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Sep 23, 2011, 12:40 PM
Bay Area Prop Buster
Bluhammer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTF Thumper
This is one of my favorite relaxing videos of my Champ.
Nice music to fly a Champ by, well done.

Blu
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Sep 23, 2011, 01:52 PM
Big Jim
RTF Thumper's Avatar
Well this was my first bad day with Horizon Hobby, got my box last night and opened her up and low and behold no Champ Fuse or tail, but a Blade TX and blades for a Helli, and a little battery. Not my order, so I get on the phone.......1 hour of waiting on hold only interrupted three times by a sales rep getting on and getting there name out, I would start to explain and BAM cutoff and the hold game went again, finally got to the right spot and they would re-send the fuse, got a new order number. As I was asking what to do with the stuff I got, BAM music again then a a sales rep gets on and she finally decides to call me back as their phone system started the whole music thing while we were talking. I needed to add a tail to the fuse order because of the damage to the old one getting it off. She was nice enough to pick up the postage on the tail. Waiting for a call from Jason on what to do with the parts I got.
Sep 23, 2011, 01:57 PM
The figure "9" Specialist
aeronca's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTF Thumper
Well this was my first bad day with Horizon Hobby, got my box last night and opened her up and low and behold no Champ Fuse or tail, but a Blade TX and blades for a Helli, and a little battery. Not my order, so I get on the phone.......1 hour of waiting on hold only interrupted three times by a sales rep getting on and getting there name out, I would start to explain and BAM cutoff and the hold game went again, finally got to the right spot and they would re-send the fuse, got a new order number. As I was asking what to do with the stuff I got, BAM music again then a a sales rep gets on and she finally decides to call me back as their phone system started the whole music thing while we were talking. I needed to add a tail to the fuse order because of the damage to the old one getting it off. She was nice enough to pick up the postage on the tail. Waiting for a call from Jason on what to do with the parts I got.
I feel your misery, RTF. Waiting for your items to come is sufficiently frustrating, but to have the stuff finally arrive - and be wrong - is pure torture and never mind the phone marathon!

Aeronca
Sep 23, 2011, 02:04 PM
Big Jim
RTF Thumper's Avatar
Don't mean to complain, got to fly two other planes and that was great. Just miss the Champ
Sep 23, 2011, 02:09 PM
Bay Area Prop Buster
Bluhammer's Avatar
Maybe I'll be getting a PZ T-28 instead of my Champ back?
Blu
Sep 23, 2011, 02:10 PM
Suspended Account
B/c BluH has yours
Sep 23, 2011, 02:39 PM
Registered User
Time for (another) dumb question.

How are the pushrod ends held onto the pushrods?

I mean the end that attaches to the control surface.

Is that the world's tiniest piece of heat shrink tubing that I see there?

And, is any glue used with it? Either CA or epoxy or whatever?
Sep 23, 2011, 03:14 PM
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Sep 23, 2011, 03:18 PM
Big Jim
RTF Thumper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
Time for (another) dumb question.

How are the push rod ends held onto the push rods?

I mean the end that attachés to the control surface.

Is that the world's tiniest piece of heat shrink tubing that I see there?

And, is any glue used with it? Either CA or epoxy or whatever?
Yes shrink tube, CA after we knock them loose. I lit mine on fire (after removing from the plane) and melted it back on then used a dab of CA. the push rod is carbon fiber the bit that goes into the control horn is wire. Be ease with the heat.......just stick with CA its safer.
And all questions get asked and answered here. Just try to search the thread first, but I realize how much stuff is here. Fishycomics, and Ridgewalker are extremely heads up on repair and mods.
Sep 23, 2011, 03:31 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics
WHen new Pushrods are needed, you can get them seperately for around 5.00 shipped.

When you buy a new Fuse with Electronics they come.

and I am not sure when just a fuse alone.

there is heat shrink that holds them. to stop them from shifting any type of glue will do. hope that helps out. no pro here. If you put a flame to it 50/50 w you'll get it right or wrong. Best bet is notto place flame on it or near it a Super fast pass. it will not shirnk, it will melt.

If Heat shrink cannot be found. Electrical tape rolled around, then glue .
Yep, I got a new fuselage, and the pushrods and ends came with it. No electronics, just the bare fuselage.

Thanks all, sounds like time to break out the epoxy. Again.

I'm trying to build up a new Champ from scratch, with a 5-gram brushless motor from Hobby King, Turnigy 6A brushless ESC, and 180mAh 2s 7.4V battery. Will use a couple of 4.3 gram servos I had lying around, and a fairly standard 2.4GHz 4-channel FlySky system. Will take the receiver out of its case for pighter weight, hopefully it will fly.

It will be heavier than the factory Champ, of course, which is unfortunate. Might eventually put ailerons on it too, we'll see.
Sep 23, 2011, 03:40 PM
Elfi Flyer
Doug Sipprell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Is that the world's tiniest piece of heat shrink tubing that I see there? And, is any glue used with it? Either CA or epoxy or whatever?
0.8mm Black Heat Shrink Tubing, available through:

www.dealextreme.com
[email protected]

If you shrink the tubing sufficiently, you probably will not need any CA to seal the seam and two pieces (z-bend piece and control rod). Use a trim seal tool to partially shrink the tubing so as to hold the two pieces together, while you position the rudder or elevator for neutral position. Then complete the shrinking of the tubing, possibly add a drop of thin CA. If you go the CA route, however, you'll probably never get the z-bend rod and control rod to slide apart.

