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Apr 29, 2010, 04:12 PM
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Discussion

PIK 20 by Pat Teagle - comments?


Hi,
I have a freind about to build a Teagle PIK 20 1/4 scale kit. It looks pretty good but I was wondering if there were any issues with them?
It's a very old kit now so there must have been many built, particularly in the UK.
It has a glass fuse with obechie veneer over foam wings with some sort of spar structure. Feels fairly stiff.
Are there any -
Construction tricks?
Structural problems?
Could you winch it or should it be limited to slope and air tow? (wing strength?)
Any handling issues in flight?
Any other advice?

Cheers

Allan
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Apr 30, 2010, 07:33 AM
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Big Nuts 181's Avatar
Hi there Allan, my pic 20 is around 20 years old now and was finished in 3/4 glass cloth with good quality laminating epoxy. The wing spar system works well but I would recomend bringing the drive system up to date with servos in the wings. Mine originally didn't have flaps but they are worth the effort. mine was fitted with 375mm double height airbrakes and a 1/4 scale retract.
All in all Patts Pic 20 is a gorgous model to fly. Can I add the only real downfall is the glass layup being of chopped matt and would highly recomend some 3oz cloth around the retract cutout and would sugest gluing in the fin post with silicone adhesive wrather than epoxy as it with allow the fin to flex wrather than fracture at the base as mine did in an unplanned arival.

cheers Rossco.
May 02, 2010, 05:13 PM
Registered User
Thanks for the reply Rossco, all good suggestions and noted.
Any idea of the flying weight? Have you ever winched it? Any photos?

Allan
May 03, 2010, 05:31 AM
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Big Nuts 181's Avatar
hey there Allen, from memory the all up weight was around 8-9lb and I can't see any reason why it couldn't be winched as the wings are definately strong enough but mine was only ever aerotowed or sloped.

cheers Rossco.
May 03, 2010, 03:47 PM
Registered User
Sounds good, yes the wings fell pretty stiff and there is a spar structure.
We were thinking of filming the wings and a finished weight around 7 pounds based on weighing the components and allowing a lump of nose lead. Your glass and paint and a retract would have added the extra.
I like the idea of crow brakes that can be fitted to the Pik without compromising the scale aspect.
Should be nice and pretty rare model.

All the best

Allan
May 03, 2010, 04:13 PM
Registered User
Hi Allan,

7lbs would be a real achievement. Most work out at 9 - 10lbs, and I've seen one fly at 13lbs! The models don't seem to mind much how heavy they are.

Bet you have loads of fun with it!

Rog
May 03, 2010, 04:23 PM
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Seadog's Avatar

Winching


I've winched mine (9 lbs) with no problems, with a moderate zoom. I think 9 is going to be about your minimum base weight as mine has no "extras" and only a single servo for the airbrakes.

It's a nice flyer although mine has a bit of a tip stall tendency. I aerotow it off the grass on its belly as I have no retract installed, and that works fine too.

Dave Smith
May 03, 2010, 06:33 PM
Registered User
Thanks Guys, Seadog, I had a look at the wing plan in John Hazels LiftRoll spread sheet and it indicates a midspan stall which should result in it dropping either one wing or the other as there appears to be no washout in the wings. Looks manageable though. It's fun to play with this sheet. indicates that the washout would actually be need right in toward the center rather than at the tip.

Allan
May 04, 2010, 05:17 AM
Registered User
That's interesting Alan. A friend cured the tipstall on his Teakle Pik by making a new pair of ailerons out of solid balsa with about 5mm washout, all glassed.

Rog
May 05, 2010, 04:03 AM
Registered Slopeaphile
awmeade's Avatar
Still building mine! It's been 2 years now, but other things have got in the way. I have carbon-clothed the forward "bath tub" to strengthen the nose and undercarriage area. I haven't put a rudder post in yet, so the silicone idea is greatly appreciated, many thanks.

Mine also has flaps and spoilers. I have chased in servo wires to the aileron servos to do away with the mile-and-a-half of bowden cable originally in these. Also moving my elevator servo to be mounted in the tailplane itself.

