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Nov 11, 2011, 04:39 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar

Flailers


On a plane like the SS/Bix, what would be the effects of flaps vs spoilers (in this case, flaps deploying upwards) afa flight & landing performance?
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Nov 11, 2011, 04:48 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44
On a plane like the SS/Bix, what would be the effects of flaps vs spoilers (in this case, flaps deploying upwards) afa flight & landing performance?
Different effects for different conditions. If the Bix is coming in too fast for your liking you can slow it down by deploying flaps to reduce stall speed. If winds are sweeping it up and you just can't get it DOWN without building up too much speed, spoilers are helpful. Spoilers can also make spot landings easier. Come in higher than normal and use them to drop right in.

Neither are necessary on the Bix unless you are in cramped spaces (flaps) or are slope soaring (spoiler). I've almost lost a glider to slope soaring with too much wind w/o spoilers. Ended up having to climb the hill while flying so I could land on the back-side.
Nov 11, 2011, 06:23 PM
i Like RC
Weekend Flyer's Avatar
Does anyone have any flight video of a Bixler showing the difference between a 2200kv and a 3900kv motor? It would be interesting to see.
Nov 11, 2011, 06:27 PM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44
On a plane like the SS/Bix, what would be the effects of flaps vs spoilers (in this case, flaps deploying upwards) afa flight & landing performance?
I have both on one Skysurfer. High angle flaps provided the greatest benefit for short field landings. I posted a video a while back that illustrated the difference. Plus, when you go to high angle spoilerons you have to avoid steering the plane with ailerons and switch to the rudder.
Nov 11, 2011, 06:56 PM
i Like RC
Weekend Flyer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogueqd
Thanks Arck.

Aussies can get UHU Por from this eBay seller.
In the US and Canada UHU Por is sold as UHU Creativ. It can be purchased at Michaels or Staples. The Twist & Glue is supposed to be good for foam.


Michaels

Staples
Nov 11, 2011, 09:26 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq
Different effects for different conditions. If the Bix is coming in too fast for your liking you can slow it down by deploying flaps to reduce stall speed. If winds are sweeping it up and you just can't get it DOWN without building up too much speed, spoilers are helpful. Spoilers can also make spot landings easier. Come in higher than normal and use them to drop right in.

Neither are necessary on the Bix unless you are in cramped spaces (flaps) or are slope soaring (spoiler). I've almost lost a glider to slope soaring with too much wind w/o spoilers. Ended up having to climb the hill while flying so I could land on the back-side.
...and...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100
I have both on one Skysurfer. High angle flaps provided the greatest benefit for short field landings. I posted a video a while back that illustrated the difference. Plus, when you go to high angle spoilerons you have to avoid steering the plane with ailerons and switch to the rudder.
On the HK6DF Tx the flap control (Ch.6) is a turnable knob as opposed to a switch. I got to thinking.....I could install flaps and set them to 'zero' position with this knob at a midway point in its rotation, and by rotating it either one direction or other, would have the alternative of activating either flaps or spoilers, assisted a bit by judicious throw settings. You both confirm my thoughts of where they could apply....I can see where having the choice would be advantageous for different situations.
Any thoughts re practicality?
Nov 11, 2011, 09:34 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44
On the HK6DF Tx the flap control (Ch.6) is a turnable knob as opposed to a switch. I got to thinking.....I could install flaps and set them to 'zero' position with this knob at a midway point in its rotation, and by rotating it either one direction or other, would have the alternative of activating either flaps or spoilers, assisted a bit by judicious throw settings. You both confirm my thoughts of where they could apply....I can see where having the choice would be advantageous for different situations.
Any thoughts re practicality?
Sound like a great idea. Some expo might make the centering of this knob a little less critical. Keep us posted.
Nov 12, 2011, 05:17 AM
Me a long time ago
Flypoppa's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44
On a plane like the SS/Bix, what would be the effects of flaps vs spoilers (in this case, flaps deploying upwards) afa flight & landing performance?
I made flaps for my Bixler. Why? Because it is a floater and when landing I found it difficult to get it to stop within a couple of paces of where I was.
The flaps work well and I can now control the landing.
I should add that I had to mix in a bit of down elevator with the flap function.
I once tried so called 'flaperons' on another model, but I found the control was difficult, so that was scrapped.
Having the flaps going up instead of down, makes them 'brakes' not spoilers.
Spoilers are normally fitted On the top of the wing.
Nov 12, 2011, 05:55 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44
...and...


On the HK6DF Tx the flap control (Ch.6) is a turnable knob as opposed to a switch. I got to thinking.....I could install flaps and set them to 'zero' position with this knob at a midway point in its rotation, and by rotating it either one direction or other, would have the alternative of activating either flaps or spoilers, assisted a bit by judicious throw settings. You both confirm my thoughts of where they could apply....I can see where having the choice would be advantageous for different situations.
Any thoughts re practicality?
I was playing with the Flaperon mixing on my FUTABA 6J the other day. The instructions have you connecting right wing servo to CH1 and Left wing to CH6., and then enabling Flaperon Mixing. This causes both ailerons to move down when rotating the know CW and both ailerons to move up when rotating the knob CCW( neutral with the knob centered) while still having independent operation with the right stick. I have not tried this in flight yet because it has been quite windy here lately (even snow the other day!). I was, at the time, trying to figure out how to have them start out at nuetral and only move down, not realizing the possible bennifit of having the upwrd movement. hopefully next week I'll be off of night shift and the weather will be better.
Nov 12, 2011, 06:04 AM
Why so serious?
2500GENE's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jam1e
Apologies if i read your post wrong 2500GENE

I've had a go at obtaining some data for you. Please bear in mind i'm not an "electronics guru" and my mathmatics is terrible!!

