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Jun 06, 2014, 10:27 AM
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FliteMetal's Avatar
Thread OP

Meat & Potatoes


Many of you will be glad to see some physical evidence this project is real and not simply a hypothetical discussion.
That's perfectly OK if you thought that, as a lot of thought, many thoughts were processed before physical evidence
could be achieved beyond computer plots tacked to my dinning room wall and converted analog drawings.

We have achieved the following:

1. Test milled inboard nacelle (sans pylon)
A. Corrected geometry consequence of too few polygons
B. Physical dim: 30.6456" long, 10.9481 wide, 7.5000 tall



2. Test milled outboard nacelle (sans pylon)
A. Corrected geometry consequence of too few polygons
B. Physical dim:

3. Final Fuselage CADCAM Slice & Dice (sans Nav/Bmb Station)
A. Post edit polygon count 30k+. (*AR-STEP-STL format path)
B. 'tween STA 316.5000 and
C. Physical dim: 28.9224" long, 13.2777" wide, 14.8038" tall





*AR is the Ashlar-Vellum native image default.
Last edited by FliteMetal; Jun 06, 2014 at 01:10 PM.
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Aug 10, 2014, 01:34 PM
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Any further improvements? Congrats on 3D design!
Aug 10, 2014, 02:05 PM
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FliteMetal's Avatar
Thread OP

Improvements Or Fulfillment


Quote:
Originally Posted by F86_sabre
Any further improvements? Congrats on 3D design!
Thanks for asking!

Pick an aspect of this and the answer is "yes", regardless of what it is Currently investigating
utilizing a poly-resin coating applied directly to the Styrene instead of the normal laminating with
balsa and resin adhered .60 to the sq yd equal thread diameter glass cloth.

Specifically, Wow Planes polyurea resin. This weekend dedicated to preparation for the application
tomorrow. This will be videoed as each coat can be recoated every twenty minutes with another
flow-coat distributed with foam brush. This is spread evenly across surface where it is self leveling.



There are a total of 14 individual test surfaces comprising the inboard nacelle. My test is applied
to the first inboard nacelle. Below you will see the rear fluted end of the nacelle in the lower right
corner of this image. The size of the first test piece is from red across exhaust duct to end of nacelle.



The above image shows the overall sections of the nacelle, however there are a total of 7 sections
with top, bottom, left and right side surfaces. The test of this material is to determine its tensile for
its resistance to normal wear and tear/use.

Note, there is no T/C tension and compression concern as this, like 80% of all our surfaces are not
load bearing components. These surfaces are purely cosmetic, yet they have to be hard surfaced
to resist dents and normal handling during assembly, flight and transport.

Aside from the afore mentioned removable pylon blade shown below, the entire nacelle shape does
not contribute to any strength other than the birfurcated exhaust ducts are hot wired from exits
forward to the rear face of the Dynamax. The ducts are coated with the Wow Planes foam hardner
instead of using traditional Mylar or fiber glass molded exhaust ducting.

The nacelle is split into halves along its vertical center line permitting maximum access to internal
EDF, ESC, Fan, Motor, lowest battery pack, and outrigger retract components and of course Liquid
Sheeting must be hard to permit the application of to the entire aircraft.

Each individual section being tested is subjected to destructive analysis...aka review to verify Wow
Planes Liquid Sheeting will equal or surpass traditional laminated and glassed construction.

During evaluation, the reason for applying to each individual section instead of gluing all of them
together then coating it is if I did that I would have to cut into the foam to observe its thickness,
determine the ability to coat thin feather edged foam and it be as good or better than traditional
lamination.

By placing large clear packing tape on the flat portion of the nacelle part, where the red line appears
in the lower right image I can simply peel it off to measure the Liquid Sheeting thickness.
Last edited by FliteMetal; May 08, 2018 at 08:36 PM.
Aug 10, 2014, 05:02 PM
EDF rules... :)
AirX's Avatar
Try this:

http://www.industrialpolymers.com/pr...st/styrospray/

Here is a link to application:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=1804001

In this thread the OP shows how he works with Styrospray or liquid sheeting.

