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Sep 15, 2010, 04:22 PM
Visitor from Reality
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A Lazy Approach to a Speedy Bee?


Alright, I can't resist. Even if all I've done is cut out some 1/2" x 1/16" balsa and laminate up a couple of Lazy Bee wingtip bows, I gotta start this thread as the other three Bee-ish threads are getting confusing at times.

The state of the art, or is that the art of the State?

After not flying much last year, we upped and moved to Chicago after 15 years just outside of the Disaster of Columbia. For seven months, give or take, our life as a whole was on a hanger in a corner as we looked for a new place while living in what we referred to as the 'corporate closet'. Yes, there's a recession, yadda, yadda, you'd think folk would fall over someone who wanted to buy a house... Nope, not really.

But now we're squooshed into 2/3rds of the square footage of our last pad, our garage and ample storage therein reduced to a parking spot in the building's garage. Thanks to Spousal Unit's wonderful nature, I have a bedroom to play in, though it now is not only the Balsa Dust Factory, it's also the bike park - we have three of them between us and they ain't the sort to get tossed into the front garden when not ridden.

Instead of my usual 'filing system' - spread everything out one deep, so I can see it all, I've had to put up shelves, sort stuff out and other non-model-productive projects.

So, what happened to the concept of firstly building the ten or so plans I've drawn up in my virtual exile from practical aeromodelling?

No idea, beyond three threads hereabouts on Clancy Aviation designs. Well, that and opening a box labled 'model parts' to find a 'kit' for a Speedy Bee!

I go back a bit with Bees - go look up:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220160

and:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397223

The latter link, from 1997, was my second Speedy Bee - the previous one got all oily and smelly and was sold to an enthusiast who wouldn't give up until I pulled my receiver out and sold her it, lock stock and ignition key!

The Speedy Bee was a later Clancy Aviation design. Though it flew on much the same power as the Lazy Bee and had the same wing area, it was aimed at looking, well, speedier. Sorry...

It also had a more simplistic structure. Andy had been pestered over this one by a crowd who wanted slinkier looks and a faster building structure. I mean, the Lazy Bee had laminated wingtip, elevator and rudder outlines and you really had to let them dry on a laminating jig OVERNIGHT

The Speedy's replacement framework thus would assemble using CA and little patience, while using around twice as much wood in an easier to break framework.

So, there's the first alteration to the design. I've seen a Speedy Bee with laminated tips and it looks better too, so there I go.

My 'kit' - it's so 'early production' that Andy didn't send it in a proper kit box, but I have all the die-cut parts - the early Clancy Aviation standard - and the four sheet plan. With a 'proper' kit box, I'd have it on EBay by now and probably make enough to scratch build a couple of dozen copies, all powered with gold plated outrunners .

Unlike the early Speedy's, which mostly had geared ferrites, I shall be using an economically priced outrunner on 3S LiPos - thus instantly dropping the battery weight from around the 16 ounces of the 8 cell pack of NiCads my first Speedy Bee flew on, to around four or five ounces.

Another standard of that day was a central standard sized aileron servo waggling the ailerons via pushrods and bellcranks. That's staying back in history, as a pair of Hitec HS85s or thereabouts get the job. The Speedy had an oddity here - the aileron pushrods came out of the top of the wing. This wasn't quite as random as it looked - it dropped right onto the Lazy Bee floats, but was much lower slung than the Lazy. Which was better for having a lower vertical CG for water landings.

If the pushrods had come out the wing bottoms, water would have gotten in around the pushrods, no doubt, so putting them atop the wing prevented picking up odd extra weight and making one's structure all soggy. So, I might just stick with it and have mine exit the wing top - it's not hard to arrange.

Next amount of serious spending is to figure out a motor. No point in going crazy - Bee's, speedy or not, don't actually go fast and I have a thing about flying involving such as 'lift' and 'forwards motion', so I don't need enough power to turn it into an odd shaped jelliwobbler. Mine will be a lot lighter than a stock 'kit' Speedy Bee too, so I reckon 200W max will haul it around more than adequately.

