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Oct 17, 2010, 11:54 PM
Alarm Bells Softening!
Big Foot 48's Avatar
Discussion

Japan In Decline: America's Future?


A sobering look at Japan, and the years of economic problems, excessive government spending, and a discouraged population.

I'm pessimisstic about America as I see a similar future for us. Having a President continuing to bash private business, while promoting government growth, has lead to the longest recession in modern history. Without a change in direction we may well follow Japan into the long list of failed countries.
Quote:
Few nations in recent history have seen such a striking reversal of economic fortune as Japan. The original Asian success story, Japan rode one of the great speculative stock and property bubbles of all time in the 1980s to become the first Asian country to challenge the long dominance of the West.

But the bubbles popped in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and Japan fell into a slow but relentless decline that neither enormous budget deficits nor a flood of easy money has reversed. For nearly a generation now, the nation has been trapped in low growth and a corrosive downward spiral of prices, known as deflation, in the process shriveling from an economic Godzilla to little more than an afterthought in the global economy.

Now, as the United States and other Western nations struggle to recover from a debt and property bubble of their own, a growing number of economists are pointing to Japan as a dark vision of the future. Even as the Federal Reserve chairman, Ben S. Bernanke, prepares a fresh round of unconventional measures to stimulate the economy, there are growing fears that the United States and many European economies could face a prolonged period of slow growth or even, in the worst case, deflation, something not seen on a sustained basis outside Japan since the Great Depression.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/wo...a/17japan.html
Oct 17, 2010, 11:57 PM
Alarm Bells Softening!
Big Foot 48's Avatar
Look at this scam the Japanese use to defraud lenders. Does anyone doubt this is happening or will happen here?
Quote:
Yoshinori Kaiami was a real estate agent in Osaka, where, like the rest of Japan, land prices have been falling for most of the past 19 years. Mr. Kaiami said business was tough. There were few buyers in a market that was virtually guaranteed to produce losses, and few sellers, because most homeowners were saddled with loans that were worth more than their homes.

Some years ago, he came up with an idea to break the gridlock. He created a company that guides homeowners through an elaborate legal subterfuge in which they erase the original loan by declaring personal bankruptcy, but continue to live in their home by “selling” it to a relative, who takes out a smaller loan to pay its greatly reduced price.
Oct 18, 2010, 12:31 AM
Fly Runaway Fans
I'm quite alarmed too, Foot. Never in my wildest H.G. Wells sci-fi imagination did I think we'd end up where we are.

But neither, I spoze, did Romans prior to ~400AD. Or Spain, or Portugal, or Britain, or Napoleon, or Anastasi, or Egypt, or Greece, or Sumeria.

Remember the 'good old days' when everything from Japan was as good as it got? They're just like us now. A few giant industrials (Toshiba, GE, Mitsubishi, Boeing, Toyota, Ford) that still work, and everything else is either in receivership or offshored to China.

How in the world did we do this to ourselves in such a short time?
Oct 18, 2010, 02:33 AM
sensitive artsy type
Treetop's Avatar
Interesting. Fear of the future, a very telling phrase that.
Oct 18, 2010, 02:55 AM
Suspended Account
Come to Waikiki,
Watch 3000 new Japanese tourists a day dumping out C notes and filling up Louis Vutton bags with god knows what. The reigns of power have not slipped out of anyone's hands.


8 years of steady Kool-Aid drinking ...listening to the "Bush is the worst" tapes have not affected anything but your own mind.


.....all that Kool-Aid behind you and a fresh batch of Chicago flavor for now!! hasn't changed anything either. This new guy is just like the old guy, Just another putz.. just another brick on the wall.

Look at the world it is just like it was in 1950..

The people making all the cheap stuff look the same as then.

Germans are making great cars that are to expensive to own and fix.

Somebody big is selling the idea that the world as we know it will be over quickly.

The Russians are lying to everyone and the Russian people are moving to the USA as fast as they can.

The Yankees are in the playoffs

de ja voox
Oct 18, 2010, 03:38 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eljimb0 View Post
Come to Waikiki,
Watch 3000 new Japanese tourists a day dumping out C notes and filling up Louis Vutton bags with god knows what. The reigns of power have not slipped out of anyone's hands.


8 years of steady Kool-Aid drinking ...listening to the "Bush is the worst" tapes have not affected anything but your own mind.


.....all that Kool-Aid behind you and a fresh batch of Chicago flavor for now!! hasn't changed anything either. This new guy is just like the old guy, Just another putz.. just another brick on the wall.

Look at the world it is just like it was in 1950..

The people making all the cheap stuff look the same as then.

Germans are making great cars that are to expensive to own and fix.

Somebody big is selling the idea that the world as we know it will be over quickly.

The Russians are lying to everyone and the Russian people are moving to the USA as fast as they can.

The Yankees are in the playoffs

de ja voox
Its not at all what it was like in the 50`s
In the fifties the USA had a great economy just after the war
The USA still had respect from most of the world and the acid heads of the 60`s hadnt made there way to become decision makers
Oct 18, 2010, 05:21 AM
Closed Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by registerwing View Post
....the acid heads of the 60`s hadnt made there way to become decision makers
....or LTUP posters.
Oct 18, 2010, 06:54 AM
On the Edge of Space
dLdV's Avatar
At least we don't have as far to fall. As ridiculous as our stock and real estate bubbles were (are?), the Japanese ones were much more inflated.
Oct 18, 2010, 07:00 AM
Registered User
peterp1964's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treetop View Post
Interesting. Fear of the future, a very telling phrase that.
when the shysters have run out of things for you to fear, what's left but
"fear the future" ?
Oct 18, 2010, 09:58 AM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
Fear Global Climate Change?
Oct 18, 2010, 01:28 PM
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usta Bee View Post
....or LTUP posters.
++

(I wish I could get away with posting that!)
Oct 18, 2010, 01:49 PM
Random Pic #23982
Indiana_Geoff's Avatar
Japan is worth looking at, but there are some huge differences that make the US and Japan incomparable.

Japan has an aging population, declining birthrate with no meaningful immigration. It has a population problem.

Japan has extremely limited land resources.

Japan has limited natural resources.

Japan saves too much.

It's markets are largely closed to foreign competition by actions of the government and it's people.
Oct 18, 2010, 09:20 PM
Registered User
And wealth is much more spread among the populace than in the USA


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