Cheer,
Eric B..
Aug 10, 2014, 06:18 PM
Registered User
FliteMetal's Avatar
Thread OP

Styrospray Difference From Wow Planes Liquid Sheeting


Quote:
Originally Posted by AirX
Try this:
http://www.industrialpolymers.com/pr...st/styrospray/
Here is a link to application:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=1804001
In this thread the OP shows how he works with Styrospray or liquid sheeting.
Cheer,
Eric B..
Eric,

Wow Planes Liquid Sheeting is "spread" onto surface in one single direction. It is not brushed in.
However I am going to use 1" & 2" foam brushes to spread it evenly across the surface. It is a self
leveling product applied in multiple coats after each has cured for 20 minutes.

The threads you reference are not relative to our project. This is a 158.7783" wingspan EDF that
has to weigh 33 pounds sans batteries to legally compete in FAI F4C. There are huge tension and
compression mechanics at play with respect to the wing alone. There is not less than a 4" rise of
the wing tip at ROG.

I shall see how well the Liquid Sheeting builds a hard surface Vs. its accumulative weight. BS walks
when the evidence shows up after she wakes up the morning after... Considering we stand to loose
close to 10 pounds or more if this test is successful, I certainly hope it works

I have looked for any large model project using Liquid Sheeting and the largest I have found was a
B17 on the Wow Planes web site. It appeared to be the same size as the Royal B-17... just under
79" w/s.

Anyone know of an 80 to 100 inch w/s "scale" model which used the Wow Planes Liquid Sheeting?
Last edited by FliteMetal; May 08, 2018 at 08:39 PM.
Aug 11, 2014, 06:39 AM
EDF rules... :)
AirX's Avatar
I can see why no one wants to post to your threads if this is how you treat them.

Good luck with your project, since I live in the Houston area I will get to see it flies or fails, which ever occurs.

Cheers,
Eric B.
Aug 11, 2014, 08:27 AM
Registered User
FliteMetal's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirX
I can see why no one wants to post to your threads
if this is how you treat them. Good luck with your project, since I live in the
Houston area I will get to see it flies or fails, which ever occurs. Cheers,
Eric B.
Wow Eric,

Just what was it that stepped on your toes? I simply described our findings
and the fact there have not been any large models skinned with Wow Planes
Liquid Sheeting...

Where in Houston do you fly? Our two B-47 will be flown at 1:1 airports then
later at FBRC.

One of the videos you posted showed an EPO foam being "brushed" with the
Styrospray product, then when cured is bowed showing "0" T/C attribute. I
do not understand how that video relates to our two B-47s? This somehow
must be a point of misunderstanding on my part as I do not understand what
that has to do with what I am doing...

I see that you have experience with CAD. Is this a profession or hobby related?

Sam and I purchased a 2' x 4' pre-fab CNC mill and about to put it to work. Next
is a CNC four axis hot wire. My mill tests were done at a friend's shop in Arlington.
There are two test mills of my inboard nacelle, the smaller is the one I am testing
Liquid Sheeting on.

Below is the larger of the two. You can clearly see the individual milled sections
which will permit us to test the sheer strength of Liquid Sheeting.




Last edited by FliteMetal; Aug 17, 2014 at 02:11 PM.
Aug 11, 2014, 05:33 PM
EDF rules... :)
AirX's Avatar
Hi Fliemetal,

I followed you thread at Wattflyer and saw that you wanted information on liquid sheeting, since I have Styrospray spray and the end results are similar enough I posted to this thread. The way you addressed the information as being un-useful kinda hit me wrong after your posts at Wattflyer were lamenting the fact that no one had posted any information on your request for information.

Have you gone to Industrial Polymers on beltway 8 to see their product, the coatings very nice but not the structural load bearing material that epoxy/glass is at the thickness you might want for keeping weight in check and I am sure it's the same for liquid sheeting. You will still need to have internal load bearing structure.

I fly at Scobee, Alvin, and have been a member of Space City in Katy.

I work in 3d at a multi-national here in Houston, I work with Autodesk Inventor.

I must have posted the wrong link, I will have took at it.
This post had the information I was trying to get across: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...9&postcount=47

Eric B.
Last edited by AirX; Aug 11, 2014 at 05:38 PM. Reason: Added information.
Aug 11, 2014, 08:29 PM
Registered User
FliteMetal's Avatar
Thread OP
Eric,

These are explicit chemical blends of resin polymers, some with caustic consequence and
others which are virtually harmless. We do not assume anything about them as they can
be extremely dangerous in their uncured state. For your health's sake stop assuming that
anything is like something else in this hobby!!!

The explicit, not kinda sorta attribute desired is cosmetic sheer strength...not load bearing.
As you discovered in the WattFlyer thread all load bearing elements are either to the truss
within our fuselage or to the wing spars cantilevered to the truss.