As my favourite motor 'calculation' involves using something someone else has tried out , any suggestions gratefully accepted here.

Okay, off to do something serious for a while. Back later with the first images.

Regards

Dereck
'To Bee, or Not to Bee - what a silly question!'
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Sep 15, 2010, 04:44 PM
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TexasClouds's Avatar
subscribed!

The fella with the transparent blue 40" lazy bee is using this motor and seems pleased: HeadsUp 3530-11

I happen to have that motor laying around...and am tempted to Build a Speedy Bee with it too.

~250 watts on a 10x5E prop with 1800mah 3s sounds appealing to me...I would try to get the AUW 25-30 oz if possible. That is just my guess...I've never (fl)owned one.

You may never need the extra power for regular flight...but having it on tap is great in sticky situations and BIG loops.

Lazer Works sells the short kit as a Speedee Bee. $51.17

RCM also sells the plans (#1218) if anyone is interested. $21.00

On the Bee Plans Thread, I can't find I full size copy of the plans.
Sep 15, 2010, 04:49 PM
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TexasClouds's Avatar
this video shows the motor specs he is using: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=377


AXI 2820-10 motor
3S 4200 lipo
11*7 prop
auw: 45 oz

It seems that the ARF versions were different size than the plans.


Speedy Bee Build Instructions.

Speedy Bee Plans (not sure if it would print scale...adobe tells me drawing is 31.65" x 6.16")
Sep 15, 2010, 05:04 PM
Visitor from Reality
Thread OP
Oddly enough, I've got an AXI 2820/10 - it's so old, it pre-dates AXI being available in the US and has to be mounted via the front end - I have a very nice light frame mount for it, but it's a pain to cowl in due to the mount overhanging the motor. It's a rock-solid motor that's already done some considerable service on several models. I've gotten onto Heads Up, that 3530-11 is out of stock right now, though the next length up is available. I need a new ESC with a BEC that'll run four servos as well - Castle Creations, I suspect.

10" prop is as much as I want to go to, though would look at 9". Suspect I will be doing something dastardly in the undercarriage regions though - getting the battery into a Speedy with its side hatch was Not Fun as I recall, the wheel and wing just got in the way.

A123 in a permanent pack charged from outside has been considered too.

Not sure of the spec of the BARF, though it almost certainly wasn't as good as the real thing. mine will be basically built around the kit plan, but much lighter than my last electric Speedy Estimate around 40oz... And that's heavier than my Lazy, so I may even better that. I have all the die-cut parts, but intend to build the fuselage by eyeball around a Lazy Bee style framework. Probably start with spruce longerons though.

Knowing me, better to go copy the plans and start from scratch... I have a Lazy Bee aileron wing kit too, which is very close to the Speedy wing. Might just chew that up some, as I don't care to retain it for posterity (unless someone offers me a lot for it. I can be bought )

D
Sep 15, 2010, 10:06 PM
Balsa Flies Better!
Hi Dereck

Long time no hear....Chicago huh? Have you checked out the U-505 yet? I've been to that town a few times, and still haven't made it. But don't you have to do an F4F to commemorate Chicago's favorite son- heck, they named the airport after him!

In terms of motors- what comes to mind is an Astro 19 swinging a 9 x 4.5. It's probably about 275 watts on a 3s lipoly pack. Probably a bit much, but aren't you going to need noseweight anyhow?

Sam
Sep 16, 2010, 01:38 AM
Blew out my flip flop
David Hogue's Avatar
I had to put a post here so I could follow along

Sep 16, 2010, 08:52 AM
Visitor from Reality
Thread OP
Hi David - just so long as you aren't feeling fenced in. Would hate to think this is a gated community...

