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You have a good handle on controling the ship smoothly while inverted and the transition back to upright looked very smooth as well, it was fun to watch, wish I was that far along. Only thing I can flip right now is the my M120. Got to start burning up the packs to get some serious stick time now that my 450 is back in the air. Your ship sounded very good in governor mode, again nice and smooth. It looked so good I have to ask, what are your swats settings, dual rates, expo and gyro travel settings? I know everyone has personal preferance but flying so soothly in the wind makes me want to at least start with your settings to see how it matches up with my thumbs. The Align 325D blades fly well and they seem quieter in flight, less bark with heavy collective or cyclic inputs, than the stock Walkera blades, is it my imagination or have you picked up on the audible differance as well. Good job, Viking |
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Last edited by A VIKING; Aug 26, 2012 at 04:20 PM.
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Don't you hate it when it disappears from site? Mine is doing that right now.
6 Days now, no flying, I'm pissed! |
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Ok, so what would you use? A helical gear or a straight cut gear?
The KDE Direct I think is just trying to state that there gear is stronger & I know they say it is made from a "Delerin" derivative, which really is a better product. But, like I said, it is pricey, & is it worth it? So, it all depends on your info on the helical gear Vs. the straight gear, & what pinion ratio on both gears. What would you use? Using the TA 804 motor with the increase in motor RPM would really change out the calculations of keeping the main blade rotor speed to a safe limit of 2800 RPM with CF blades. Quote:
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Very interesting, but I would want a immediate idea of my head speed at the field. You can do that with a optical method & that is what we used before (10) years ago. But they were over $ 100.00 for the unit. I have one I bought for plane's propellers that works great at close range on the tail rotor. But who wants to get that close to one! So, they sell a few for $30.00 bucks now that will give you what you are needing. Immediate reading, & no danger factor.
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Anyway, lets see now...About those TX settings. Swashmix: 70 - 70 - 70 DR: 100% Expo: 70% Gyrohold: 80% All the travel adj are at 100% I never use any trims or sub trims, that is taboo for me. Mechanical only. I also went and turned up my RX gyro pots. They are just shy of a 1/2 turn now. So basically i turn them all the way down. See where it's pointing, and turn the pot almost exactly pointing the opposite way. This ends up being pointed almost right at the + sign above the pots. The Balance delay i leave down just a little bit lower. Basically pointed straight up at 90 degrees from the bottom side of the RX if you look at it so that the label is right side up. Or what i think most people would call 12:00. Quote:
But honestly, for the simplicity of it all. I just stick with the standard and stock toothing at 150T. Plus like i said, you can pick up align main gears anywhere and for cheap! As for your ESC Now that i have the thing flying well and everything is working out. I feel comfortable recommending the Hobbywing Platinum Pro 40A ESC for use with the TA 804 for governor mode. Using the 11T pinion it should be fine. But till I get a good tachometer, i'm not going to rely on the sound thing with my heli putting out all those resonances from the bushing on the motor shaft. I really don't know how all the math and everything will work out. I have a feeling i'm slightly over the 2800 RPM mark, but it's very close. I'm more of a hands on kind of guy. It's really hard for me to suggest you try the helical gears being i have never tried them myself. I do have one more suggestion for increasing the load capability and stability of your helicopter with a load. Add more blades!! Yup, there are 4 bladed rotors out there that should work with this heli with a little work. I'm sure the ones made to fit an align heli would work fine. 4 blades would reduce the RPM of the main rotor but the air moving though it would be dramatically increased. You would get a much more sensitive pitch control with your collective stick and with extra weight you will have more punch. Just a suggestion.. I recently flew a 5 bladed heli and it surprised me how much authority the collective commanded for such a small amount of movement. This is my best flight from today, and probably my best flight so far with the V450.
With the v450. The mechanics were the easy part to set up properly. But I had problems with the electronics since day 1. Starting with the ESC catching fire. Now that all electronics besides the RX have been replaced and are setup properly. I can start getting into some real flight maneuvers! It was just too windy today topping short gusts coming in over 30mph. When it started to really pick up a gale came though suddenly and knocked my tail 90 degrees. Pretty scarey. |
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Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Aug 26, 2012 at 08:32 PM.
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Here's a simple equation you can use to calculate Head Speed.