Our entire fuselage structure is a facade relative to load bearing issues.

Considering the B-47's are to be covered in , what would you guess
to be the issue?

My post on WattFlyer relative to looking for feedback from its subscribers, they for the most
part have had no experience constructing an AMA 515, FAI F4C competitive flying scale model,
nor what is required to compete with it when constructed. Thread has served as an excellent
Q &A session for everyone. it is my desire to recruit new participants in scale contests.

The build project was placed in WattFlyer because it is an electric powered model and I thought
it the proper place since there are multiple focuses on scratch projects in RCU and RCG.
Last edited by FliteMetal; Aug 17, 2014 at 02:24 PM.
Aug 11, 2014, 10:07 PM
Pro Hoarder
turbonut's Avatar
What is cosmetic sheer? sounds made up?...But I may be wrong
Latest blog entry: In flight
Aug 11, 2014, 10:23 PM
Registered User
FliteMetal's Avatar
Thread OP

We'll Soon Know More About Properties Of StyroSpray


Some interesting physical properties. Yes, cosmetic sheer would be point at which surface
is deformed rendering it beyond use for my purposes as one of my poster children.

Mechanical/Tensile sheer would be its load bearing properties. These are typically found
in a manufacturer's disclosure documentation...aka MSDM declaration.

For both I provide those interested like I am, you should be pleased reading this.





I have plans to meet with IP tomorrow to discuss my requirement. I will report my
findings after our meeting and I have a chance to do a little destructive testing to
see how much abuse an XPS can take before deformation.

Be prepared to smile...partner

Dino-Bull EPS Foam Sculpture Coated with StyroSpray 1000 Hard Coat (0 min 31 sec)
Last edited by FliteMetal; May 08, 2018 at 08:47 PM.
Aug 12, 2014, 04:28 PM
Registered User
FliteMetal's Avatar
Thread OP
An interesting meeting this afternoon. IP's David Boddie, aka bull rider... :^)

Answered all my questions though my actual application was not what he was
used to discussing. That being its' 158.77" w/s. I was satisfied after I placed a
product sample through some destructive testing.

Quite literally the sample showed "0" sign that I tried to destroy the sample.
No scratches, no gouges, no breaks, no fracturing. Unbelievably STRONG ! ! !

Video sooner than later.
Aug 12, 2014, 04:39 PM
Registered User

Target Date for First Flight???


Hi Ed!

I see you are still progressing on the B-47. Any forecast of a first flight date/year?

Cheers,

Dave Plummer
Aug 12, 2014, 05:02 PM
Registered User
FliteMetal's Avatar
Thread OP

Assembly In Process, If We Ever Reach Minimum Weight


Quote:
Originally Posted by David F. Plummer
Hi Ed! I see you are still progressing on the B-47.
Any forecast of a first flight date/year? Cheers, Dave Plummer
Hi Dave,

Good to read your post. Hope this finds you and your's in good spirits and health this HOT
(101F) Tuesday.

Of late I have been sheding pounds as we stepped up to milling the non-load bearing portions.
Glad to report I think I just shed another three to four today. Want to get it down in the 20's
sans batteries.

For those who do not know Dave, he designed and constructed an excellent B-47 @ 1/16th
scale. Dave, a former Boeing employee, replicated the Stratojet gate guard at the Museum
Of Flight in Seattle.

Dave's as well as our two B-47 build thread(s) are in WattFlyer.com.

The next FAI F4C is 2016 with qualifier a year away so we want to attend it we are closing
in on the next six months which Sam and I see as doable. We get there when we get there.
Last edited by FliteMetal; Aug 13, 2014 at 10:13 AM.
Aug 15, 2014, 09:39 AM
Official Boat Bum
Eddie P's Avatar
Ed, I'm looking forward to your progress. I've started a semi-large (mid size as far as large goes) build myself, 1/16 scale DC-8. 141" long fuselage. Planning on using Flite Metal for some parts of the finish - most of the fuselage is paint per typical 1960's-70's airliner but wings and stabs are metal.

In what capacity exactly will you be using Styrospary? Will you be using over bare wood with no fiberglass underlay - or will you be using it in conjunction with glass cloth?

I have a quantity of Styrospray on hand I was planning to use for some of my engine nacelle work since it is not so much structural as it is an aerodynamic and scale fairing in general.


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