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Old Aug 07, 2010, 07:01 PM
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Question

home made indoor, roll vs yaw


hi,
i am planning on making an indoor plane, but i need to choose between yaw and roll,

i will be making it to unlimited vertical and nearly hover so the flaps will be in the prop wash,
bit should i have a v-tail, x-tail ,t-tail or Tailerons
v-tail has roll
x-tail has yaw
t-tail has yaw
Tailerons has roll
Last edited by bradleyK; Aug 09, 2010 at 04:17 AM. Reason: Tailerons not elevators
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 08:43 PM
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A 3D plane needs all functions, roll (ailerons) pitch (elevator) and yaw (rudder)

Almost all 3D foamies use X or cross tail, due to the "shockie" style of construction.

Pat MacKenzie
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 08:59 PM
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sorry i meant vertical flight
3d as in xyz
Old Aug 08, 2010, 09:02 AM
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I'm a little confused by your first post but hopefully the following will be useful.

Tee, Vee and conventional cruciform tail configurations can all provide pitch and yaw control. In theory they can all be set-up to provide some roll control too but that's not likely to work well for most aircraft and is usually only done on planes with a small span and large all moving tails like say an F-16 type configuration.

Both conventional cruciform tails and Tee tails are almost always fitted with an elevator or all moving tailplane and a rudder is fitted whenever yaw control is needed. Almost all precision aerobatic planes will have a conventional cruciform tail with a rudder. The main considerations for a Tee tail are that the tail is likely to be heavier, give less symmetrical handling and lower drag. So Tee tail can be good for speed or efficiency but not great for aerobatics.
A vee tail provides the same controls as the other two configurations but because the control surfaces are not in the vertical and horizontal planes it's necessary to mix the movements of the two surfaces to get the appropriate proportions of pitch and yaw control. So the surfaces will move in the same or opposite directions depending on whether pitch or yaw is required and a combination of the two controls involves a mix of the control surface movements. The yaw control from a Vee tail does also produce roll but not effectively and it's not treated as a roll control so much as a yaw control with coupling.
The vee tail is typically lighter than a Tee tail, produces low drag but will tend to to give assymetrical handling.

Roll control is dealt with by ailerons on the main wings for the vast majority of aircraft.

Aidan
Old Aug 08, 2010, 10:46 AM
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Perhaps he want to make a "tail stander"?

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...ight=vtol+foam

I think they use 4 control surfaces, with mixing. A local guy has made a few of these, but I never looked too closely at them.

Pat MacKenzie
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Old Aug 09, 2010, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aio_1 View Post
I'm a little confused by your first post but hopefully the following will be useful.

Tee, Vee and conventional cruciform tail configurations can all provide pitch and yaw control. In theory they can all be set-up to provide some roll control too but that's not likely to work well for most aircraft and is usually only done on planes with a small span and large all moving tails like say an F-16 type configuration.

Both conventional cruciform tails and Tee tails are almost always fitted with an elevator or all moving tailplane and a rudder is fitted whenever yaw control is needed. Almost all precision aerobatic planes will have a conventional cruciform tail with a rudder. The main considerations for a Tee tail are that the tail is likely to be heavier, give less symmetrical handling and lower drag. So Tee tail can be good for speed or efficiency but not great for aerobatics.
A vee tail provides the same controls as the other two configurations but because the control surfaces are not in the vertical and horizontal planes it's necessary to mix the movements of the two surfaces to get the appropriate proportions of pitch and yaw control. So the surfaces will move in the same or opposite directions depending on whether pitch or yaw is required and a combination of the two controls involves a mix of the control surface movements. The yaw control from a Vee tail does also produce roll but not effectively and it's not treated as a roll control so much as a yaw control with coupling.
The vee tail is typically lighter than a Tee tail, produces low drag but will tend to to give assymetrical handling.

Roll control is dealt with by ailerons on the main wings for the vast majority of aircraft.

Aidan
thanks

i meant Tailerons not elevators
Last edited by bradleyK; Aug 09, 2010 at 04:01 AM.
Old Aug 09, 2010, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyK View Post
thanks

i meant Tailerons not elevators
I think you need to tell us more about your project. I would assume, given this is the F3P forum, that we're talking about a precision aerobatic plane but that seems unlikely if you're talking about tailerons.
Can you tell us what style of plane you have in mind and how you want it to perform?
Old Aug 09, 2010, 06:23 PM
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i want to make a sort of Concorde
but i only have 2 servos and a 3 ch receiver
Old Aug 09, 2010, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyK View Post
i want to make a sort of Concorde
but i only have 2 servos and a 3 ch receiver
BradleyK,

I think you might have much better response to your question in the foamy scratch build thread: The folks over there will be much more familiar with the construction and mix techniques needed for your type of build.

https://www.rcgroups.com/foamies-scratchbuilt-428/

This thread deals with indoor competition pattern and freestyle planes. Hope this helps, and good luck with your build.

aerolite
Old Aug 10, 2010, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyK View Post
i want to make a sort of Concorde
but i only have 2 servos and a 3 ch receiver
In that case you need to use elevons on the wing trailing edge, mixing pitch and roll control. Yaw cannot replace roll unless you've got significant dihedral which wouldn't really be appropriate for that type of plane.

As aerolite said this belongs in another forum. Also you need to tell people exactly what it is you're trying to find out and give sufficient information to answer your questions. Otherwise those trying to help you will end up wasting their time answering the wrong question.
Old Aug 11, 2010, 09:48 AM
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thank you very much


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