HS= (motor Rpm/v * battery voltage * pinion teeth) / main gear teeth. Here's how it works; For a 3500 kv motor and a 11.1 v batt and an 11T pinion and a 150T main gear. HS=(3500*11.1*11)/150 then, HS=427350/150 then, HS=2849 rpm for a 14T pinion HS=3626 |
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3950kv motor, 11T pinion, 150T main gear. 3950 * 11.1 * 11 / 150 = 3215.3 No wonder i'm having so much fun! On top of that aren't batteries 12.6v fully charged!? On top of that, i'm fairly sure the TA 804 motor is over 4000kv. This is interesting because my phone tach came up with about 3200rpm too. Sooo, even with all my other harmonics going on, the spectrum analysis works anyway. Even with a cheap phone app. |
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Well, yeah.
I use a phone app too, but I think the equation is easier to use. |
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Last edited by clearprop88; Aug 27, 2012 at 09:51 AM.
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Can you please tell me using clock hour how you set your pots on rx gyro please ? Rudder is ok on the minimum about 7:00 Balance is ok 12:00 ? And the other two ? About 10:00 ? Thanks and congratulation for your set up and flying capabilities Ps: I have the same esc... next days will try the governor mode... but.... what type of curve should I put on the tx after set up the esc ? |
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Setting up the 2801-pro for use with the v450D01 with Hobbywing Platinum Pro 40A ESC using Governor Mode. Here Is the RX setting i am currently using with the Savox servos. Photoshop added red dots so you can see where the pots point. For governor mode you will need two model slots in your 2801-pro. 1. For setting up the RX and programming the ESC. 2. For flying the helicopter. The throttle curve for flight will ALWAYS be flat at a set %. The number you choose will set the output of the motor. I am using 80% which is probably too high for the Turbo Ace 804 motor using a 11T pinion. More on that later. TX Model Data for Flying the Heli: Setting up normal mode throttle curve for flight: Setting up ST-1 mode throttle curve: Setting up ST-2 mode throttle curve: Setting up throttle hold! This is important, you probably have this setting already! But check to be sure! You must also have your throttle limits on the Hobbywing ESC set correctly!: TX Model Data for Setting up the Heli: Setting up normal mode throttle curve for programming the ESC, 0-100 linear: Setting up Throttle Hold pitch curve for programming the RX neutral and end points configuration / calibration: You must also program the Hobbywing ESC to use VERY SOFT START. Once you make the above changes to your TX, you will no longer be able to program the ESC using the Gov mode TX model data(V450GOV). You have to be sure to use the model data for setup (450-Set). To start flying your helicopter you will need to bind it to your TX with the THROTTLE HOLD SWITCH ON!. Or it will not bind! Once you have the TX and RX ready for flight, You can move your collective stick near the middle, but stay toward the negative pitch side. Because you are using VERY SOFT START on the ESC settings. You can now turn off the throttle hold switch. The heli will begin to SLOWLY spin up to speed (as shown in my videos). Once it reaches max speed you can take off! You may not want to use "Normal Mode" any longer depending on how you feel when flying in normal mode with the head speed at full. ALSO IMPORTANT!! If you are using the turbo ace 804 motor, using my setup is giving the head speed 3200 rpm!!! This is too fast and most blade manufacturers label their blades for MAX SPEED of 2800 rpm. You can reduce the throttle curve, i believe, but have not tried yet, to 70% or even 60% to reduce head speed. WARNING!!!!! Throttle curves below 60% will shut the motor down! I would be careful and test that your throttle limits are registering correctly before lift off. I hope this helps, if you have any questions, or don't understand feel free to ask again. Your lucky it's raining and i couldn't work or fly today! So i had plenty of time to write this up for you! UPDATE: I got one flight in between the rains from Tropical Storm Irving. I lowered all my throttle curve settings to 70 percent. The Heli flew great. I could not tell if there was a head speed reduction or not. |
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Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Aug 27, 2012 at 06:23 PM.
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Repairing My Turbo Ace 804 Motor - The E Clip
I went to the hardware store and picked up some "E-Clips" to repair my motor to hopefully quiet it down some. Well, what ensued was a farce of a repair project. I knew better before even trying, which is why I've been lazy about doing this job. But here it goes. Let me show you what I did. Feel free to laugh your ass off. But for the time being, it's working! lol.
