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Jun 24, 2010, 03:33 AM
Late for work again!
Gary Binnie's Avatar
Thread OP
Cheers, I seem to be spending a lot of time not getting very far with it!! I'm going to leave gluing the joiner tubes in until I find out if this polyester/epoxy thing is a problem.

I need to have a tidy up in the shed, it's got a bit out of hand!!!

GB
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Jun 24, 2010, 12:30 PM
Registered User
prodjx's Avatar
Gary I think as long as you prep the polyester surface, sand etc you shouldn't have any problem's with epoxy. Use at least 1 hour cure or longer cause longer is stronger.
Jun 24, 2010, 03:53 PM
Late for work again!
Gary Binnie's Avatar
Thread OP
Thanks, I will still try and find out what the problem is but I would have thought epoxy would be ok.
Jun 24, 2010, 04:31 PM
Late for work again!
Gary Binnie's Avatar
Thread OP
Spent some time on the joiner tubes, I thought that I could use my jig to set them, could get the dihedral ok but the sweepback needs to be set against the fuselage so I scratched that idea.

I had fun with one 6 swg rod, the tube was a really tight fit on it and was a right pain! I measured the rod, polished it and finally rolled it on the building board to discover that it was ever so slightly bent, aha!! I have struggled with fitting the wings on my other gliders, this has probably been the problem all along.

Gravitated toward the tail end and made a rudder and two tailplanes, nothing tricky here.

Tempted to build the fin next, then I will have no choice but to go back to the wings!!

GB
Jun 24, 2010, 05:13 PM
Late for work again!
Gary Binnie's Avatar
Thread OP

Polyester/epoxy resin


From what I read epoxy is much stronger than polyester resin and it seems that you can use epoxy to glue parts to polyester laminated glass and it bonds well.

Strange then that Chris says this in the Centi-Phase instructions:

It is essential to use fibreglass (polyester) resin for bonding
components in to the fuselage, not epoxy resin.


I can test the bond on the tail parts when I cut them off.

Still confused!!!!!
Jun 24, 2010, 07:19 PM
Registered User
prodjx's Avatar
With due respect to Chris epoxy's have come along way since those instruction's were written. Polyester to polyester bond's don't need as much prep. As a rule epoxy is 3 time's stronger than polyester. I've used polyester to make lay-up tool's for epoxy part's because when waxed for release the part's seem to release easier. Btw I spent most of my career at Grumman working in the composites tool shop and lay-up room's. There's various kind's experience and I alway's feel I can learn.
Jun 25, 2010, 03:13 AM
Late for work again!
Gary Binnie's Avatar
Thread OP
I think you are right and I'm worrying unduly. Back in the 70s we only had 'Araldite' which was used for mending broken house ornaments!!

I looked at the rest of the Centi-Phase instructions and he says to use epoxy for tack gluing the fuselage bulkhead in and the canopy retaining button and cyano for the nylon tailplane bushes (cyano was even rarer back then!). Probably where he meant to use the polyester resin is with adding strips of glass cloth to the fuselage bulkhead and tow hook hardwood block which is already done with my fuselage.

I need to go shopping again for wood, had made two dihedral braces from '1/8th' ply bought from my LHS, who to be fair specialises in trains (the owner prefers to call them 'model railways'!!), it didn't look right so I measured it, 4 mm not 3.2 which would have been enough of an error to cause a problem if I had glued it in.

Trust nobody!!!!

Cheers

Gary
Jun 25, 2010, 07:59 AM
SB-28 UK Display Pilot
GeeW's Avatar
I always fillet bulkheads in using colloidal silica/epoxy mix, all you need to do is steal a lolly stick of the correct radius from a person near you.... (best to let them finish first I have discovered to my cost).
Jun 25, 2010, 08:17 AM
Late for work again!
Gary Binnie's Avatar
Thread OP
What's a 'colloid' then?!!!!

Well I've epoxied the tubes into the fuselage now, did it in the garden (better light) and had to clamp the jig vertical to get the stuff to run down the tubes (mostly on the outside!), waited for it to go gooey then turned it over to do the same again. I just hope that they are in the right place!!!

My mixing sticks come courtesy of McDonalds, spent enough in there over the years!!!