Sam - Haven't gotten inside the museum as yet, but will have to check that sub out. Bet it's a change from the last ones I got onto. The museum is a little out of town if you've only got a few hours, but there's plenty more to do downtown. Good part is that the flying sites hereabouts are real good and not that much further out than I was used to in MD - though the trip out can be okay, getting back mid-PM is a squabble through traffic. If you pass this way again, drop me a line and maybe we can get together if your schedule's not too packed.

Astro 19 - there's a thought. I had thought of prying the geared 020 out of the Lazy Bee's nose but I'd have to re-do the whole front end of the LB to fit an outrunner. My AXI 2820 has a lot going for it - as in, I wouldn't have to buy another motor - but would require some effort to hide it and its mount. Being as its an 'antique' - maybe seven years old now - it has no back mounting capability. Have been poking around 'Heads Up RC' range, they get good things said about them and Jeff gets back quick on queries.

Right now, have a set of tailplane laminations soaking in the sink. I don't think a laminated elevator set will save pounds of weight, but it will look good under the covering. The elevators are the same shape as the LB, so I can use the cardboard laminating jig I made for that first Lazy Bee back in 1994 again.

Figure I'm now entitled to fudge things a little, so the nasal region may just stretch forwards a little for balance and aesthetic issues. There's also a cowling in the works - have got used to the hidden motor look on Bee #5, or mayBee #6.

I'm going to check into the cost of copies of my plan, as the fuselage is going to be a one-off of loosely the same shape as the kit. I found a pack of 1/8" square spruce strip in the box last night - yes, it's been a long while since I built anything - so they've got a major part coming up soon.

D
Sep 16, 2010, 09:04 AM
Visitor from Reality
Thread OP
Everyone wants photos! (and a movie, and a phone app for iSpend'ers would be good too ).

So, though hardly of a passionate nature, here's my first modification - laminated outlines for the wingtips and elevators. My original cardboard jigs, as previously mentioned, got the job after a little 2" packing tape was added - they are looking a little fuzzy these days.

I just lashed the laminations on with rubber bands. That old US stalwart, the #64, are best here as they are wider and don't squash the outer face of the laminations so bad. What I used could best be described as 'cheap' and dimpled the first wingtip. So for the second tip and the first elevator, I stuck scraps of similar width balsa under the bands to protect the outer lamination.

Not that it really matter, most of the outer lamination gets sanded away. The tasteful background to these shots is my other recent project - a 'fitted carpet' in the shop using industrial flooring tiles ($9.00 a pack of eight, from Costco's. Must be 'Made in China' at that price...).

D
Sep 16, 2010, 09:14 AM
Visitor from Reality
Thread OP
Who reads 'Flying Models'?

I think the answer is 'real aeromodellers', but maybe that's not fine by the PCP these days

Page 12 - Stevens Aeromodel's blurb on how good their new baby 'SkyBuggy' is. I quote (if I can read it and type correctly before my first coffee) :

'The SkyBuggy echoes nostalgic lines of the classic Andy Clancy Lazy Bee model line, yet features a refreshing splash of Kris Cartwright's own keen eye for design'

Lazy Bee - nostalgia? Must look up 'nostalgia'! Can it apply to something all of, what, 16 or 17 years old?

Not a bad price at $59 for the 32" span kit, be more like a refined Lady Bug with Lazy Bee looks, I reckon, which is not a bad idea. Doubt if I'll buy one, I once was inspired to try Stevens' CAP as I've long fancied another after the GP 46 powered CAP 232 I electrocuted a few years back in the last century. Shame it took so long to create an account, yadda, yadda and other diddling around to give them money. I went to bed instead in the end. Why have computers and the internet made it so hard to just buy stuff?

SkyBuggy echoes one Lazy Bee episode. When the dihedral free 'aileron' wing came out for the LB, many found that not only were the ailerons none too bright, it steered almost as well on rudder as the standard wing with dihedral on the tips.

Sure to be a SB thread hereabouts soon, looking forward to it.

Regards

Dereck
Who is now going to do something useful...

Regards

Dereck
Sep 16, 2010, 09:41 AM
Registered User
TexasClouds's Avatar
Are you using the same width/thickness wood for the Speedee laminations as called for in the Lazy specs?

