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Jun 27, 2011, 03:14 PM
Edubarca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny e
Got this at a yard sale about 20 years ago for dollar tons of useful info and plans inside some day I'm going to scan this book
Hello, Please scan it soon!!!
His models were first: flying models, second: scale models. He modified them for good flying performance but still keep original shape etc. His models were also rather complex to build and came out rather heavy, but they flew very well, including RC ones like the "Good Knight" which I built and flew some years ago with good success. By the way is he still around?
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Jun 27, 2011, 06:21 PM
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More Kiel Kraft


yest another batch from my Keil Kraft file. enjoy

KK Achilles 24" span rubber duration

KK Auster Arrow 20.5" span flying scale rubber

KK Bantam 38.5" span semi scale F/F power model . proffesional tiled plan

KK Cadet 30" span TLG

KK Caprice 51" span TLG

KK Dolphin 30" TLG which came first Banna Fritter or Dolphin either way neither is legal under EU rules

KK Firebird 32" span C/L stunt trainer and combat model OH Oh problem failed to upload see post 4728 on next page for Firebird plan

KK Stunt Queen 40.75" span C/L stunt. plan is scanned original so a few creases.

KK spectre 41" span C/L stunt
Last edited by aeromeddeler; Jun 28, 2011 at 06:54 AM. Reason: Firebird file not up loaded
Jun 27, 2011, 07:26 PM
Edubarca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old foamie
Does anybody have a copy of the Super Cub version of the Live Wire plane series ? I have seen the Champ version of the plans , but only a picture of it on a ad, unless I have missed it. I guess you could wing it from the champ plans though, but a good copy would help, anybody got one? They must of been rare even back then.
I also want this plan. I have searched it for years and years with no luck!!! I built one about 40 years ago!!! Just Nostalgia
Jun 27, 2011, 07:26 PM
LHS Life Support System

Pipsqueak one more time


I thought that I would try my hand at adding to this wonderful thread. I'm still learning PhotoShop so it isn't much. Just a little straightening up and adding some missing type. If anyone can supply the missing type for the typical pushrod configuration or the missing fitting for the rudder pushrod, I'll add it in.
Jun 27, 2011, 07:39 PM
Registered User
The discussion over scale accuracy has been going on for decades. Many great FF scale models, and even RC and CL, have changes to enable them to fly at all. Most notable are enlargements made to Scale FF stabilizers and elevators, and extra dihedral. Often the wing incidence and decalage, and thrust line are off. How often do the flying props even look remotely like the full scale prop? I mean, I think I can only remember seeing 2 pictures of model P-47s flying with close to scale appearing 4 blade props. Many full scle airfoils are just useless in our sizes.

If it looks good, fly it, don't knock it.

Regarding the scale fidelity of drawings. How often are drawings released from a manufacturer really accurate? Case in point, the J-3 Cub. Is the upper rear longeron from the wing TE to the tail straight along it's entire length, or is there a curve just behind the wing TE? I've seen Piper drawings that have shown it both ways. Which is the true one? I've also seen photos of planes with both. What's the story I heard? That the fuse is built with straight longerons, and sometimes during covering or re-covering, the fabric may shrink enough to distort the longeron.

I remember also a blurb about something as simple and basic as Cub yellow. I think the article was in Model Builder. Seems according to (Randolph, Perfect) whichever one supplied the original paint, there were two shades, one before a certain production date, one after. Which one might you be using?

I have met a number of very accurate scale builders. One, the late Merrit Zimmerman, specialized in at least museum quality models of DeHavilland bipes. PArt for part replicas, even to casting and machining accurate working engines. And even he said you cn't always trust even factory drawings for a given production unit.

For what goes into building an accurate scale model, there's a couple threads somewhere by someone who is building a large scale EDF B-47 that discusses the work and frustration in getting adequately accurate drawings to work from.

Musciano apparently was not out to provide museum quality scale models. His schtick was producing adequately accurate models that would fly well. I think many of his models wre designed around the philosophy of allowing a person of modest skills and limited building space, such as a kitchen table, to build a decent looking decent flying model.

I think he generally met his goals! And I thank him for that! Would be nice to have more like him.

About the DeBolt Champ-Super Cub. I got to fly a buddies Super Cub in Libya. Would you believe a plane that size flew quite well crrying an over 20 ounce flite pack Bonner proportional, 1966), with a glow .15? And it could climb at 2/3 throttle? Most people I know today would use a 10 ounce radio and a .40 in it.
Last edited by 50+AirYears; Jun 27, 2011 at 07:44 PM.
Jun 27, 2011, 07:43 PM
Registered User
Thanks, Roger, for the KK plans. Just ran the KK Bantam at 200% for a great RC project.