RD
Sep 23, 2011, 06:38 PM
Occupying RCG
olthump's Avatar
Actually, Doug, I learned the hard way that a twisting motion will seperate ca'd heat shrink. I glued mine 180 out.
Sep 23, 2011, 06:58 PM
Registered User
Looks like my Brushless Champ II is weighing in around 54 grams plus battery (a 180 mAh 2s 7.4V that hasn't arrived from Hobby King yet). HobbyKing says that battery weighs 15 grams (ugh), so it looks like the little fellow is going to weigh in at a grand total of 70 grams, once I figure out the wing attachment and get all the gluing done.

It uses a Turnigy Plush 6A brushless ESC with BEC, a Hobby King 5 gram brushless motor with prop saver, and a six(!) channel FlySky receiver with 4ch 2.4GHz transmitter. Removing the receiver case saved 3 grams, though the bare receiver PC board still weighs 5.5 grams. Plus two 4.3 gram servos that I had sitting around. Installation is fairly straightforward. Right now I've got a 5x3 GWS prop mounted, but that may be too much for this motor, despite what Hobby King says. Might go to a 4.5x3.

My original stock Champ I weighs 44 grams with battery, ready to fly. That includes some extra glue made necessary by the shedding of various wing panels at different times. It is in completely stock form, no changes from "factory original" except the glue.

So my brushless installation hasn't quite doubled the weight of the plane. Yeesh - I've never heard of a plane where that was done and it could still get off the ground. Or, if it did, it became an uncontrollable monster.

My whimsical fantasy of making a biplane out of it, may become a necessity instead. I even have an extra wing, though there's no known way (yet) of mounting a second wing to the bottom of the fuselage.

Future project: Champ III might have one of the brushless micro bricks from Hobby King, and the FSH transmitter it needs. That may be the only way to go brushless with presently-available equipment, and keep the weight down to sane limits. Not sure yet if I'll use a 1s or 2s battery for this future project.
Last edited by Little-Acorn; Sep 23, 2011 at 07:07 PM.
Sep 23, 2011, 07:05 PM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar
Thumper that really bites man..
Hope then will give you some kind of compensation for the trouble they caused you....wonder if the guy who was waiting for his heli blades and tx got your Champ.

Blu...You never know!....er' maybe a Super Cub.

Little-Acorn...The Champ can handel a bit of extra weight.
On a Mustang motor i had mine up to 85 g and it flew alright...not the quickest Champ on the block as far as climbing,but was good in the wind!

My brushless Champ is at 62 g and flys well...slow or fast.


Today i did some flying with the Champ in a city setting near a baseball stadium next to a river.
Hand launched from the side of the road next to a small dirt lot

Was a bit of wind up there so it helped me hover to get some steady shots.
Will be returning to this location.

Video will be ready shortly.

Ridgewalker
Sep 23, 2011, 07:08 PM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Looks like my Brushless Champ is weighing in around 54 grams plus battery (a 180 mAh 2s 7.4V that hasn't arrived from Hobby King yet). HobbyKing says that battery weighs 15 grams (ugh), so it looks like the little fellow is going to weigh in at a grand total of 70 grams, once I figure out the wing attachment and get all the gluing done.

It uses a Turnigy Plush 6A brushless ESC with BEC, a Hobby King 5 gram brushless motor with prop saver, and a six(!) channel FlySky receiver with 4ch 2.4GHz transmitter. Removing the receiver case saved 3 grams, though the bare receiver PC board still weighs 5.5 grams. Plus two 4.3 gram servos that I had sitting around. Installation is fairly straightforward. Right now I've got a 5x3 GWS prop mounted, but that may be too much for this motor, despite what Hobby King says. Might go to a 4.5x3.

My original stock Champ weighs 44 grams with battery, ready to fly. That includes some extra glue made necessary by the shedding of various wing panels at different times.

So my brushless installation hasn't quite doubled the weight of the plane. Yeesh - I've never heard of a plane where that was done and it could still get off the ground. Or, if it did, it became an uncontrollable monster.

My whimsical fantasy of making a biplane out of it, may become a necessity instead. I even have an extra wing, though there's no known way (yet) of mounting a second wing to the bottom of the fuselage.

Future project: Champ III might have one of the brushless micro bricks from Hobby King, and the FSH transmitter it needs. That may be the only way to go brushless with presently-available equipment, and keep the weight down to sane limits. Not sure yet if I'll use a 1s or 2s battery.
It will fly!
My e-flite 180 2s is 12g and my home built 2s hyperions are 11g.

You are going to enjoy the power!!...i do.

Have you seen my video with the battery mounted on the inside?


City Sights...from the Champ

Here is the video...




Ridgewalker
Last edited by ridgewalker; Sep 23, 2011 at 07:43 PM. Reason: add vid
Sep 23, 2011, 09:15 PM
Registered User
Hello, i've been reading this forum for weeks now, and have learned alot just by reading threads. I bought champ 2 months ago and have been addicted ever since. so far i have bought champ, t-28, and i had to have mossy, as well as a dx6i. Wow talk about addicted. now i just have to make sure wife dosen't see the credit card statement! i love reading all the info that you have all learned and have found it entertaining, thoughtfull and most importantly informative. after a stressful day at work there is nothing better than taking the champ for a quick flight in the back 40 and totally zoning out doing touch and goes or close flybuys. all of your info has been invaluable and taught me alot about rc flight (something i have wanted to try for the last 15yrs) the champ being the one that made it all possible. so thanks for the help thus far.
Sep 23, 2011, 09:25 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Future project: Champ III might have one of the brushless micro bricks from Hobby King, and the FSH transmitter it needs. That may be the only way to go brushless with presently-available equipment, and keep the weight down to sane limits. Not sure yet if I'll use a 1s or 2s battery for this future project.
RADIO STUFF:

Interesting microbrick from Hobby King:

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._one_5ch_.html

Contains 5-channel 2.4 GHz receiver, 3.5A brushless ESC, and two servos, all on one board. Hobby King says it weighs 2.9 grams "without wires" - but who flies it without wires? FHSS modulation, meaning it won't work with many transmitters. Also runs on 3.5 - 4.2V, meaning it's restricted to 1s LiPo batteries. So the Hobby King 5-gram motor might not be a good match, people are running those up to 3x.

