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Nov 05, 2010, 10:42 PM
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Gorilla Stab revisited


Encouraged by my last experiment I decided to try it again. This time I weighed it along the way. The balsa is 1/32 because it's what I had on hand and since it is too thin to use I decided to try adding color. I waxed the mylars with two coats of carnauba and polished them after they glazed over. Then I dusted off my trusty Iwata and mixed up some Auto Air transparent orange. Auto Air is a water based paint, I use it because I paint indoors and it doesn't stink like solvent based paint. I also have a good color selection from my RC car painting days. Anyway, I misted the mylars with several coats of orange allowing sufficient flash time. Once I got the coverage I was looking for (I really had no idea) I hit the mylars with a hair dryer to be sure they were fully dried. Then I dripped a little bit of Gorilla PU on the mylars followed by the 1.4 oz glass and a good rolling out. Then I laid the mylars on the stab and put the thing in the bag and pulled 20lbs. About four hours later I pulled it out to see what I had. I am very pleased with the finish. Since I used a transparent paint, you can still see every bit of the wood grain. It looks more like a shiny dye. I still can't get over how nice these parts look, the photos just don't capture it. I also and pretty impressed with how hard the finish is, I have never been able to get epoxy to finish this hard. I also dig the very short cure times.

The weights were as follows:
Stab alone, 2.3 grams
Stab with carbon tow, 2.9 grams
Finished stab, 5.8 grams

So the finish weighed 2.9 grams. I honestly have no idea if this is light or not so any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I also still don't have no idea how light I can go with the glue application. I try to keep the glued up glass just bearly tacky but enough to be even. I almost think I can go even dryer. I guess I need to try.



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Nov 06, 2010, 08:41 AM
Red Merle SJ VIII
Curtis Suter's Avatar
Phenomenal!

I can't wait to see a set of wings.
Curtis
Nov 06, 2010, 08:47 AM
Composites Kid
Alex.Schweig's Avatar
Wow... those are some beautiful DLG/HLG tail feathers.

I think I'm gonna do the same for my Topsky DLG's tails!

Great contrast between the orange and the black tows... And it's nice how you can see the wood's grain.

-Alex
Nov 06, 2010, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grouch
... I waxed the mylars with two coats of carnauba and polished them after they glazed over. Then I dusted off my trusty Iwata and mixed up some Auto Air transparent orange.
Looks great. Dumb question, but since the gorilla + lightweight glass is so transparent, why not just spray the balsa directly with AA paint color & mylar press the glue/glass on top of that? Maybe you would have to use opaque vs transparaent for deeper color, but would seem less fuss than lightly misting the paint on the waxed mylar? (Im impressed that the color is so even because there is no solvent in AA to slightly etch the wax & flash off like solvent based reverse-coat paint).
Nov 06, 2010, 03:20 PM
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I would think the balsa would raise it's pores and the finish would look weird. Painting the mylars isn't really fussy. Since I use water based paint, you just have to build the layers a lot slower to allow the water to evaporate out of the paint. If you try to hog it on you get little water ring looking things in your finish. A solvent based paint out of an airbrush dries almost instantly allowing many coats in a short period of time but from some of the stuff I have sen other people do, it looks like it beads up on the waxed mylar giving a dotted result. Maybe it was in the way they put it on or the type of paint they were using. I use to paint lexan bodies and they require the water based paint so I am kinda used to it anyway. I have one in the bag right now testing a slightly more complicated color design. Hopefully it will turn out the way I want it too. Thanks for all the compliments guys!
Nov 06, 2010, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grouch
A solvent based paint out of an airbrush dries almost instantly allowing many coats in a short period of time but from some of the stuff I have sen other people do, it looks like it beads up on the waxed mylar giving a dotted result. Maybe it was in the way they put it on or the type of paint they were using.
Solvent based paint on top of release agent faces the exact same issue you've described, its called beading. Like the way rain beads on a windshield. And they generally do the same process youve described - light mist coats allowing each fogged layer to set up so eventually the micro paint speckles start to bridge & the paint coat slowly turns continuous. Recent post here.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...1330315&page=2

What helps the solvent painters a bit is the light ends help bite in the waxed surface & then flash off leaving the paint speck. Also typically these paints are catalysed which speeds up curing/gelling before flowing out & causing a bead to form. Im familiar with AA paints, thats why I said Im surpised it worked so well since it has neither of these 2 properties. But the results are nice, paint is cheap. It may not have the toughness of typical paints since its mostly intended to be top-coated with some sort of protective layer, but if it works, great.
Nov 06, 2010, 04:59 PM
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I just pulled this out of the bag. The top part didn't come out quite as good as I hoped. I tried a new roller and it shed a couple balls of lint on the mylars when I was rolling out the glue. When I tried to pick them out, I ended up scratching a bit of the paint. Also I was trying for an opaque finish by backing the transparent with an opaque white. It didn't quite work but the results still look cool. For the top, after I waxed the mylar I taped it off then painted. The tape held to the wax with no problems and pulled up easily as well. All up weight is 5.8 grams without the carbon tow so the multi color paint is about the same as a single color. I just may end up buying a paint gun to lay even coats down on larger surfaces, tis is fun!

