A little bit of F3B history - Page 13 - RC Groups
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May 22, 2017, 01:35 PM
UAS Test Pilot
SpeedMaster's Avatar
Hi Reto,

It is in fact an Avant Butterfly from Jaro Müller with the one piece wing...

Kjell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RetoF3X
Hi Kjell

I take a guess:

The fuselage looks like an "Avant Butterfly" from Jaro Mueller (one of the first commercially available moulded planes). That plane also had a one piece wing (what a pain...) But the wing shape does not match. Maybe a later version?

Or is it a copy of Ralf Decker's NoName aircraft?

I heard Espen has a nice collection of vintage F3B planes.

Best,
Reto
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May 22, 2017, 03:26 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedMaster
Hi Reto,

It is in fact an Avant Butterfly from Jaro Müller with the one piece wing...

Kjell.
Actually, the wing shape does match the original Avant. There should be LE break at 810 mm from center of the wing. The root chord - 240 mm, at 810mm -220 mm, at 1360 mm - 180 mm plus 90 mm tip. 2900 mm wing span
May 22, 2017, 04:57 PM
F3B and F3K
RetoF3X's Avatar
Hi HPdrifter

Do you have an Avant or a technical drawing you could share?

Maybe there were multiple iterations of the Avant Butterfly? The one I have seen in the early 90ies had TNT wingtips, which where highly popular at the time (see also here under "TNT Randbogen": http://www.aerodesign.de/aero/randbogen.htm)

@Kjell: do you have more mystery planes from Espen's hangar?

Reto
May 23, 2017, 05:52 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetoF3X
Hi HPdrifter

Do you have an Avant or a technical drawing you could share?

Maybe there were multiple iterations of the Avant Butterfly? The one I have seen in the early 90ies had TNT wingtips, which where highly popular at the time (see also here under "TNT Randbogen": http://www.aerodesign.de/aero/randbogen.htm)

@Kjell: do you have more mystery planes from Espen's hangar?

Reto
Hi Reto,
yes, I do have Avant's 3-view drawing and some tech info on what was involved to make it possible. Unfortunately, it's in Slovakian language. The Avant (full name is "MAB-2000 Avant") was a team effort of about 10 people under leadership of Jaro M. The project had started in 1984 and was finished in middle of 1985. The molds were eventually sold to Hungary. Whatever had come out of those molds in Hungary was called "Avant Butterfly". It's possible that people in Hungary made a new wing mold and that could be what you have seen. However, it's been a while and I might be wrong.
Last edited by hpdrifter; May 26, 2017 at 01:58 PM.
Jul 16, 2017, 01:22 PM
Balsa breaks better
Thermaler's Avatar
Okay guys, take me back . . .
From the 1st World Championship, who can share pictures of the following guys WITH their plans. . .
What other info can you share?
To here from these guys would be great!!!

Frikkie Roos - Jonathan
Joris Tenholt - Alba 2
Sean Bannister - Algebra VI
Mike O'Reilly - Altos
Stephan Smith - Own Design
Nevellie Mattingly - Own Design
Friedholm Schiborr - Own Design
Bene van Leeuen - Bommel IV
Peter Keim - Chaimara
Willem van der Meulen - Kwibus
Paolo Casadel - Vagabound
Albert Saager - Own Design
Franco Givone - Own Design
Eugenio Pagliano - Vevi 75
Andre Gouverneur - Own Design

Next question . . .

What is a Brillant and how does it different from a Brilliant V??

Joe
Founder of the R/C Soaring History thread . . . .
Jul 24, 2017, 04:50 AM
Registered User
Hi,

i have sent an emal to Eugenio, is sorry, no pictures ... but he found the design and a picture of rudder.

Regards

Massimo

www.f5j.it
https://www.facebook.com/F5JItalia/


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermaler
Okay guys, take me back . . .
From the 1st World Championship, who can share pictures of the following guys WITH their plans. . .
What other info can you share?
To here from these guys would be great!!!

Frikkie Roos - Jonathan
Joris Tenholt - Alba 2
Sean Bannister - Algebra VI
Mike O'Reilly - Altos
Stephan Smith - Own Design
Nevellie Mattingly - Own Design
Friedholm Schiborr - Own Design
Bene van Leeuen - Bommel IV
Peter Keim - Chaimara
Willem van der Meulen - Kwibus
Paolo Casadel - Vagabound
Albert Saager - Own Design
Franco Givone - Own Design
Eugenio Pagliano - Vevi 75
Andre Gouverneur - Own Design

Next question . . .

What is a Brillant and how does it different from a Brilliant V??

Joe
Founder of the R/C Soaring History thread . . . .
Jul 24, 2017, 11:02 PM
F3B and F3K
RetoF3X's Avatar
Hi Massimo

Thanks for contacting Mr. Pagliano! If he has more details to share, like the design goals, that would be very interesting.

Fascinating details, a double hingeline rudder. I wonder why each flap has two linkages (it appears they were not used as ailerons, as they are connected to a single flap servo)?



Best,
Reto
Yesterday, 12:19 PM
Mark LSF # 3792
Looks like the flap on the rudder is passive, interesting. Bet that took some fiddling to get right!
Yesterday, 12:50 PM
Registered User
My guess is the two linkages were to increase stiffness of the surface. Maybe had a flutter problem with only one horn on such a long control surface.

Tom
Yesterday, 04:26 PM
Balsa breaks better
Thermaler's Avatar
Thank You Massimo, tell Eugenio Thank You for me.


Joe


Quote:
Originally Posted by mverardi
Hi,

i have sent an emal to Eugenio, is sorry, no pictures ... but he found the design and a picture of rudder.

Regards

Massimo

www.f5j.it
https://www.facebook.com/F5JItalia/
Yesterday, 09:07 PM
Registered User

Cool design...


The outer surface is passive, but it's linkage is permanently attached to the right side of the fin. There by creating substantial camber when deflected either way.

Looks like the wing is set up for camber changing with the central servo. The plan shows a launch or landing camber of some 35 deg, as well as 8 deg of reflex.

Ballast loaded in the wing at cg.
With the wing spec'd for 2 different densities of expanded polystyrene too.

Really cool stuff!
What year was this model from? It may be an exciting candidate for Nostalgia.
Last edited by alexhallmalta; Yesterday at 09:16 PM.


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