Another microbrick similar to above except the two servos are side-by-side instead of tandem, this one weighs 3.1 grams "without wires"

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._one_5ch_.html

Here's a 6ch 2.4GHz FHSS transmitter from Hobby King. Anybody know if it will work with the above microbricks?

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...x_Mode_2_.html

Does anyone know of a microbrick like these, 2.4GHz with brushless ESC, that can run on a 2s LiPo (7.4V) and so use a more powerful brushless motor?


BRUSHLESS MOTORS THAT RUN ON 1S 3.7V LiPos:

And a brushless outrunner, weighing 7 grams, Hobby King says is designed to run on a 1s LiPo. Some of the reviewers say it's not very powerful. with 5900KV, probably takes a very small propeller:

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...er_5900KV.html

2 gram brushless outrunner, for 1s LiPo, Hobby King says to use with 3020 prop, probably not enough for even a lightweight Champ:

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...er_7700kv.html

3.1 gram 7000KV brushless outrunner motor for 1s LiPo, uses a 3020 prop, reviewers say it has pretty good power for its size. Enough for Champ, even with teeny prop?

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...tor_3_1g_.html

2.6 gram brushless 7500KV outrunner for 1s LiPo, people seem to be using it as a tail rotor motor for small helicopters with 2510 prop:

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...er_7500kv.html

Similar to above, 6100KV, Hobby King says you can overload it with a 3020 prop if not careful, use no more than 1s LiPo:

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...er_6100kv.html

2.6 gram outrunner, 1s LiPo, 2A max, 30W (??)

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...er_7900kv.html


That's all the brushless motors I could find on HobbyKing's website, that they said should run on 1s LiPos.

Anyone know of any other brushless ones like that?
Last edited by Little-Acorn; Sep 23, 2011 at 09:31 PM.
Sep 23, 2011, 09:32 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by artysim View Post
Hello, i've been reading this forum for weeks now, and have learned alot just by reading threads. I bought champ 2 months ago and have been addicted ever since. so far i have bought champ, t-28, and i had to have mossy, as well as a dx6i. Wow talk about addicted. now i just have to make sure wife dosen't see the credit card statement! i love reading all the info that you have all learned and have found it entertaining, thoughtfull and most importantly informative. after a stressful day at work there is nothing better than taking the champ for a quick flight in the back 40 and totally zoning out doing touch and goes or close flybuys. all of your info has been invaluable and taught me alot about rc flight (something i have wanted to try for the last 15yrs) the champ being the one that made it all possible. so thanks for the help thus far.
Artysim,
WELCOME TO THE CHAMP THREAD and to the forum. Many of us agree wholeheartedly with you about how valuable it is.

Let's see---Champ, T-28, Mossie, DX6i, SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE READY FOR A BEAST!!

Keep having fun.

Rick in Alaska
Sep 23, 2011, 10:36 PM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Does anyone know of a microbrick like these, 2.4GHz with brushless ESC, that can run on a 2s LiPo (7.4V) and so use a more powerful brushless motor?
The brick from a Beast has two servos (rudder elevator) on it and can run a brushless motor,it is a brushless esc/rx two servo brick.

Then theres the one from the Sbach or Stryker...it does not have any servos on it (it has plugs to use the micro linear servos like the aileron servos on a Beast) but it does have an rx/brushless esc built in and iirc it is a higher amp rating than the Beast one.

Those 5000 kv and 7000 kv motors are to high of a KV.
Around 2000 KV would be better...check out the Sbach and Stryker KV ratings.



Quote:
artysim Hello, i've been reading this forum for weeks now, and have learned alot just by reading threads. I bought champ 2 months ago and have been addicted ever since. so far i have bought champ, t-28, and i had to have mossy, as well as a dx6i. Wow talk about addicted. now i just have to make sure wife dosen't see the credit card statement! i love reading all the info that you have all learned and have found it entertaining, thoughtfull and most importantly informative. after a stressful day at work there is nothing better than taking the champ for a quick flight in the back 40 and totally zoning out doing touch and goes or close flybuys. all of your info has been invaluable and taught me alot about rc flight (something i have wanted to try for the last 15yrs) the champ being the one that made it all possible. so thanks for the help thus far.

Welcome!!!

Sounds like your all set up good!

The Champ is a fine little plane that can provide many relaxing enjoyable flights...course you already know that.

Now go hide that statement...it won't be the last.


Ridgewalker
Sep 23, 2011, 11:08 PM
Elfi Flyer
Doug Sipprell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by artysim View Post
I bought champ 2 months ago and have been addicted ever since. so far i have bought champ, t-28, and i had to have mossy, as well as a dx6i. Wow talk about addicted.
Really! Tell me about it!!

Oh, the horror of it!



RD
Sep 23, 2011, 11:19 PM
Fier Membre des Deplorables
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sipprell View Post
Really! Tell me about it!!

Oh, the horror of it!



RD
Sep 23, 2011, 11:22 PM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sipprell View Post
Really! Tell me about it!!

Oh, the horror of it!



RD
"i'll be back in a little bit,just taking number 1 and 2 out."