Got to go shopping for wood, wire and other bits.
Jun 25, 2010, 12:54 PM
Registered User
prodjx's Avatar
GeeW might be talking about Cab-o-Sil a common filler. I kind of like micro balloon's myself. BTW I too like to re-use lolly stick's from the coffee shop's, etc. I'm almost fanatical about reusing various thing's. How about reusing the boil in rice bag's that are perferated as release film between my bleeder and the laminate when vaccume bagging. The real stuff is 1-2 thousand dollar's a roll.
Jun 25, 2010, 03:59 PM
SB-28 UK Display Pilot
GeeW's Avatar
I'm talking about colloidal silica!!!
I normally use West System epoxy and its on their webby. Mix your epoxy and apply to the area you are about to fillet, then add CS to the remaining mix of epoxy until you get the desired consistency. For this job I'd go to slightly thinner than peanut butter. Use radiied(sp) stick (5mm radii say) to apply a nice fillet. Clean up mess with acetone. Then clean up rest of mess before Mrs B gets home... sorry I forgot you've the Foss Factory in the back garden now!

EDIT Gary- West System 406 Colloidal Silica. It's what they use to stick Schleicher K-21 (and other) stick assemblies to the floor of the cockpit.
Jun 25, 2010, 04:13 PM
Late for work again!
Gary Binnie's Avatar
Thread OP
Aha, I need to expand my glue and resin range I think, for what I have to do with this one the normal Aeropoxy will be ok.

I remember the front stick of a K21 and its mounting coming out on a 'slightly lumpy landing', oops!! First solo, he was ok so I sent him off but a grass cutting tractor distracted him at the crucial moment, 4k damage, lived to fly another day.

Post coming with today's progress.
Last edited by Gary Binnie; Jun 25, 2010 at 06:02 PM. Reason: Typo
Jun 25, 2010, 04:44 PM
EUROPHIA PETE
Pete Beadle's Avatar

Hi Phase build thread


Hi Gary
First of all I need to apologise for not introducing myself to you when I was at Radioglide at Marsh Gibbon

Secondly, it is always best to either ring or e-mail Chris when you have a query on any of his kits or plans. He's a very helpful chap and talks a lot of good sense

Thirdly, if you use Stabilit Express as an adhesive you will see it has a polyester base and is ideal for buiding/repairing polyester fuselages

Lastly your epic build thread has encouraged me to get my foam winged Hi-Phase down out of the loft to re-furb it in time for the Ivinghoe Nostalgia Day in September, please let me issue an open invitation to you to attend with your Hi-Phase. Last year we had two Amigos, the year before three Birds of Time, this year could be three Hi-Phases!

Good luck with the build

Regards

Pete
Jun 25, 2010, 05:01 PM
Late for work again!
Gary Binnie's Avatar
Thread OP
I mentioned earlier that I glued the joiner tubes in using gravity to make the resin seep down the gaps. Had to keep mixing glue and adding it to fill the 'sink holes. Will leave it to set solid for a few days then cut the tubes off and sand them and the glue bumps flush (assuming that I have not glued the rods in as well!!).

Did my little shopping trip which was only to the local model shop and surprisingly I got mostly what I wanted.

Fitted the tailplane tubes, I usually have to match them to a bellcrank but it doesn't drive the tail directly so it's not critical.

I was itching to get on with building the fin so made myself a little kit of parts and made a start. No problems although I noticed a potential control restriction with the bellcrank (see piccies).

Working for the next three days so it will go quiet.

Cheers

Gary
Jun 25, 2010, 05:16 PM
Late for work again!
Gary Binnie's Avatar
Thread OP
Hi Pete,

Radioglide was a bit wet and windy wasn't it?!! I still don't know where I placed as they have not posted the results, I do believe that I wasn't last which was my main aim!! I learnt an awful lot as well.

I do ring Chris occasionally and pick his brains but I feel like I am bothering him with trivia sometimes, I need a couple more of the nylon tailplane bushes for instance. Should order an Xtrawot and get him to pop a couple in the box!!

We had a great chat at Radioglide but mainly about full-size flying, gliding and glider towing.

Stabilit Express, I've heard of that, must look it up.

September eh?!! Sounds like a deadline!! Could probably do it if I keep going at this rate.

Can you post some photos of your Hi-Phase in here and any other tips you can think of? I did think of using foam wings but they are pricey where I get them made (top quality though).

Cheers

Gary
Last edited by Gary Binnie; Jun 25, 2010 at 06:05 PM. Reason: Typo


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