But first, let me just say. This motor will not hold with an e clip any longer. I spun the motor up with no gear attached just to test. The e clip immediately shot off. No luck there. It looked a little to small or something anyway. So i knew i had to test it. These E clips should be the right fit, otherwise i have no other options to pick from. They took a little finesse to install. With just a small amount of force to get them on. Once on, it looked a little bit loaded. So, like i said after testing. The first one flew right off with the main gear disconnected. So i tried a few new options. I found a brass bushing that was actually almost the exact right size to be pressed directly down over the shaft. It was one of the many brass bushings i've been salvaging out of broken blade roots. It's a 3mm diameter hole for the screw, i think. It pressed on pretty easily but was too tall. It would have stuck the pinion up too high. It was late do i didn't want to bust out the dremel just yet. This was looking like an excellent option after shortening the bushing. But it still won't stop the bell from moving around should the e-clip come off, and it will. It's just to keep the bearing from popping loose and making the bell spin off axis and bind up the motor. Kind of a problem. Some kind of retaining clip needs to be pressed against the bearing. So temporary this will work out. Can't be any worse than the loose bushing i had in there before that is now all worn out anyway. I almost waited too long to do this. I still needed to test that the new servo horns and repairs were working after my last crash! I didn't want to be grounded for the time being. I came up with a temporary solution. A canopy grommet! The original size was too tall also, but after cutting it in half... LOL. This is so "Hillbilly handiwork" it's not even funny. But here it is! The currently working, for now. Retaining bushing for the main motor bearing. Man.... Can you all tell how bored i get when tropical storms blow though? Can't work, can't play. So this is what i end up doing with my time lol. EDIT: UPDATE: (same say, i know, like i said i've been bored) Because Thwaitm was making fun of me (again, lol ) I went to a different hardware store and they had some slightly different sizes available. One of which was a 5/32! YAY. Since the other was too small and i was unable to find a size up or down from it in the last store, i had all but given up hope of finding one locally! But here it is. It's too late and quiet to spin it up right now to test, but its on there really good. I don't think this one is coming off. It actually clicked on like it's supposed to! The rubber is staying there just in case though. |
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Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Aug 28, 2012 at 03:35 AM.
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I needed new servo horns for my Savox servos. Notice the 2 ripped out linkages and 1 broken horn! I prefer to buy the Savox brand just FYI for you Align guys. They are almost the exact same horn sets, except the Savox set has 1 extra horn that is similar to the ones you probably would normally use. Except bigger. It's like the ones I'm about to show you in these pictures, just longer and fatter. So for about the same price you get an extra usable horn for your v450. Thats 2 crashes for the price of 1. I have also used the cross shaped ones but they seem to respond very poorly under the stresses. I don't recommend them. Also, I managed to get a lock nut on 2 of the 3 horns after taking these pictures. It was not easy. The 3rd one's threads are a little stripped on the ends so i couldn't get the 3rd one on. But the way that i mounted the servo linkages this time was MUCH better than the last time. All that delay in my pitch response i was complaining about is pretty much gone now. I never even realized the linkages were moving around inside the horns, till this one came out! OOPS! So they feel like they are in there really tightly now even though the plastic turned white from the spreading force of the screw. I guess no matter what these things need to have an eye kept on them and maybe even replaced during general maintenance as they become loose. which for me is probably going to be like weekly But hopefully it was just because the last time i bored the plastic to 1.5mm. This time i only bored it out to 1.3mm. Might make all the difference in the world. So, the problem with the Savox servo horns is that they are hard to get. Even Savox USA dot com has had mine on backorder for nearly a month. I sent a email suggestion to club heli to start stocking them. They replied back and said they would have them on order next week! Thank you Rick! That should be nice to have another source! But when you just can't get them. The align horns are everywhere and available even in your LHS. Though the Savox should be too in a lot of them. Just seems like less support here for them. Still excellent servos. The method i used to affix the linkage to the horn was pretty straight forward and simple. I used a 1.3mm flat head screw driver to bore the 3rd hole (10mm) out to prepare it for entry. Then i held the servo horn on the edge of my work table so that i could hold it flat and apply down pressure while screwing the linkage in. I then used my special little hobby razor to clear the back side of any bulging plastic that was pressed out or in the way. This was so that there might be enough room to tighten a nut down on it. I later used a similar method as the above picture. Only this time with the nut and a wrench under the screw on the other side. With enough pressure and turning i managed to hook the nut and get a turn or so in before it started to feel damaging to the horn. Afterward cut off the opposite side of the horn and sand it if you like to look nice and smooth. Happy flying! hope no one has their linkages coming loose too! |
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Because Thwaitm was making fun of me (again, lol ) I went to a different hardware store and they had some slightly different sizes available. One of which was a 5/32! YAY. Since the other was too small and i was unable to find a size up or down from it in the last store, i had all but given up hope of finding one locally! But here it is. It's too late and quiet to spin it up right now to test, but its on there really good. I don't think this one is coming off. It actually clicked on like it's supposed to! The rubber is staying there just in case though. |
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Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Aug 28, 2012 at 03:36 AM.
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