The set-up was as follows -

MOTOR -
Turnigy: 2835 (380S)
Speed: 3900kv
ESC Required: 40A
Voltage Range: 6~12v
No Load Curr: 2.0A
Max Load: 40A

SPEED CONTROLLER -
Force Controll FCBL (This is a cheap all purpose esc)
45 amp continuous
60 amp Burst

LIPO BATTERY -
Rhino 3s
Capacity : 2250mAh
Constant discharge: 25C
Burst rate: 37C (15sec)
Configuration : 3S 11.1v

I used a "Watts Up" meter to produce the data. Link below if your interested
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=468

The results were as follows -

APC 5X5 Pusher Prop
Watts 580 dropping down to a steady 500
AMPS 53 dropping down to a steady 50

Hobby King "EMP" 6X4 Pusher Prop
Watts 660 dropping down to a steady 570
AMPS 60 dropping down to a steady 54

The figures were taken directly from my watt meter as i saw them
Just to add that after carrying out the data testing, the motor was quite hot. It was definately not too hot to hold, but was close to that point. Obviously exceeding the limits of the motor, it was always going to be hot! However, it was continuous WOT and didn't have any airflow over it, that it would get if in the air.
Speed controller and lipo battery were just slightly warm.
One last point. I've always found Rhino lipos from Hobbyking to be very good. But mine are getting on abit and no doubt not at there peak any more.
Thanks Jam1e for doing that and posting the results.
By reading the voltage under load it can give you an idea of the batteries condition. Where a new bat may hold 11 or so volts over a period of time a older more used one will drop into the 10s and lower as its condition deteriorates, much more quickly.
Thanks again for the info.
Nov 12, 2011, 06:07 AM
Why so serious?
2500GENE's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq
That said, I like SH and enjoy his posts more than anyone's on this thread. Good information and entertaining to boot. But we all do a little hand-waving from time to time.
I usually do a bit of finger waving when I read his post but I guess that's the Jersey in me.
Nov 12, 2011, 06:51 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2500GENE
I usually do a bit of finger waving when I read his post but I guess that's the Jersey in me.
*LOL*
(If only you knew!)
Nov 12, 2011, 06:57 AM
Me a long time ago
Flypoppa's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2500GENE
I usually do a bit of finger waving when I read his post but I guess that's the Jersey in me.
And I thought that it was you that wrote his scripts.
Nov 12, 2011, 07:04 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2500GENE
Thanks Jam1e for doing that and posting the results.
By reading the voltage under load it can give you an idea of the batteries condition. Where a new bat may hold 11 or so volts over a period of time a older more used one will drop into the 10s and lower as its condition deteriorates, much more quickly.
Thanks again for the info.
Something I've wondered about -- with the massive extensivity of these fora, there's prolly somewhere where it's either covered or has been touched upon, but I have no earthly idea where to look.......wondering if any practical uses have been found for batts that'll still hold a charge, but not enough for our RC equipment. As much as they cost, seems a shame to just have to 'toss'* a rechargable resource after they're past their prime.

*'Toss' generically, knowing there's a right way to go about it, environmentally & hazardous waste & all that rot. Which raises another topical point. Our club SO, last meeting, read a directive AMA has issued concerning disposal (of old and/or damaged packs) - anybody heard / read that? To best of my memory, cut off the wires (point was made to save your connectors, you cheapskate ), soak LiPo in salt water for 48 hours & you can just drop it in the household trash.

But whatsay -- found any uses for the 'oldies-but-still-goodies'??
Nov 12, 2011, 07:17 AM
Me a long time ago
Flypoppa's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44
Something I've wondered about -- with the massive extensivity of these fora, there's prolly somewhere where it's either covered or has been touched upon, but I have no earthly idea where to look.......wondering if any practical uses have been found for batts that'll still hold a charge, but not enough for our RC equipment. As much as they cost, seems a shame to just have to 'toss'* a rechargable resource after they're past their prime.

*'Toss' generically, knowing there's a right way to go about it, environmentally & hazardous waste & all that rot. Which raises another topical point. Our club SO, last meeting, read a directive AMA has issued concerning disposal (of old and/or damaged packs) - anybody heard / read that? To best of my memory, cut off the wires (point was made to save your connectors, you cheapskate ), soak LiPo in salt water for 48 hours & you can just drop it in the household trash.
But whatsay -- found any uses for the 'oldies-but-still-goodies'??
I use them for testing. If they are too far gone like puffed. I take them in the yard and poke them with a pointed implement until they smoke. When they have cooled down I put them in the trash.


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