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May 30, 2010, 07:38 PM
Boooriiiiing.
MadMonkey572's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by forlack
Looks great! I like the look of version 2, it is a bit more refined. 5.5" is the CG that I used. Calculated, 6" is very close to the neutral point, so it might be ok, but could be very pitch sensitive. KFm airfoils are suppose to be able to handle a wider range of CG, so you can try it out and see.

3s with a bigger motor; you have to get a film of it, if you can! I am thinking about putting a smaller 3s battery on mine just for fun. It seemed to handle the high winds yesterday very well. There is some breathing room on weight. 10 - 12 oz will start to be a pretty heavy wing loading.

Have fun and get some video of it, looks great and the best part, you are not stressed out for the maiden because it only took a little bit of time to put together. Should fly well.
I ended up performing the maiden with a 1200mah battery instead of the 460, because I learned my lesson about tailheavy deltas/wings a couple of days ago

It flew GREAT! It's not a powerhouse by any stretch of the imagination, especially since I have the Park 300 underpropped a bit (6X4). But, that keeps it cool and it still flies perfectly

This being my first wing I wasn't sure what to expect, but it needed very little trimming and I absolutely loved it, so I'm VERY excited about building a larger one. Now I know what all the fuss is about! I might even design a large one for combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by forlack
MadMonkey- I just noticed your motor mount looks a little weak in the picture. I just had a hard crash with my DS because the motor broke loose in flight! Yesterday I noticed the mount felt a little loose on the foam. I reinforced it with more glue and had a great flight. Today I noticed it needed some more reinforcement, but flew anyways. After takeoff the plane just ripped to the right side into a hard roll and then hit the ground. I am pretty sure the motor broke loose. The wing actually took the crash very well. No real structural damage except for where the motor popped off. Light = Crash resistant. Anyways I am going to build version 2 today and maiden it Monday.

So lesson learned. Better motor mount. Anyone have some solid motor mounts for flying wings that aren't too bulky??
Since this motor is staying cool and not running hard, I'm not too worried about the mount. Just for a test a while back I mounted a hot-running 2212/6 motor straight onto my foamboard F-22 with only plastic pins through the mount into the foam, and the whole thing was just hotglued together. I probably made about 15-20 flights with it until today when I pulled hard out of a full throttle dive and the motor went flying PAST the plane like a rocket, LOL! It looked hilarious.

But, the motor was so hot I could barely touch it, so if it had been running normally it would still be fine. I think it's on its last legs.

Back on topic, thanks for a great design. On the second flight I moved the 1200mah battery back slightly and the CG is now perfect. I really like this wing
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May 30, 2010, 07:54 PM
Registered User
MadMonkey - That is awesome. This is the first wing I designed and when I flew it the first time I was surprised as well. I am happy that it flew well for you.

What do you think the CG is that you used on the second flight? Also, did it fly like it was on rails? Thanks again for building this wing so quickly! It should scale fine, just will need reinforcement. Now you can paint it.

Ya I think the foam around the mount must have cracked when I had a "rough landing" messing around the other day. I'll just use some bigger foam pieces for the mount.

Thanks for the report.

Chase
May 30, 2010, 08:01 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by forlack
It flys really well for a small wing.
forlack, thank you for the details. Sounds very straight forward. I'll post back with details if/when I have my own built up.

BTW, what is the "LA" you spray the foam board with after letting it soak in the shower? I'm not familiar with that abbreviation.
May 30, 2010, 08:06 PM
Boooriiiiing.
MadMonkey572's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by forlack
MadMonkey - That is awesome. This is the first wing I designed and when I flew it the first time I was surprised as well. I am happy that it flew well for you.

What do you think the CG is that you used on the second flight? Also, did it fly like it was on rails? Thanks again for building this wing so quickly! It should scale fine, just will need reinforcement. Now you can paint it.

Ya I think the foam around the mount must have cracked when I had a "rough landing" messing around the other day. I'll just use some bigger foam pieces for the mount.

Thanks for the report.

Chase
I'll measure the CG when I get back from dinner. I believe it's right about 5.5", possibly slightly forward.