The pics are very bad but I was in a hurry and the lighting in our condo is horrible.

Top,



Bottom,

Nov 06, 2010, 06:21 PM
Life begins at transition
Nice job! Looks like you're having fun with the paint

To work out the relative weight vs epoxy, weigh the amount of glue you use. It should be approximately the same weight as the glass you've used. In this case, if the glass weighs 1.5g, you're doing very well!
Nov 06, 2010, 07:53 PM
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alexhaben's Avatar
I like it!

Grouch, how did you mask out the waves to have the nice pinstripe around it? I tried to pinstripe my designs but my hands are just too shaky to get it right.

Glad to see another waterbased paint guy here, I'm using the wicked colors line. If you haven't tried it its pretty good, and about 1/2 the price of auto air. Supposedly its the same paint as the AA's autoborne line just packaged cheaper for the T Shirt guys who use a lot more paint.
Nov 06, 2010, 09:39 PM
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The pin strip was easy. It is a fine line masking tape I laid out in that design. Then I taped off the area that is orange. I painted the green inside the scallop design then filled it with yellow. Then I removed the tape where the orange is and painted it. The last thing to come off was the fine line making tape, which I painted yellow and used the over spray to fill out the orange. I have been wanting to try out Wicked but I have a ton of AA already so I just grabbed it. The next round of paint purchases will be Wicked as I have heard nothing but good things.

As far as the shake goes, lets just say I ain't no Cool Hand Luke. There is zero free handing A/B going on, it's all tape and fade. I was even using an Iwata Revolution with a .5 tip to give you an idea, I left my HP's in their boxes for this job.
Nov 07, 2010, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grouch
I have been wanting to try out Wicked but I have a ton of AA already so I just grabbed it. The next round of paint purchases will be Wicked as I have heard nothing but good things.
FWIW Ive only sprayed a bit of Wicked but its very nice. It flows smooth & lays down nice fine mist, supposedly because of the finer grain size? It requires its flavour of reducer W100 (which is supposedly 4011) but is more tolerant of higher % if thats ever an issue. For the purposes of what you're doing it should be the same or better.

But, the only thing I found is Wicked is most like AA 'transparents', NOT like AA opaque.This aspect isnt really stated in any of Wicked literature as such, but seems to be well known in the airbrushing community. If you want opaque coverage, Wicked seems to require quite a bit more buildup by comparison, almost to the point of looking blotchy. Of course this is color depandant, light colors are worse.

Looks good, keep the pics coming.
Nov 07, 2010, 12:04 PM
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Thanks Grouch for the very informative post. I'll have to pick up some of that thin blue striping tape and give it a go.

ptxman, I whole hearty agree on the wicked's opaques being pretty transparent. I usually back all my color paint jobs with white or black to make them pop, then you can use less "color" buildup. Even the light values (e.g yellow) work pretty good with the backing strategy.

I'm going to try on my next paint job to have half the plane backed with white and half with black and see what changes in the tones of the paint job. Hopefully it will look cool, but since I'm painting on a black mold face I don't really know until its done.
Nov 07, 2010, 02:03 PM
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Alex, hold off on the tape for a bit. When I get back home I will look at the stuff I have and tell you who makes it. I think I ordered it from TCP Global but can't remember off the top of my head. It is yellow in color and it's a low tack. Sme of the automotive blue stuff I tried is too sticky it's also too thick so it builds paint next to the tape line.

Edit: here is the stuff I use, it works very well

http://www.tcpglobal.com/kustomshop/ktape.aspx

ptx, good to know about Wicked being almost transparent. Non of the art stores around here carry it so I' have to order it and that gets expensive. The AA and reducer can be bought locally so I can try out new colors when ever I want. BTW, I do like the transparent paints for several reasons. Most of which is their flexibility. Back it white for bright colors or back it silver and you get more of a metallic look. Also transparents make color fades easy as it comes. Another cool thing about the transparents is a painted and bagged stab would match perfectly with a built up wing covered with transparent iron on covering.
Last edited by grouch; Nov 07, 2010 at 02:36 PM.
Nov 08, 2010, 05:59 PM
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I'll have to pick up some of that yellow tape. Maybe the auto paint stores have it locally.

If you want to get good prices/no shipping for the wicked try dickblick.com or coastairbrush.com. They usually have specials for free/discounted shipping and decent sales on the paint itself. Plus I think coast will match the lowest posted price you can find.
Nov 08, 2010, 08:03 PM
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I have ordered plenty from Coast in the past, maybe I'll have to place an order for the florescent Wicked set they have. I think when I do my wing it may just have to be bright. How about a stain glass looking thing with neon colors and black outlines and a black bottom? Sounds too cool to me.


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