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Aug 16, 2010, 02:28 PM
Confused? Who, me?
Roger Lombard's Avatar
Some great suggestions coming in, Gentlemen - how the hell are we going to choose?
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Aug 16, 2010, 02:51 PM
aka : SteveBB..
Stevepilot's Avatar
Originally Posted by Roger Lombard
Some great suggestions coming in, Gentlemen - how the hell are we going to choose?
May I refer the honourable gentleman to his quest for garnishing ideas?

They can't all be built at once, so why not have a poll of those that have been passed as dooable (drawings and specs easily to hand)? Of the suggestions, a very small percentage will be in that catagory. Then poll those, choose the top two or three to be done first..the rest on the back burner?..
Aug 16, 2010, 03:29 PM
Registered User
Originally Posted by vintage1
The very best 3 view is this one

VERY unusual subject but I reckon a very good flyer might result. The wing looks 'right' to me.
Lots of good stuff on the Merlin here:

It really is a lovely plane, and I've never seen it modelled. Although my vote goes whole-heartedly to the King Kite. Gull wing Sensible proportions Character and curves Seldom modelled Flaps + ailerons for crow-braking + camber change Made in North Yorkshire

What's not to love?

Lots of good info near the above link too.

Aug 16, 2010, 04:15 PM
Woodstock 1's Avatar
Originally Posted by skylark3f
There's a nice 3-view of the Zugvogel in the same Martin Simons book as the Skylark 2 "Merlyn" I can get all the detailed photos of the Zugvogel you'd need too!
That Zugvogel is really nice.. Any more pics?
Aug 16, 2010, 04:21 PM
..full opposite rudder..
Here it is again, captured with another example of the breed at the International VGC Rally in Tibenham a couple of weeks ago: it was a good week.
Aug 16, 2010, 04:40 PM
Registered User
Originally Posted by The SKY MAN
What about the standard austria?

Never seen it but I like the lines.
Aug 16, 2010, 05:08 PM
Registered User

Olympia 2b

A 3-view from Martin Simons of the original Meise
A small section showing the EON 2b with the blown canopy and wheel
A very nice photo (unusual color scheme) of the Olympia 2b
Aug 16, 2010, 05:24 PM
SB-28 UK Display Pilot
GeeW's Avatar
I would suggest that it would be an advantage to keep to a simple (ish) design to maximise uptake. All these curves and gull wings, although beautiful to look at do make for a protracted build which is not everyone's cup of tea (coffee for the americans amongst us!).
The dear old Oly Meise and all its derivatives do however tempt me slightly as my first share of a f/s glider was a Nord de mille ex F-CAIU .....
Happy days.
Aug 16, 2010, 05:38 PM
Registered User
vintage1's Avatar
Frankly all are similar work.

The only gains I can see area fabric covered rear fuselage. But a glider like this will always have a load of ribs, and wing sheeting, and the actual gull wing or not is no big deal. Its never going to be a 'quick' build.

Collect all the ideas into a poll and vote on it..
Aug 16, 2010, 06:31 PM
Registered User
OK, I have wanted a Olympia for a long time.
In fact, I have the Charlesworth 1/4 scale plans and even have the planform with modern HQ transitioning airfoils and washout tabs designed in CompuFoil 3D. Construction techniques match the Charlesworth plan.
IF this sailplane is kitted, I would be more than happy to send the files (which could be downsized to 1/5 scale) to get it started.

Aug 17, 2010, 02:00 AM
Confused? Who, me?
Roger Lombard's Avatar
Originally Posted by skylark3f
How about a Zugvogel IIIA?

It's got the same construction as a K8 and has the same performance in flight as a K18. Certainly not an overmodelled glider!

See the attached photo.
Some more pictures here

and by the way lots of pictures of other classics at Tibenham 2010
Aug 17, 2010, 03:27 AM
Registered User
vintage1's Avatar
I have to ask, how much do people care about ultimate scale fidelity?

Thinking about the King Kite, only 3-4 ever made, no two exactly alike..drawings exist somewhere, but they must be development drawings since it never really was 'in production'...I mean if its simply a beautiful model that is recognisable as a king you care beyond that?

The reason being I can take a 3V sketch and produce a solid model that 'looks right' without having exact cross sections etc..but it wont necessarily be right as it were.
Aug 17, 2010, 07:08 AM
Registered User
Hi Vintage1,

What is it they say..."You can't please all of the people all of the time..."

My own preference is for models to be as faithful in outline and crossection as possible, but I'm happy with some deviations if they help the model fly better (e.g. up-sizing tailplanes/control surface areas). I like a model that gets flown, not hung from the ceiling.

At the other end of the scale, I expect the real scale fanatics would prefer to research and scratch build their own models anyway.

And of course the big plus of a kit build, regarless of your level of scale purism, is that you can modify and enhance to suit your own taste much more easily than you can with an ARTF.

That probably didn't help, did it? But I can send you King Kite fuselage X-sections if that helps...!

Aug 17, 2010, 07:12 AM
Registered User
dion9146's Avatar
Interesting question that should be at the heart of the issue. Is the target audience for this plane the first time scale builder or experienced scale builder who just wants to build something from a kit for a change? And what sort of scale fidelity does that target demand?

I'm sort of going through that right now myself. I want to build my first scale ship and have been doing a lot of research over the past two weeks. I'm an above average builder and have built other planes from scratch. I've gone from looking for affordable kits (few and far between) to deciding on a scratch build and scaling plans to get into the 3m range. I too think it is an under-served area.

The balance is to build a scale ship that I can be proud of and that looks right vs. feeling that I need to build a museum quality model. That line of thinking has also guided me in my choices. I've found a lot of ships that would look great, but the scale detailing involved is beyond my desire at the moment. I know that creating a true scale 'work of art' comes down to the final 10%, and that's where I personally always stall. I just want a subject that avoids that final 10%.

Some of the subjects presented in this thread fit that bill. I think the Zugvogel is a real looker and doesn't seem like it would be that complex and would be easy to make it look right. Another thought I had was for a motorglider like the ASK14. That's a beautiful ship and is on my short list as well - as much for the easy launch options as anything. I don't have access to a good slope or tow planes in my area. My plans are to shrink these drawings to 1:4.5 to get a 3.17 meter ship.

Aug 17, 2010, 07:43 AM
Woodstock 1's Avatar
"+1" to both the previous two posts (with the exception of the motorglider bit....)!

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