And yes, it flies like it's on rails! Tracks extremely well and is very stable. Stalls are gentle too

I can't wait to try a 30" version with a parkjet motor.... bwahahaha....
May 30, 2010, 08:13 PM
Registered User
Never mind the question about "LA". In some other forums I found that it means "LA's Totally Awesome spray cleaner" which is found back in the cleaning supplies at Dollar Tree. Helps loosen the paper and the residual glue from the foam.
May 30, 2010, 08:46 PM
Registered User
MadMonkey- Ya I designed this wing as a stating point for an FPV wing, but it turned out so fun I had to post it here.
A 30" version could weigh up to 17oz from my calcs. Cubic wing loading would be almost 9 which would make it pretty heavy, but flyable. Gives you a some wiggle room.

mpthompson- FYI my LA Totally Awesome is diluted 10 to 1 (use it to clean counters too) I do it all in the shower. Hot water for 5 mins. Awesome for 5 Mins. Peel in 1min

Chase
May 31, 2010, 02:06 AM
Registered User
doggit's Avatar
have you tried WD40 on the paper, just spray it all over, give it a minute and it will just peel right off,
carl
May 31, 2010, 02:11 AM
Boooriiiiing.
MadMonkey572's Avatar
I prefer to leave the paper on, adds a lot of strength IMHO. The weight difference doesn't matter much for my style of flying
May 31, 2010, 02:26 AM
Registered User
Got ahold of the foam from the Dollar Tree this afternoon. Great deal considering the same size sheets are 3x more at other stores and with paper that is much more difficult to remove.

I cut the pieces with the paper on and then removed the paper using the instructions from forlack. Worked like a charm using the LA Totally Awesome cleaner. I was tempted to leave the paper on, but I'll deviate from the instructions after I get a better handle on making these foamies.

Regarding WD40, wouldn't that leave a residue? The water and LA cleaner may take a little longer, but leave no odor and no residue so I can do it in my bathroom without my wife complaining.

I'll complete the build of the wing tomorrow and then I'll have to put an order for the motor, ESC, servos and battery as I don't have spares laying about. I guess it will be at least a week before I can attempt a flight. I'm really looking forward to it.
May 31, 2010, 02:45 AM
Registered User
mpthompson- Have fun! I am building version 2 tomorrow as well and looking forward to it. The paper does add strength but it also doubles the weight of the foam, which isn't too big of a deal on this plane, but ever ounce counts. Take some pictures of the build.

Chase
May 31, 2010, 02:56 AM
Boooriiiiing.
MadMonkey572's Avatar
I just measured the CG as flown today, and it's just about exactly 5.5" back. Seems right to me! I'll pick up a different prop tomorrow and try for a little more speed. Gotta get another box of foam, too
May 31, 2010, 05:13 AM
Ken's CAD Models
dz1sfb's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by forlack
Thanks Ken. What kind of thrust, pitch speed are they getting. I had some 8043SF that buzzed at higher RPMs, but that was on 3s and a different motor. Are they having anything like that? Thanks

Chase
Hi Chase,

Certainly on 3s that would be a problem, but on 2s we are not experiencing any problems like that. In fact they are very quiet. Here is a link to the post of the video with these planes with the power setup you have with the 7x6 SF prop. Not a great video. It was the maiden flight of the initial design in this series of models I'm working on. https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...2&postcount=80

I just tach'd the setup. I am getting 7500 rpm static with the 7x6 GWS SF prop. Thats 42.61 mph pitch speed.

Ken
Latest blog entry: Mini H Quad Project
May 31, 2010, 12:13 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by dz1sfb
Hi Chase,

Certainly on 3s that would be a problem, but on 2s we are not experiencing any problems like that. In fact they are very quiet. Here is a link to the post of the video with these planes with the power setup you have with the 7x6 SF prop. Not a great video. It was the maiden flight of the initial design in this series of models I'm working on. https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...2&postcount=80

I just tach'd the setup. I am getting 7500 rpm static with the 7x6 GWS SF prop. Thats 42.61 mph pitch speed.

Ken
Thanks Ken. I was trying to find some data on the 7x6 GWS and I found some prop data running on an 1700kv silver wonder on headsuprc. Here is an excerpt.

The TP 7x6E produces about 9.5 ounces of thrust at 7.5 amps with a pitch speed of 50 mph.

The GWS EP 7060 prop produces about 10 ounces of thrust at 8.5 amps with a pitch speed of 42 mph.

Looks like you are getting pretty close to their data. I actually ordered the TP 7x6E (APC-E) from them yesterday just because they claimed a higher pitch speed with a little lower current draw. I'll let you know how they perform. Thanks for the info about the 7x6 props on 2s.

Chase
May 31, 2010, 12:40 PM
Registered User
doggit's Avatar
in regard to WD40 i dont think it leaves much of a residue, it mainly stays on the paper, and it dissolves the glue so the paper just peels right off, and i spoke to an old timer engineer and he says they use to use it as a hand cleaner, and it is suppose to keep your skin soft, so if any residue left, it wont harm you or the foam
carl
May 31, 2010, 12:46 PM
Registered User
forlack, I found the motor on HK, but can you tell me what specific ESC and batteries your are using (ie, the C rating and weight)? I'll eventually learn this stuff for myself, but for now it would be best to just copy something that is already working.

I'll post some pics of my own buildup soon.


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