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Jul 17, 2010, 04:05 PM
J.R. DIEGEL
Question

Winch motor


Gentlemen,
I am looking to buy a cheap ford long shaft starter.
D.B. Electrical sells new #sfd0047 $81.95 shipping $18.00 total 99.95
as does NAPA remfd #444224 $76.49 core $13.50 total #89.99

Has anyone used these starters?

I 'm not interested in building a winch to rip wings off gliders. I just want to get woodies in the air safely.

JINKS D.
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Jul 17, 2010, 06:41 PM
Registered User
rogerflies's Avatar
How big are the woodies? I've launched my Lovesong and some other planes of similar size with winches made with much smaller motors. I especially like the smooth-running high quality Bosch motors in the 1.4KW range, similar to what's used in F3B winches. The larger permanent-magnet outboard starter motors are also good candidates for non-contest use.

My present winch uses a NIB original starter for a Chevette, of all things. I got it cheap on Ebay about eight years ago.

Getting a good original Ford longshaft is tough nowadays. Almost all of them have been rebuilt several times, and have suffered from the use of non-Ford parts of much lower quality. The new cheapo knock-offs are coming out of India, and from my limited experience are junk.

With your machining skills, you won't have any problem installing ball bearings in a Bosch motor to make yourself a great winch. You're welcome to look around on my photobucket albums for some ideas. http://smg.photobucket.com/home/winchman/allalbums
Last edited by rogerflies; Jul 17, 2010 at 06:50 PM.
Jul 17, 2010, 07:32 PM
Registered User
PLEASE, be careful with DB Electrical Ford long shaft motors. I have had two come back to me lately with the brushes transfered to the commutator. This costs me a bunch with shipping and rebuilding. I have taken several NEW motors to my rebuilder and he laughed at the quality. If you buy one from DB electrical you must check: The brush holders for tightness and quality. The springs for tension. The clearance on both front and back. Tightness of the big screws on the case. Tightness of the bushings. I talk from direct experience here. All of the preceeding have been bad on NEW motors. Out of the last 8 I ordered only one passed all of the preceeding problems. Rick, Hands Free Retriever
Jul 17, 2010, 07:59 PM
<>< AKA W4BPS

Motors


I would not doubt or dispute Rick at all, but I have bought 4 motors in the last year from D&B for our winches and they all have been "very" good motors.. When I say very good. They provide great power, are lasting well, and the bushing have stayed smooth .. I have never torn one down, nor do I have Ricks experience with the guts of winch motors. I do know all the ones we got are the 23 segement versions.. . Anyone else? I would be interested to know where we would get better, more reasonable priced ones. Brian
Jul 17, 2010, 08:10 PM
<>< AKA W4BPS

motor


http://stores.channeladvisor.com/db-...3110%20SFD0047

These is the ones we bought.. I'm wondeing if it is the ones Rick got?? Brian
Jul 17, 2010, 09:21 PM
J.R. DIEGEL
RICK,
Thanks, things like that are what I want to know.

I do not think there is going to be a better, more reasonable priced motor, at least not the F.L.S. style. D.B. and NAPA are the only ones I've ever found no line.
The F.L.S. motor makes it so simple to make a winch. Using the short shafted starter it takes a lot of extra machining and materials.

BRIAN,
Are you guys launching those moldies by standing on the peddle all the way up using these standard motors?


we still need to hear from any one who has used the starter from NAPA.

Thanks gentlemen.
Jul 18, 2010, 01:27 AM
Registered User
rogerflies's Avatar
Rebuilt motors from NAPA were what I was referring to when I said they had been rebuilt several times and suffered from the use of non-Ford parts. The original Ford drive end cap and brush holder had been replaced with low quality knock-offs that have smaller bushings. The drive end cap is a thinner aluminum casting with a different shape, and it can't be modified for a ball bearing installation.

One of the motors I bought had a slight bend in the shaft. That wouldn't keep it from working on a car, but I didn't want a wobbly winch drum. After seeing the beat-up case on the second motor, my friend asked me to return it, too.

He decided to spend big bucks for one of the TB1225 modified pump motors from Injoy. It was a very good motor, and the winch turned out nicely. He mounted it on a platform in the back of his Cherokee.
Jul 18, 2010, 05:56 AM
<>< AKA W4BPS
Yes we have all the moldies. Xploders, Supra's and I'm flying a Pike Perfect. We use these motors "very" hard.. I don't personally just stand on the pedal as I don't think that gaines anything, but some of our guys sure do.
Again I have no vested interest in D&B. But I was stunned to read Rick's remarks. So I'm all in favor of finding an "even better" motor at a reasonable/comparable cost. Brian

Quote:
Originally Posted by JINKSd
RICK,
Thanks, things like that are what I want to know.

I do not think there is going to be a better, more reasonable priced motor, at least not the F.L.S. style. D.B. and NAPA are the only ones I've ever found no line.
The F.L.S. motor makes it so simple to make a winch. Using the short shafted starter it takes a lot of extra machining and materials.

BRIAN,
Are you guys launching those moldies by standing on the peddle all the way up using these standard motors?


we still need to hear from any one who has used the starter from NAPA.

