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Nov 02, 2010, 03:24 PM
Dave Register
okiesoar's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkallev
Just sort the physical score cards ... you know, MANUALLY?

tk
That would have worked. The scoring would then need to be done manually since the program I was using would have required manual editing on several linked worksheets (Dan Tandberg's from ASA). That would have been a significant effort on the field in the wind. Don's program would have worked fine and could have been manually edited between rounds to do seeded MOM. I believe he's looking at incorporating that option in an upcoming revision (we're learning some of this stuff as we go along). The CD asked to set up for 6 rounds and Don's program (at the time) did 5. Could have done 6 with re-starting a new program and carrying over, etc. So I went with Dan's that pre-seeds and links a lot of information in several different worksheets. Since we only flew 3 rounds, in hindsight Don's would have been great. I didn't know about the seeded MOM until Sunday at the field and had kind of a 'deer-in-the-headlights' moment trying to figure out how to do it. Sorry.

Meanwhile, great input from 'Frederick_r'. Thank you very much. Similar thinking by a number of folks in the US. I believe a lightweight e-Supra is just now becoming available and could be of keen interest. Maybe when that one is up and running the builder can report in one of the forums?

I'm trying to put together a table with more details of the winning planes from the 2010 US contests. But please keep in mind there are a lot of other designs flying very well out there. For instance, the Electron has been quite popular and successful in e-soaring but didn't have the fortune of placing at a US contest this year.

I'd like to ask folks to provide information on the power systems (motor, prop, ESC, battery, spinner) they've flown in the US as well as some indication where the equipment can be obtained. My sense is there is interest in the task but some uncertainty about proven power packages that will do the job for different size/weight planes.

I will be happy to provide details on the SunDancer series as soon as I catch up with the 'honey-dos' around here. E-AVAs seem to be proven commodtities for this task. Is there an e-AVA pilot that would be willing to describe a power system that works for that plane in this task?

Thanks very much,

- Dave R
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Nov 02, 2010, 04:14 PM
Registered User
Here is a List of E-glider that Im looking into getting. I already own a radian. If I have missed one of the list please private message me a link and i will keep this post updated. i think This will help the New pilots like myself with some leg work done. Also maybe a Great place to keep track of what places in the ALES..
Also could we rate these some how ?
New Glider List
http://secure.hobbyzone.com/PKZ5475....FQgKKgodAWLGOQ (foam)
http://www.rc711.com/shop/aure-ep-gl...or-p-2543.html
http://www.arthobby.com/index.php?pa...ry=50&item=291
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=3034
http://www.bananahobby.com/1985.html (foam)
http://www.hobbyclub.com/product_inf...roducts_id=784
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=5428
http://atlantahobby.com/store/pc/Thr...ns-26p6659.htm
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=8257
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=5434
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=5481
http://www.arthobby.com/index.php?pa...ry=50&item=292
http://www.hobbyclub.com/product_inf...oducts_id=1133
Last edited by Krazykayak75; Nov 02, 2010 at 06:18 PM.
Nov 02, 2010, 04:29 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Well Christmas arrived early and I found this eSupra Ultralight on my doorstep. I purchased it not so much because I thought it would be the uber ALES plane, but because I like flying my Supra gliders so much. I will be starting an abbreviated building blog here in RC Groups and a more detailed one on the Yahoo ALES group (RCALES). Keep posted if you are interested.

Happy Landings,

Don
Nov 02, 2010, 04:37 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkallev
Just sort the physical score cards ... you know, MANUALLY?

tk
Tom,

The programs that are being included with the "kit" are sort of intended to facilitate a "contest-in-the-box" setup. Many groups, especially those in your neck of the woods are fully familiar with running Seeded MOM contests and certainly don't need this kind of help.

But many individuals and groups have never participated in any kind of MOM contest, let alone a Seeded MOM contest. I hope that some of the groups that may be interested in this may not have put on any kind of soaring contest at all. Without any intention of displaying any latent sexism, these programs are designed to allow the smarter half who might be hanging around (wives and/or girlfriends) to handle the scoring in a way which will keep the action going.

Happy Landings,

Don

(And no, my wife doesn't read this stuff)
Nov 02, 2010, 04:51 PM
AMA 7224
Leadchucker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by okiesoar
I'd like to ask folks to provide information on the power systems (motor, prop, ESC, battery, spinner) they've flown in the US as well as some indication where the equipment can be obtained. My sense is there is interest in the task but some uncertainty about proven power packages that will do the job for different size/weight planes.
I'll start if you don't mind.