Soft landings,

Joe
Jun 27, 2011, 08:47 PM
Registered User
"If it looks good don't knock it"

IMHO, I think I've made my case that Muciano's efforts generally ARE GOOD/GREAT models, as distinct from a good scale model, which in and of itself may not be a "good model" for any number of reasons. Some which 50+ listed.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I'm getting the feeling that you fellas think I was knocking them. Let me assure you I wasn't. I grew up with them and have as fond memories of them as the next guy. I even built a few from the book and several Scientific kits, and would love to read Musciano's motivational narative again, as to why one would to build and fly his "scale models", in the context of the time it was written.

Apparently, one HAS to find his models asthetically appealing before one can ligitimately claim a nostalgic feeling for them?
Jun 27, 2011, 08:59 PM
Edubarca
Edubarca's Avatar
Packardpursuit I fully agree with you. Muscianos' designs are still tops!!!
Jun 27, 2011, 09:00 PM
Sir Jasper
zl3vml's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 50+AirYears
Well, I have some good news, and some bad news. Good news, I found the mag with the RC Stinson 150. Bad news is that there are two pages just before the pages I copied that were torn out some time ago.
What was the magazine & date ?
Maybe I or someone has the required pages.

Mark
Jun 27, 2011, 09:05 PM
Registered User
i know its its not vintage but a plan for a poolboy and fan trainer from electric flight international issue july/au1995 woulde be nice thanks......regards gazza
Jun 27, 2011, 09:18 PM
Sir Jasper
zl3vml's Avatar
Here is the Fan Trainer - reduced to by 78% to give a 28" ws - I am about to build it for a 55mm EDF unit I have.
(although I have been saying that for nearly a year now)
And no - I cannot remember why or how I decided to reduce it in size.

Mark
Jun 27, 2011, 09:22 PM
Registered User
Wow,
many thanks for the Keil Kraft plans. Please keep those coming.

Any one have any Mercury plans?

Cheers

Algy2
Jun 27, 2011, 09:53 PM
Registered User

Manufacturer's 3-view accuracy?


I think that the aircraft manufacturer is a doubtful source of accurate 3-views. After all, what does the manufacturer need a 3-view for? To put in the front of the pilot's operating handbook, mostly.
Jun 27, 2011, 10:57 PM
old foamie
I was just wondering, just how many different versions of the Live Wire planes was there? I think the Rudderbug was another with many types of it, anybody got a list of them?
Jun 28, 2011, 12:23 AM
Registered User
Since I was in the process of doing another batch of scans, I just happenend to have some older mags with DeBolt ads. Fun finding them, since he was pretty much a small manufacturer, and active in design and competition,l so he didn't advertise month after month. Also, these mags didn't always have an index of advertisers.I believe SAM or Vintage RC Society has a list of most of his designs. The Live Wire was kind of a trademark for his RC kit line, and his ads didn't always cary the LW name, but I did find a bunch, and there may be others, including some of the plans I've already uploaded. Anyway here's a partial list with if I can, the date and issue of the ad.
November 1956 Young Men: Live Wire Trainer, I think his first RC kit. Live Wire Kitten, for .049. Live Wire Champion, 56" Span, .15 to .19. Live Wire Cruiser, for Multi or Single Channel, .19 to.29, can carry a 2.5 pound payload.
Steptember 1962-I was starting my Fresman year of college:Live Wire Cruiser, 68" Span, 860 sq in area, .19 to .49-starting to use larger engines. A fantastic $19.95. Then the Yankee for .07 to .09 engines, 42" span.
May 1973 American Aircraft Modeler,: the Live Wire P-51.For .29 to .50 engines. For Sport, Stunt, Stand-off Scale, or Pylon Racing. I actually have one. Interesting Stressed Skin wing, need to build a jig to build the wing. Original plan was a faded Ozalid process, but I was able to obtain a much better plan from Fran Pstaciewicz(If I didn't get the name right, I am sincerely sorry) of Tonowanda, NY. He sells many of hte original kit plans. I believe he actually used to work for Dmeco.
And from the April 1959 American Modeler, I actually found the Live Wire Piper Cub. Looks like the Champion, with modified tail surface shape, and the stab appears to be mounted on top of the fuse instead of underneath.
Feb 1967 American Modeler. Only a month or 2 till I rotate Stateside. Shows the Live Wire Jenny, with Plywood Fuselage, and the Biplane versio, the Acrobat. I think Hal modified the Jenny and came up with the P-Shooter, a low wing version. First modern proportional most of us ever saw was a Jenny with a Sampey 404, K&B .35 RC.
Then, I may be attaching too much to my fading memory, but there was a Live Wire Custom Bipe, and IIRC, he may have also kitted the Crusader, the Viscount, and the twin Viscount. And for some reason, I am visuallizing an ad for Tom Brett's Perigee being kitted by Debolt. The only plane he kitted that he didn't design and develop.

Beside the LW P-51, I also have an NIB Live Wire Trainer. I've already rekited 2, something about seeing a kit powered by my first glow engine, the Cub .099. Too bad I can't fit a muffler to either of mine. Clubs around here require a muffler on .09 and above.

Boy, did I get wordy here. Getting close to my bedtime.


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