Thanks gentlemen.
Jul 18, 2010, 06:23 AM
<>< AKA W4BPS

Mark Miller -- Ed Rau


Either of you watching this thread. How is the D&B motor doing on the winch I sold Ed Rau?? Brian
Jul 18, 2010, 06:50 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerflies
Rebuilt motors from NAPA were what I was referring to when I said they had been rebuilt several times and suffered from the use of non-Ford parts. The original Ford drive end cap and brush holder had been replaced with low quality knock-offs that have smaller bushings. The drive end cap is a thinner aluminum casting with a different shape, and it can't be modified for a ball bearing installation.

One of the motors I bought had a slight bend in the shaft. That wouldn't keep it from working on a car, but I didn't want a wobbly winch drum. After seeing the beat-up case on the second motor, my friend asked me to return it, too.
NAPA motor is what I use and have had absolutely NO problem for 5 years now. Further, NAPA gave me a lifetime guarantee(which I haven't used)..so you can just bring it back if you find something wrong with it. Check with them to see if it's still on. Bushings are cheap and easily replaced. Any Autoelectric shop has them. I replaced mine on the shaft side where I found I could put in TWO where only one existed - Cost $6 and that was installed!
Jul 18, 2010, 09:14 AM
Registered User
Brian, your link goes directly to DB electrical. I too have used these for years with NO PROBLEMS. Our club winch and retriever both use these. But, the last batch I bought were bad and have all been carefully looked at and rebuilt before being used on my retrievers. I don't want any motors coming back to me making my retrievers looking bad. Rick, HFR
Jul 18, 2010, 09:43 AM
<>< AKA W4BPS

motor link


Yes that link is to the motor we/I have been buying. Is there a different one from D&B? I got one about a month ago and installed it on one of our club winch trailers. It is smooth and strong. So I don't know what else to say. Again, we are always open to new better motors/items for our winches, so if better motors can be had reasonable, I'll be open to trying them. I just found it more and more diffucult to find any motors that were as good and as reasonable as these. The Atlanta guys led me to these motors back when they were doing the Mid-South. I do have one high powered BB Enjoy motor on my personal McCann winch, but I won't pay that much again. Thanks Brian

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbothell
Brian, your link goes directly to DB electrical. I too have used these for years with NO PROBLEMS. Our club winch and retriever both use these. But, the last batch I bought were bad and have all been carefully looked at and rebuilt before being used on my retrievers. I don't want any motors coming back to me making my retrievers looking bad. Rick, HFR
Jul 18, 2010, 03:05 PM
Registered User
Mark Miller's Avatar
Ed's motor works great in the winch Brian sold him. I have used a few NAPA motors and have had no issues. I have a personal winch motor that has a bent shaft after someone really botched a launch. Brake arm hot the drum and it got bent. I am going to get a NAPA motor and swap out the armature as mine has McCann ball bearings in it.

I have had more issues having a local rebuilder rebuild some motors. Either the brushes were way to loose in the holders or they were to tight. I had to go in and reform the holders. No problems after that.

If anyone has a McCann type drum I am in need of one. I could also use a lead on ball bearing conversions. I maintain the winches for MVSA and we have a few motors that could use them.

Mark
Jul 18, 2010, 04:02 PM
J.R. DIEGEL
Thanks gentlemen,

So to buy either starter it's best to check it out just in case.

I want to buy one and install a bearing in the drive end. With the napa starter I'd have to make a new end bell. Can the D.B. end bell be modified to except a bearing or does it need a new end bell also?


ROGER,

in your photo album one of your starters you installed a shaft extinction. How did you attach it. I'm wondering if it's possible to use another starter and add a 5/8" extinction
and use this starter as a replacement for the F.L.S. for a reasonable price. I think you'd have to machine the shaft extinction after installing.
If the winch motor mount needs the same size hole & bolt pattern a new end plate with a bearing could be installed. I think I could make these bearing end plates for around $30.00 plus the cost of the bearing & snap ring.

JINKS D.
Jul 18, 2010, 04:59 PM
Registered User
rogerflies's Avatar
I put shaft extensions on several Chevy motors by pressing a piece of 7/8" OD 4130 tubing over the splined section of the original shaft. I picked a wall thickness that would give me an interference fit of 0.002". Because of the variations from one piece of tube to another, I had to do a little boring on the ID on some pieces to get the fit correct. This was done with the steady rest so the bore would be concentric with the OD of the tube.

Before pressing the tube in place, I would mark the armature so i knew where the spline grooves would be under the tube. I'd dimple the tube over each spline groove (there are three of them) with a center punch to lock it in place.

After making sure the shaft extension was running true to the armature, I filled the void between outer end of the original shaft and the inside of the tube with JB Weld. I was always able to get the runout down to several ten-thousandths with a little tweaking of the pressed joint.

The last step was to press on a bronze or aluminum sleeve that I could machine to fit the inner race of the ball bearing I planned to use. The bearing would be a light press fit on the aluminum sleeve, and a running fit on the bronze sleeve.

It was OK with me if the inner race turned on the bronze bushing under light loads. That let the motor spin up faster, and the ball bearing would take over as soon as the side load increased as the line was tensioned.

I did essentially the same thing on some of the Bosch motors using 5/8" tubing.
Last edited by rogerflies; Jul 18, 2010 at 05:20 PM.


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