Model: Top ModelCZ Avia-Full house sailplane with V-tail
Construction:Fibreglass fuselage, white gel coated with internal CF stringer on both sides ,composite wing and stab of built up balsa main construction with CF leading edges and CF spars.
Covering:Red and yellow transparent Oracover
AUW: 42 oz.
Wing span:98.5"
Wing area:713 sq.in.
Wing loading:8.5 oz.
Airfoil: MH-32
Motor: PJS (CZ) Hotline 1300 (32mm dia.)
ESC:Shulze fut-12.46e 50 amp
Prop: Aeronaut CAM 10 x 6
Watts: 450
Spinner:MP Jet 30 mm
Radio: Hitec Optic 6 with Optima 7 RX,2.4 ghz
Servos: 6, two each for v-tail and two each for ailerons-Hitec HS-45HB AGTT Feather High Speed/Torque Servo ,2 each for flaps-Hitec HS-82MG Standard Metal Gear Micro Servo
Altitude Switch:Soaring Circuits CAM
Battery:Flightmax 2200 maH 3S 30C LiPo
Notes: Motor control on TX switch for off/on operation, 200 meter altitude reached in approximately 20 seconds (actually climb rate in FPM unknown),sailplane and motor related items purchased from ICARE,flown at Open Soar ALES Contest in June 2010
Latest blog entry: 1938 Rambler build
Nov 02, 2010, 05:45 PM
Dave Register
okiesoar's Avatar
Thread OP
Leadchucker - thank you very much for getting this started. I believe these are pics of your plane (from Polecat discussion - 1st picture is yours, 2nd was snapped by Randy - hope it was OK to swipe 'em and re-post here).
Nov 02, 2010, 06:29 PM
Dave Register
okiesoar's Avatar
Thread OP

SunDancer2/3


Whoa - that Supra looks nice!

Model: OkieSoar/Polecat SunDancer2 (/3) Poly-flaperon wing with V-tail (servos in tail)
Construction: WindancerII pod (glass/carbon/kevlar) with Polecat DLG boom. Bagged wing and and tails. Color molded on – white top, black (or Navy blue) bottom with fluorescent orange tip trim
AUW: 20.5oz (SD2) ; 23.5oz (SD3)
Wing span: 86” (SD2) ; 88” (SD3)
Wing area: 503 sq.in. (SD2) ; 617 sq.in. (SD3)
Wing loading: 5.9oz/sq.ft. ; 5.5 oz/sq.ft. (SD3)
Airfoils: AG12 (thickened) root; AG12 mid-span break; AG13 poly break; AG14 tip. Total washout -1.25 deg.
Motor: MotrolFly 2215-1150
ESC: MotrolFly 20A (SD2); MotrolFly 30A (SD3) ; both with BEC
Prop: Aeronaut CAM 9.5x5
Watts: 210
Spinner: BB 30mm (SD2) ; Low profile FXJ type spinner – Vladimir’s Models, 30mm with 0 deg blade angle (SD3)
Radio: JR9303 with Spektrum 2.4 conversion. AR700 receivers
Servos: 4 total. 2 Dymond60 flaperon servos. 2 Dymond4.7 V-tail servos. Tail servos are mounted in the tail with a 4-wire harness to the radio. SD3 uses RDS in the tail.
Altitude Switch: Mostly CAM. BASIC flown at ASA. Shread flown in practice.
Battery: Hyperion 3S, 900maH, 45C or ThunderPower 3S, 850maH, 45C.
Notes: Motor control off/on only and uses the Gear channel. 200 meter altitude reached in 20 seconds. Own designed and built. Poly-flaperon configuration chosen for roll stability at altitude but uses left stick turns for flat low-level lift. Flaperons are cut at 30% (SD2) and 40% (SD3) of chord in the main panel only. Reflex setting for launch (~ 3mm up), Camber setting for light air (~ 3mm down), several coupling schemes – basically the same as a DLG setup. Flaps drop ~ 45deg for effective glide path control on landing. Wing is one piece for weight savings and strength. Wing span is determined by the maximum length I can fit in the back of my truck. There are 2 SD2s out there (mine and Denny’s – flew at Feb ASA, Polecat, Muncie and Oct ASA. SD3 flew at Dayton).

Picture is the SunDancer 2 (sorry about the bipe - only clear picture I have right now). SD3 is similar with RDS tail and orange tip trim.

MotrolFly equipment ordered through Denny. Props, BB spinners and ThunderPower batteries from Esprit Models. FXJ low profile spinner available from Kenendy Composites. Hyperion batteries and chargers ordered from allE RC.

- Dave R
Nov 02, 2010, 06:53 PM
Registered User
David Forbes's Avatar
I'm completely new to electric, and have been flying DLGs almost exclusively. I just purchased my first motor (480 size outrunner), and speed control (40A), (2200 3S Lipo), (10x6 folding prop) to be installed in an inherited Electra.

Question, where should I assign the throttle?

The left stick is in the muscle memory as flaps, so that ain't gonna work. Perhaps the 3 position switch I normally use for flight phase? Maybe a different 3 position? Or two? Slider?

I'd like to hear some suggestions. TX is an ATX SD10G, so it's pretty versatile.