I have tried to find a decent (but cheap!) quarter scale retract, but have ended up making my own from 1/16th ply / carbon / ply laminations from an Italian plan here on RCG. Might use it or might stop being a cheapskate.
May 05, 2010, 06:31 AM
Registered User
AWMeade
Many thanks for posting your PIK20 photos which I found most informative. I would be very interested to see further photos of the glider as the build progresses and in return I will post some photos of my PIK20 as I try to follow in your footsteps. As you may have guessed I am the other PIK20 builder mentioned by Allan in his opening post - I thought it was about time to join in the discussion in person.

Your glider has progressed very rapidly in comparison to mine, as I originally bought the kit in the UK in 1993! After doing some of the straightforward jobs during 93/4, such as fitting the leading and trailing edges of the wings/tailplane and making the rudder and steel wing joiner, progress was halted by marriage, career, children and moving house several times. The PIK20 in its very large cardboard box was consigned to the 'attic' where it remained for many years gathering dust. I am now living in New Zealand and work part-time, so I finally have some spare hours in the day for the more important things in life, like building and flying.

All the best with your model building and thanks again for the great photos.
May 05, 2010, 06:40 AM
Registered Slopeaphile
awmeade's Avatar
Hi there Fishbed.
You lucky swine! I'd love to emigrate to NZ - lovely looking area and great slopes too. Will try and keep the thread updated as and when I do work on it. Good luck with yours too!
Cheers,
Andy
May 05, 2010, 07:56 PM
Registered User

Liftroll


Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanK1
Thanks Guys, Seadog, I had a look at the wing plan in John Hazels LiftRoll spread sheet and it indicates a midspan stall which should result in it dropping either one wing or the other as there appears to be no washout in the wings. Looks manageable though. It's fun to play with this sheet. indicates that the washout would actually be need right in toward the center rather than at the tip.

Allan
I have attached the Lift Roll output with some washout. Most of the wasout is in the first 23 inches of the wing going out from the root. then a bit more at 46 inches then this -1.5Degrees is held until the tip without any further increase. This has the center area of the wing at higest Cl so it will stall first leaving the outer wings unstalled and still flying. That is the ideal.
I've used this program a lot and it always seems to produce a nicely behaved model in the real world. If anyone wants an active copy of the sheet it is available on the web, probably here http://webspace.webring.com/people/a...l/COOKBOOK.htm
For what it is worth.

Allan
May 05, 2010, 08:22 PM
yyz
yyz
Registered User
yyz's Avatar
AW,

There are several retracts currently for sale in the "Wanted/For Sale" section.

Also, can you post some more pictures of your fuselage. I haven't seen many Pik's in the scale forum,

Mike


Quote:
Originally Posted by awmeade
Still building mine! It's been 2 years now, but other things have got in the way. I have carbon-clothed the forward "bath tub" to strengthen the nose and undercarriage area. I haven't put a rudder post in yet, so the silicone idea is greatly appreciated, many thanks.

Mine also has flaps and spoilers. I have chased in servo wires to the aileron servos to do away with the mile-and-a-half of bowden cable originally in these. Also moving my elevator servo to be mounted in the tailplane itself.

I have tried to find a decent (but cheap!) quarter scale retract, but have ended up making my own from 1/16th ply / carbon / ply laminations from an Italian plan here on RCG. Might use it or might stop being a cheapskate.
May 07, 2010, 04:19 AM
Registered User
Also in New Zealand and I've brought in two of Pats kits the ASW 20 and 22.
Both great models which are extremely cost effective and both great builds.
The 22 is still one of my favourite planes having had it in the air since around 2000.
As to the spar system, Pat has used in the past a top and bottom Ramin wood spars 1/2 inch x 1/4 wilth Graupner 14mm wing blade joiners into brass receptor tubes.
These Ramin spars are fine and should be relied upon for both winching and general sope flying including loops. I have personally witness my 22 with wings bending like a boomerang going up on the winch, entering a thermal and breaking the 70kg line whilst the wings remain intact.
I do not know whether Pat is still using this spar material currently.


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