Ridgewalker
Sep 24, 2011, 03:45 AM
Big Jim
RTF Thumper's Avatar
Ridge did ya catch the video of me flying the Firebird? She is not a pig anymore and I got some great stick time in the world of rear push power gliders. Will strap the 808 on her and get some solid air video stay tuned.
Sep 24, 2011, 04:09 AM
The figure "9" Specialist
aeronca's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sipprell View Post
Really! Tell me about it!!

Oh, the horror of it!



RD
Ummmm.... where's your shop located, Doug?

Aeronca
Sep 24, 2011, 07:22 AM
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Sep 24, 2011, 07:30 AM
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Sep 24, 2011, 08:33 AM
Occupying RCG
olthump's Avatar
Fishy,

Having owned a MiniSC, I can firmly say buy the bigger one.
Reasons...

Larger, more stable flight dynamics, better payload lifting ability, better slow flight characteristics, more "scale-like" flight.

The mini is a good plane, not dissin' it at all. I just strongly feel that based on your growth in this hobby so far the larger SC will give you much more to grow with as time passes. Video work, floats, who knows?

Just my .02 worth.

I Love My Champ!!!
Sep 24, 2011, 08:35 AM
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Sep 24, 2011, 08:52 AM
Occupying RCG
olthump's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics View Post
Again, just my opinion...YES, pass on it.

The SC that Mac and others enjoy so much is the Horizon Hobby product.
It offers foolproof DSM2 compatibility with all other Spektrum electronics. Overall, HH products seem to have a much stronger rep than Hobbico for quality, and service after the sale.

I feel that this is one of those deals where a lower initial cost may be offset by reliability, parts, and service probs down the road. For ex...you bought a Honda, not a Kia, right? Same reasons, and it has paid off for you in the long run.

Get the good 'un.
Sep 24, 2011, 08:57 AM
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Sep 24, 2011, 09:38 AM
I'm BIG on micros
JSS4's Avatar
Flew my Champ today after a servo repair and a wing repair.
Dihedral is larger on oneside than another and the plane wanted to bank right after TO.
Plane also kept climbing vertically and stalling even at 1/4 throttle.
Also tail flutters with power on.
Any assistance or parts needed?
Thank you
JSS4
Sep 24, 2011, 09:54 AM
Occupying RCG
olthump's Avatar
I would suggest making sure your cg is at 1 1/4" back from the leading edge.
Champs dont like being tail heavy at all, and that's my guess based on your description.

If you have a wing mounting prob as indicated by your uneven dihedral, you may also have an incorrect incidence issue with the wing...meaning it may be raised at the front.

Just my guesses.
Sep 24, 2011, 10:06 AM
The figure "9" Specialist
aeronca's Avatar
Fishy -

I totally agree with olthump, get the 48" Super Cub - you won't be sorry. Again I suggest you buy the parts of the plane, and the components seperately and make it brushless - you will absolutely love it!

Aeronca

P.S. Another tetimonial! https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...0#post19408022
Sep 24, 2011, 10:21 AM
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Sep 24, 2011, 10:34 AM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTF Thumper View Post
Ridge did ya catch the video of me flying the Firebird? She is not a pig anymore and I got some great stick time in the world of rear push power gliders. Will strap the 808 on her and get some solid air video stay tuned.
No i didn't sorry i missed it...so i'll go to check it out right now.

EDIT:

You got it flying!!
It looks like an eagle up there soaring,should be some good video with no prop in the way and the keychain cam on there....i'll be waiting for that one!
Where you going to mount the cam...?


@Fishy...

No reason to rush into buying one.
If the size is making you feel a little unsure,hold off and think about it some more.
Make sure you really want it and your not just getting it because others also have one.


The "LP" on this plane stands for "Learner Plane"...no "gas" in this plane,ha,ha!

Here is a pic of the super cub and champ leaning up against an average size kitchen stove to give you an idea of size.







Ridgewalker
Last edited by ridgewalker; Nov 10, 2011 at 11:55 PM.
Sep 24, 2011, 11:07 AM
RC addict? I'm not addicted...
Nighthawk74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics View Post
one day I will get fully back into a build. but for now I am more into the Kit
Theres yer bird

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HBZ7380

Disable ACT, do a wheel mod & bind it to your dx5e *Bamm* your off. Later you can go brushless, add floats, bomb drops, ailerons...just a bucketload of posibilities
Sep 24, 2011, 11:38 AM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk74 View Post
Theres yer bird

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HBZ7380

Disable ACT, do a wheel mod & bind it to your dx5e *Bamm* your off. Later you can go brushless, add floats, bomb drops, ailerons...just a bucketload of posibilities
Nice fleet you got there!

What i'm curious about is that jet....is it a static model or does it fly?


Ridgewalker
Sep 24, 2011, 11:45 AM
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Sep 24, 2011, 11:57 AM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics View Post
NightHawk74, thank you.
I fav'ed that link, all set. and will make a decision.

no rush, like Ridge says.

But my brain is swelling OUCH!.

I am sitting and thinking butnot puttingtwo, and two together. I should seewhat works out best with what I am going to order Lol.

Dam HH with wanting me to send in my Tx for a lousy micro screw, that sux . I lost a scrw day one . glad I did not lose me screw. I be nutz by now
Just find a screw that will fit from something else...

Better to lose me screw and be nutz than lose me nutz and be screwed.


Ridgewalker
Sep 24, 2011, 11:58 AM
RC addict? I'm not addicted...
Nighthawk74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridgewalker View Post
Nice fleet you got there!

What i'm curious about is that jet....is it a static model or does it fly?


Ridgewalker
Keen eyesight. That is actually my sons lego plane. He plays with it, when i fly indoors. So my answer is when they make micro turbines...who knows
Love the yellow cub, its like a larger Champ

Fishy; Take your time. You don't want to rush that decision.
Man I hate losing those small screws. Lost one on the mSR it was driving me crazy till I "found" one at work.