I like that SA SkyBuggy too. I would have bought it 6 months ago...before I took a stab at building from Clancy's drawings. Something of this shape seems to beg for stick construction...

Still, I may get the SA one for my son to build when he gets to that age. It would be a nice starter kit.


I told you to hide this Speedee build from me...last night I printed off the manual and read it...my wife saw it and rolled her eyes.

Mark II (who has a Big Bee in hanger waiting for lights and covering) (who also doesn't 'need' any more planes)
Sep 16, 2010, 09:56 AM
Visitor from Reality
Thread OP
Pretty much LB specs here. The tailplane / elevators on the Speedy are 1/8" though the elevators are sheet in the kit, not open frame with laminated tips. My tip bows are from 1/2" sheet, on the principle of its easier to remove wood than add it later on I'll just build the middle of the wing and prop the tip bows up until they fit. The last rib out in the tip will need a little re-design, as mine will be an inch or so longer than the kit, but of the same depth. I vaguely recall the rudder on the Speedy Bee'ing 3/16" but that will Bee laminated up too.

The SA Buggy will be, I feel sure, a fast assembly job and thus ideal for a newbie to creating model aircraft. If I got one, at least the fuselage would be 'stuck' together (???) rather than sheet, and then I'd want laminated curved outlines rather than bits of wood, however artistically laser-cut, stuck together to imitate a curved outline.

At which point, it would be quicker and cheaper to build a version of that IMAA legal 75% full sized 48" longwingBee I saw years ago at one of the KRC meets.

I've even got the Speedy Manual, in real Clancy style. Haven't actually read it though. it's not that you don't need any more models - I only need two (Four Star and Lazy Bee) but what do you want? But from the sound of it, I'd go for a regular sized Speedy, not a BigSpeedy. Though the world could stand one... It wouldn't hold the spotlight for long though, Flying W would probably build an all foam one at twice life size that would break down to fit in a Government Motors Denial's glove locker

Now, who's got some dark green Solarfilm?

Dereck
Who still keeps thinking of what a Speedy would look like without a tailplane...

Because he has a real good idea of what a Lazy does, ditto..
Sep 16, 2010, 09:58 AM
Build more, websurf less
FlyingW's Avatar
Big Speedy?
Sep 16, 2010, 10:10 AM
Registered User
TexasClouds's Avatar
D, are these the Big ones?:

Sep 16, 2010, 10:26 AM
Visitor from Reality
Thread OP
Well, they're pretty big by my standards - Flying W may disagree a tadger

The yellow one has an interesting set of wingtips to it - that downwards dihedral could actually improve matters in roll, I feel, plus they look laminated vice the kit's, but could be wrong there. The only snag I can see with those downgoing tips to a flat bottom in the dihedral regions is that you'd lose the 'standard' wing structure's nice straight aileron hinge line.

I shall look into it some. If the hingeline could be done easily, I prefer the look and it would be easier to build.

Note that both run to sprung UC too. I'm contemplating a little heresy here, and fitting a slightly more regular shaped UC that puts the wheels down under the fuselage bottom somewhat - two wire legs, some cross-bracing/springing perhaps? More to get the wheels out the way of battery replacement than much else. It would mean building a new, dedicated set of floats though. I have my original set of wooden framed Speedy Floats - okay, they fit Lazy's as well - and it save a bunch of time and effort not having to make another set

BTW - if anyone, or anyone you know, has a driving urge to build a Lazy Bee with Clancy Aviation's 'aileron' wing, get up with me - I have the aileron wing kit. I can't see me ever doing anything with it. Would have to find a box for shipping, as it's only the wing plans and components, but AFAIK, it's all there. Prefer it go to a good home than fester in my darkest storage dungeons.

D
Sep 16, 2010, 11:00 AM
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TexasClouds's Avatar
I didn't even notice that wingtip...looks real nice!

there are some nice speedy pics here.


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