Thanks,
Dave
Nov 02, 2010, 07:29 PM
You looking at me?
Ed Franz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Forbes
I'm completely new to electric, and have been flying DLGs almost exclusively. I just purchased my first motor (480 size outrunner), and speed control (40A), (2200 3S Lipo), (10x6 folding prop) to be installed in an inherited Electra.

Question, where should I assign the throttle?

The left stick is in the muscle memory as flaps, so that ain't gonna work. Perhaps the 3 position switch I normally use for flight phase? Maybe a different 3 position? Or two? Slider?

I'd like to hear some suggestions. TX is an ATX SD10G, so it's pretty versatile.

Thanks,
Dave
On the spring loaded switch on the top left side. That's where I put my motor control on the SD-10G.

Ed
Nov 02, 2010, 07:47 PM
Registered User
dion9146's Avatar
I'm going to build a new fuselage for this one and hopefully get involved in an ALES contest or two next season. Sorry, lots of TBDs right now, but this is going to be fun!

Model: Highly modified wood wing RES Smooth Genie Pro (one of a kind!)
Construction: wood, fiberglass, more wood, and lots of wood - and CF spars for full pedal winch launches
AUW: current config 62 ozs; target with new fuselage 49 ozs.
Wing span: 132
Wing area: 1150 sq in
Wing loading: 7.75 oz/sq.ft. / target 6.1 oz/sq ft
Airfoils: SA 7036 thinned to 8.7%, transitioning to the full SD7003 by the
end of the third panel. There is no twist washout
Motor: TBD
ESC: TBD
Prop: TBD
Watts: TBD
Spinner: TBD
Radio: JR XP652 Hitec Freedom 9s auto receiver (72 mhz till I drop!)
Servos: 3 total. 2 HS-225MGs for the flying stab and rudder, 1 HS-55 for the spoiler
Altitude Switch: TBD
Battery: TBD

Dion
Nov 02, 2010, 08:05 PM
Soaring Circuits
rcbrust's Avatar
Guys, some of the models flown at Denny's are listed in his thread starting around post #305.

Randy
Nov 02, 2010, 08:40 PM
Registered User
John Lueke's Avatar
I have a number of electric powered sailplanes, the oldest is an Ultra Mk IV from 1986 on its fourth propussulsion system, up to an Art Hobby Hi-Aspect, and a Sky E 1.7M. But I have mostly been flying a Radian.
I started "Project Radian" early this year to see how many classes in the US Electric Nats that a Radian could play in. These being altitude limited, small outrunner class(2 cell lipo, 28x15mm motor dimension), class A LMR(any motor but 2 cell lipo limit) and class B no power system limits. So I have three interchangeable nose/firewalls for my Radian. For the small outrunner class I use a Scorpion 2212-1920 with a 10x6 prop. This is more power in than a stock Radian system and gives about 1400 ft/min rate of climb. This is also the lowest AUW for the Radian and is the best setup for altitude limited contests in light wind with some thermal activity. For class A LMR is use a Scorpion 3014-1450 on 2s with a 15x8 prop giving a 2800 ft/min rate of climb. Don't rely on the three small screws to hold the nose on at this power level! Some strapping tape is required. Same system is used for class B LMR, but it can't compete with the 6000+ ft/min rate of climb for the high end planes in that class. At the Nats with light winds and thermals, the 2212-1920 worked well for the altitude limited and small outrunner classes,
3rd and 2nd places respectively. For class A(3014-1450), the weather changed and the wind was higher and it was necessary to get a good distance upwind to catch some wave lift to make task time. The unballasted Radian could not get out there even though it climbed as well as the other planes. At the Dayton ALES contest, I used the 3014-1450 system but added a steel ballast rod(10oz) to the wing tube. During the last round that we flew, the winds were above 15mph and the Radian was able to handle it and able to penetrate upwind without losing a lot of altitude. The high power propulsion system let me get upwind at a lower climb angle before hitting the 200 m cutoff. This was good enough to get to the slope/wave lift and get respectable but not winning flight times. So the Radian can be a cost effective entry into a number of competition classes, but it has its limits when the wind picks up.
Nov 02, 2010, 09:10 PM
AMA 7224
Leadchucker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Forbes
Question, where should I assign the throttle?

The left stick is in the muscle memory as flaps, so that ain't gonna work. Perhaps the 3 position switch I normally use for flight phase? Maybe a different 3 position? Or two? Slider?

I'd like to hear some suggestions. TX is an ATX SD10G, so it's pretty versatile.

Thanks,
Dave
Mine is on the gear switch just above the throttle on the Optic 6
Latest blog entry: 1938 Rambler build
Nov 02, 2010, 11:12 PM
Registered User

Reichard Maxx F5J 2.0m 20oz AUW


Gents:

Please check the HobbyClub Blog.
We've up-loaded some information on this highly competitive ARF competition model,

rgds,

Alberto
Nov 03, 2010, 12:48 AM
Launch high. Fly low.
Thanks for the work and info, Dave!
I'm glad that e-gliders are getting more acceptance.

Jun C.


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