Tried filming the Night Vapor with an 808-hat-cam. The footage was mostly rubbish due to the cam tilting downwards. I have been messing around with my Simpsons cap and masking tape, but can't seem to keep the cam at eye level.
Sep 24, 2011, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk74 View Post
Keen eyesight. That is actually my sons lego plane. He plays with it, when i fly indoors. So my answer is when they make micro turbines...who knows
Love the yellow cub, its like a larger Champ

Fishy; Take your time. You don't want to rush that decision.
Man I hate losing those small screws. Lost one on the mSR it was driving me crazy till I "found" one at work.

Tried filming the Night Vapor with an 808-hat-cam. The footage was mostly rubbish due to the cam tilting downwards. I have been messing around with my Simpsons cap and masking tape, but can't seem to keep the cam at eye level.
yep deffently hard. with the cams a youtube member sent me a sunglass cam I am gratefull love to seet hat footage.

yep no rushing. looking up prices wit hsome champ parts. all teh same Lol.
Sep 24, 2011, 01:52 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridgewalker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
Looks like my Brushless Champ II is weighing in around 54 grams plus battery (a 180 mAh 2s 7.4V that hasn't arrived from Hobby King yet). HobbyKing says that battery weighs 15 grams (ugh), so it looks like the little fellow is going to weigh in at a grand total of 70 grams, once I figure out the wing attachment and get all the gluing done.

It uses a Turnigy Plush 6A brushless ESC with BEC, a Hobby King 5 gram brushless motor with prop saver, and a six(!) channel FlySky receiver with 4ch 2.4GHz transmitter. Removing the receiver case saved 3 grams, though the bare receiver PC board still weighs 5.5 grams. Plus two 4.3 gram servos that I had sitting around. Installation is fairly straightforward. Right now I've got a 5x3 GWS prop mounted, but that may be too much for this motor, despite what Hobby King says. Might go to a 4.5x3.

My original stock Champ I weighs 44 grams with battery, ready to fly. That includes some extra glue made necessary by the shedding of various wing panels at different times. It is in completely stock form, no changes from "factory original" except the glue.

So my brushless installation hasn't quite doubled the weight of the plane. Yeesh - I've never heard of a plane where that was done and it could still get off the ground. Or, if it did, it became an uncontrollable monster.
It will fly!
My e-flite 180 2s is 12g and my home built 2s hyperions are 11g.

You are going to enjoy the power!!...i do.
Flew the Champ II (brushless, 70 grams) with an old 2s 180mAh battery for the first time today, held together with rubberbands. Yep, it flew... but what a bomb! Good power... but it needs it. Prop tips were nicking the pavement during the takeoff run, might have to go with the 4-1/2" diameter prop instead of the 5". Lifted it off, and it started zooming around like it had a hot date. Dodged the trees and houses in my cul-de-sac for a while, then throttled it back and tried to slow it down with full up-elevator. Finally met a tree it liked, no harm done.

Obviously I have some trimming to do. It's fast little bastard, hopefully I can get it to fly instead of rocket soon.

It's looking more and more like the only way to make a brushless version that flies anything like the original HBZ Champ, will be to put one of those Spektrum microbricks in it with a SMALL 2s LiPo battery.

As Bill Stout once said, "Simplificate and add more lightness!" I did neither with Champ II. Next time with Champ III, I'll (hopefully) do both.
Sep 24, 2011, 04:08 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Flew the Champ II (brushless, 70 grams) with an old 2s 180mAh battery for the first time today, held together with rubberbands. Yep, it flew... but what a bomb! Good power... but it needs it. Prop tips were nicking the pavement during the takeoff run, might have to go with the 4-1/2" diameter prop instead of the 5". Lifted it off, and it started zooming around like it had a hot date. Dodged the trees and houses in my cul-de-sac for a while, then throttled it back and tried to slow it down with full up-elevator. Finally met a tree it liked, no harm done.

Obviously I have some trimming to do. It's fast little bastard, hopefully I can get it to fly instead of rocket soon.

It's looking more and more like the only way to make a brushless version that flies anything like the original HBZ Champ, will be to put one of those Spektrum microbricks in it with a SMALL 2s LiPo battery.

As Bill Stout once said, "Simplificate and add more lightness!" I did neither with Champ II. Next time with Champ III, I'll (hopefully) do both.
One of my favorite sayings. (I have been an A&P licensed mechanic since 1967) I had heard that the saying was on a plaque in Stout's office, then I ran into this that attributes it to Henry Ford, while they were developing the Tri-motor I think.

Re: Simplify and Add Lightness
The origin of "Simplicate and add lightness"... it was said by Henry Ford to William Stout, developer of the first commercially successful all metal airplane. Ford bought Stout's company and retained Stout. The Ford Trimotor was the eventual result.

But I like Saint-Ex's take:

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/fo...ghtness-2.html

Anyway I like both statements, at least when it comes to flying machines!

Rick in Alaska
Sep 24, 2011, 04:26 PM
Big Jim
RTF Thumper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk74 View Post
Keen eyesight. That is actually my sons lego plane. He plays with it, when i fly indoors. So my answer is when they make micro turbines...who knows
Love the yellow cub, its like a larger Champ

Fishy; Take your time. You don't want to rush that decision.
Man I hate losing those small screws. Lost one on the mSR it was driving me crazy till I "found" one at work.

Tried filming the Night Vapor with an 808-hat-cam. The footage was mostly rubbish due to the cam tilting downwards. I have been messing around with my Simpsons cap and masking tape, but can't seem to keep the cam at eye level.
This may help I use a rubber band used a sharpie to color black, and a over hand knot makes the band a snug fit, for night flying I have a pair with no lens looks silly but who cares its dark lol I had all kinds of issues using a hat wind sweat even a itch.
Sep 25, 2011, 12:50 AM
RC addict? I'm not addicted...
Nighthawk74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTF Thumper View Post
This may help I use a rubber band used a sharpie to color black, and a over hand knot makes the band a snug fit, for night flying I have a pair with no lens looks silly but who cares its dark lol I had all kinds of issues using a hat wind sweat even a itch.
Who cares what it looks like, as long as your filming. I like this set up *thumbs up smilie*

I had aligned the 808 in front of the mirror, so it must have been the movement factor that gave it up.

Man that itch would drive me up the wall lol
Sep 25, 2011, 01:02 AM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar

Color changing trees...


The trees colors are starting to change.
There was a couple fires burning in the distance,the wind was just about dead calm and the smoke was hanging low to the ground.

Did the nose dive thing from up high and this time i was a little to low as the ground was coming up.

It came in right at the perfect angle on it's belly..but hard!!
The top fuselage kind of gave a bit and the magnets released,rubber band on the nose held it together but allowed it to twist a bit,absorbing the impact and causing zero damage!...just the cam popped off.

I'll be flying at this spot and making scenic videos as the colors change...we're going to see the trees go from green with little color showing now too seeing nothing but red,yellow,orange,brown and many shades everywhere between!
And finally the leaves will all be gone and it will be stick-ville waiting to be covered with snow.

Here is the first video of what will be a multi-video series....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhpJbqW3ek8



Ridgewalker
Sep 25, 2011, 07:01 AM
TREE TOP PILOT
crashdumby's Avatar

cool


@ Ridge nice vid beutiful country shurely not the dark side of the moon......Crash
Sep 25, 2011, 07:42 AM
Registered User

One man's trash another man's treasure


Not one to post but I have to share a quick little story. New to RC planes and have the Champ and T28 which I love to fly both. So two weeks ago I am golfing and go to deposit my adult beverage bottle ino the trash can at hole 13. What do I see in the trash can? A Champ with damage limited to a broken wing. I was golfing with my brother-in-law and two fellows I did not know. Without hesitation I became a trash picker. I figured at least I have a parts plane, but got home and found all electronics working. Went to the local hs and bought a new wing. Bingo, now have two Champs for the price of one. Pretty lucky for a consistantly unlucky guy. Cheers.
Sep 25, 2011, 08:11 AM
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTOWN View Post
Not one to post but I have to share a quick little story. New to RC planes and have the Champ and T28 which I love to fly both. So two weeks ago I am golfing and go to deposit my adult beverage bottle ino the trash can at hole 13. What do I see in the trash can? A Champ with damage limited to a broken wing. I was golfing with my brother-in-law and two fellows I did not know. Without hesitation I became a trash picker. I figured at least I have a parts plane, but got home and found all electronics working. Went to the local hs and bought a new wing. Bingo, now have two Champs for the price of one. Pretty lucky for a consistantly unlucky guy. Cheers.
OMG! I told you that Golfer.......

Some lost, is somesone's treasures.....

yep maybe you post a threw out and fixed poster.


great story.
Sep 25, 2011, 08:12 AM
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridgewalker View Post
The trees colors are starting to change.
There was a couple fires burning in the distance,the wind was just about dead calm and the smoke was hanging low to the ground.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhpJbqW3ek8



Ridgewalker
Ridge you are defently going to the Dark side of the moon. but cross trained correctly
excellent vid skills and Champ flying.

Was up. up high, and Loved the down to earth dive.
Sep 25, 2011, 09:17 AM
I make metal smaller.
Endlesslag's Avatar
R.I.P Champ #1

It's landing gear still flies with champ #2
Sep 25, 2011, 10:05 AM
Registered User
Notsogood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTOWN View Post
Not one to post but I have to share a quick little story. New to RC planes and have the Champ and T28 which I love to fly both. So two weeks ago I am golfing and go to deposit my adult beverage bottle ino the trash can at hole 13. What do I see in the trash can? A Champ with damage limited to a broken wing. I was golfing with my brother-in-law and two fellows I did not know. Without hesitation I became a trash picker. I figured at least I have a parts plane, but got home and found all electronics working. Went to the local hs and bought a new wing. Bingo, now have two Champs for the price of one. Pretty lucky for a consistantly unlucky guy. Cheers.
I wish I got that lucky when I golf.
Sep 25, 2011, 10:17 AM
Bay Area Prop Buster
Bluhammer's Avatar
This was a great page, you guys are too much!
Love the Champ trophy on the wall, a fitting end to a faithful friend.

The Champ in the trash just might be one of Fishy's long lost Champsters! What a nice find.

Blu
Sep 25, 2011, 10:26 AM
Suspended Account
that is a nice trophy, LMAO!

yep it sure is I bet it did not have my name on it.
Sep 25, 2011, 12:30 PM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics View Post
Ridge you are defently going to the Dark side of the moon. but cross trained correctly
excellent vid skills and Champ flying.

Was up. up high, and Loved the down to earth dive.
Thanks Fishy!
Trying to improve my editing skills.
Was a nice day to fly.

Ridgewalker
Sep 25, 2011, 12:59 PM
I make metal smaller.
Endlesslag's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluhammer View Post
This was a great page, you guys are too much!
Love the Champ trophy on the wall, a fitting end to a faithful friend.

The Champ in the trash just might be one of Fishy's long lost Champsters! What a nice find.

Blu
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics View Post
that is a nice trophy, LMAO!

yep it sure is I bet it did not have my name on it.

Thanks I got the idea from my local club field, where there's a plane sticking out of a shed on the way in. I think I'm going to start doing that wit any planes I crash beyond repair...saving the tail and mounting it
Sep 25, 2011, 01:14 PM
RC addict? I'm not addicted...
Nighthawk74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluhammer View Post
This was a great page, you guys are too much!
Love the Champ trophy on the wall, a fitting end to a faithful friend.

The Champ in the trash just might be one of Fishy's long lost Champsters! What a nice find.

Blu
+1 Champaholics have all the fun

Nice Pink Floyd flight Ridge. Colors are starting to show
Sep 25, 2011, 01:26 PM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk74 View Post
+1 Champaholics have all the fun

Nice Pink Floyd flight Ridge. Colors are starting to show
Thank you Nighthawk74!

They are just starting to pop out,i will be waiting for them to really change before making another video...stay tuned!

Quote:
crashdumby

cool
@ Ridge nice vid beutiful country shurely not the dark side of the moon......Crash
Ha,ha!
Thanks crash,glad you enjoyed it.


Ridgewalker
Sep 25, 2011, 07:37 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Flew the Champ II (brushless, 70 grams) with an old 2s 180mAh battery for the first time today, held together with rubberbands. Yep, it flew... but what a bomb! Good power... but it needs it. Prop tips were nicking the pavement during the takeoff run, might have to go with the 4-1/2" diameter prop instead of the 5". Lifted it off, and it started zooming around like it had a hot date. Dodged the trees and houses in my cul-de-sac for a while, then throttled it back and tried to slow it down with full up-elevator. Finally met a tree it liked, no harm done.

Obviously I have some trimming to do. It's fast little bastard, hopefully I can get it to fly instead of rocket soon.

It's looking more and more like the only way to make a brushless version that flies anything like the original HBZ Champ, will be to put one of those Spektrum microbricks in it with a SMALL 2s LiPo battery.

As Bill Stout once said, "Simplificate and add more lightness!" I did neither with Champ II. Next time with Champ III, I'll (hopefully) do both.
Almost fell over backward when I found that a local Hobby Shop had a Spektrum AR6400LBL in stock, and for $5 off yet.

Now Champ II might get morphed into Champ III, a lot sooner than I thought!

Now if I can just get those pushrods to fit the new microbrick.....
Sep 25, 2011, 10:39 PM
BGR
BGR
Foam Junkie
Not to change the drift of the discussion too much but....I just gotta say this.

Flew the Champ today using my new DX6i....wow what a difference, much smoother control and that little speck in the sky way way way up there is my Champ. I also setup 20% up elevator on the flap switch for hand launching and power climbs. I have never had a computerized radio (come from the old days) but this opens up so many possibilities.
Sep 25, 2011, 11:12 PM
Bay Area Prop Buster
Bluhammer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGR View Post
Not to change the drift of the discussion too much but....I just gotta say this.

Flew the Champ today using my new DX6i....wow what a difference, much smoother control and that little speck in the sky way way way up there is my Champ. I also setup 20% up elevator on the flap switch for hand launching and power climbs. I have never had a computerized radio (come from the old days) but this opens up so many possibilities.
Now you're cooking with gas! Enjoy.
Blu
Sep 25, 2011, 11:52 PM
Diverted by planks
tracknoob's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGR View Post
Not to change the drift of the discussion too much but....I just gotta say this.

Flew the Champ today using my new DX6i....wow what a difference, much smoother control and that little speck in the sky way way way up there is my Champ. I also setup 20% up elevator on the flap switch for hand launching and power climbs. I have never had a computerized radio (come from the old days) but this opens up so many possibilities.
Isn't it a nice change to go to the DX6 from all those 'toy' radios that come in the various RTF packages?

And getting multiple models on one radio... mixes, curves, lots of switches to program... it's a whole new game!

I have my own trio of Champ, T-28, and Beast all lined up to go to the park tomorrow, weather willing.

Batteries charged, preflights and trims checked... my poor little Champy needed a lot of tape to fix some bent-over and creased control surfaces... I don't think it's my awesome acrobatic flying, I just think it's letting it get caught in these nasty gusts and updrafts we've had... but a little tape here and there, and some tiny carbon rod CA'ed across the elevator and I think we are good to go.

I also had an odd thing happening on the T-28: every time I would turn it on, first time, the elevator would noticeably stick, then release with a audible pop, and then work fine. I flew it like that since operating the elevator again and again could not make it recur, until the next day, and it's done it first flight of the day each time. I finally split the fuse to see what's binding, and I should have stopped taking it apart as soon as I got to those large decals in the back. One look at them and it seemed clear what was happening -- they have not been cut away enough, and with the angle of the rod, it lays against the inside (sticky part) of the decal. it isn't enough adherence in flight or on subsequent binds to matter, but when it sits for hours, like overnight, it adheres well enough to make a snapping sound when the stuck elevator breaks loose!

But once inside, I poked around anyway, and carefully trimmed all overhanging decals, and operated everything to be sure it was smooth. I'll bet tomorrow, she starts up smooth as silk now that all interference is cleared away.

These micros are so cool, but I'm learning that given their teeny size and weight, even things which actually are or at least seem negligible on larger models, can be a huge deal.
Sep 26, 2011, 12:34 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Almost fell over backward when I found that a local Hobby Shop had a Spektrum AR6400LBL in stock, and for $5 off yet.

Now Champ II might get morphed into Champ III, a lot sooner than I thought!

Now if I can just get those pushrods to fit the new microbrick.....
Yanked the separate 4.3 gram servos, rx, and ESC out of Champ II, and put in the AR6400LBL. Was able to move the brick back and forth until the pushrods fit. After changing all the connectors, I hooked everything up and bound it to my old DX5e. To my astonishment, the servo on the elevator-pushrod side, actually responded to elevator stick displacement, and in the correct direction even. Ditto for the rudder. Even the 5-gram brushless motor ran in the correct direction! I hope I didn't just use up ALL the luck on that plane!

Well, one thing: The DX5e normally has elevator and ailerons on the right stick, and rudder and throttle on the left (it's Mode 2). And that's true for this installation, too... but for such 3-channel planes I normally hook the rudder servo to the aileron slot on the receiver so that I have rudder control and elevator on the right stick (as the factory Champ has).

But on a microbrick, you can't tell it to make that rudder servo respond to aileron commands instead! And the DX5e transmitter won't swap the rudder and aileron channels, either. Hey, my $35 Flysky 2.4GHz 6-channel will do that! But this microbrick is the only one I've found that will run on 7.4V, and it's DSM2, so the DX5e is the only transmitter I have that will work with it.

Well, I might wind up flying it with rudder on the left stick for a while... and eventually put ailerons on it, so I can fly it like a real plane.

Best news is, the plane now weighs 59 grams instead of the 70 it was weighing with separate servos and ESC. That's with the same 180mAh 2s Zippy 15C LiPo.

NOW we're talking!

And the AR6400LBL fits in there like it was made for the Champ. So now Champ II has morphed into Champ III.

First flight soon.....!!
Sep 26, 2011, 04:11 AM
Suspended Account
try theservo horn on the back they may tend to mslip in the hole TRACK....
Sep 26, 2011, 09:37 AM
Diverted by planks
tracknoob's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics View Post
try theservo horn on the back they may tend to mslip in the hole TRACK....
Thanks for the tip -- started it up this morning in the house, and it looks good to go, without any sticking (first time ever it has NOT done it -- even right out of original box, it 'popped', but I could not make it do it again right away, it took sitting overnight to make it stick)!

Unfortunately, that line of three UM aircraft are on the counter staring woefully at me, asking to go out and play, but the weather is totally socked in today. Here in Florida we only get gloomy all day type rain maybe a handful of times per year -- usually a shower or thunderstorm lows through and we are good to go.

Of course, the day I'm primed to hit the park for a major multi-craft session is the day we look like there may be no flying at all!
Last edited by tracknoob; Sep 26, 2011 at 09:42 AM.
Sep 26, 2011, 12:42 PM
Registered User
telos81's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGR View Post
Not to change the drift of the discussion too much but....I just gotta say this.

Flew the Champ today using my new DX6i....wow what a difference, much smoother control and that little speck in the sky way way way up there is my Champ. I also setup 20% up elevator on the flap switch for hand launching and power climbs. I have never had a computerized radio (come from the old days) but this opens up so many possibilities.
yeah it's awesome. i finally got a DX7 this year (after years and years of using the plastic RTF TXs) the difference is phenomenal.
Sep 26, 2011, 02:44 PM
Elfi Flyer
Doug Sipprell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tracknoob View Post
Unfortunately, that line of three UM aircraft are on the counter staring woefully at me, asking to go out and play,
You need to let them know who's Boss!!



RD
Sep 26, 2011, 03:29 PM
Gone Huckin'
turnerm's Avatar
I started out with the Champ back in December but somewhere along the line I tried to rebuild one with new foam parts and failed miserably (no clue what happened but it just flew like a turd after I got done with it). Anyway - my 6 year old son is ready to start learning so I won a Champ on Ebay for $45 that just needed a new prop shaft (turns out it also needed a new brick so I just moved the old one over) and now I'm up and running.

He's still getting in some stick time in Phoenix before I turn him over to the Champ but he's learning very quickly. I think he'll be flying the Champ by this weekend.

But in the meantime I'm having a BLAST with this little fella. I forgot how sweet this little plane is. I've been having a blast flying it low and slow in front of my house. I've carved a little obstacle course type path between the trees and my house and the neighbors' houses. I've spent so much time with my Beast, Sbach and 3DHS Edge that I forgot how smooth this little guy can be!! I'm just amazed at how rock solid the plane is at such slow speeds!!

I'm flying it with some Hyperion 180's from RCBabbel here on the forums. I think I have about 8 of them so I never run out of juice since I can charge 6 of them in parallel in about 13 minutes (at 5c).

Anyway - just thought I'd check in here since I've started flying this plane again. Any new thoughts/tips/mods for the plane that are worth looking into or is it best to just keep her stock and have fun with her the way she is?
Sep 26, 2011, 05:57 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
But on a microbrick, you can't tell it to make that rudder servo respond to aileron commands instead! And the DX5e transmitter won't swap the rudder and aileron channels, either. Hey, my $35 Flysky 2.4GHz 6-channel will do that! But this microbrick is the only one I've found that will run on 7.4V, and it's DSM2, so the DX5e is the only transmitter I have that will work with it.

Well, I might wind up flying it with rudder on the left stick for a while... and eventually put ailerons on it, so I can fly it like a real plane.
Well, silly me. The cheapo transmitter that comes with the basic Champ, is DSM2 also. I'll try binding this plane to the transmitter for Champ I and see if rudder and elevator both wind up on the right stick.

Not enough sleep.......
Sep 26, 2011, 06:27 PM
Occupying RCG
olthump's Avatar
Acorn,

About a year ago I used my 4 ch. brick from my demolished P51 in a 3 ch. LiddleRod build. I too fly with only a DX5e, no mixing. I had to mount the seperate aileron servo, connected to the rudder, to get conventional 3ch. rudder and elevator on the right stick. No way I know of to do it otherwise, but hope springs eternal. Good Luck, let us know.
Sep 26, 2011, 06:38 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by olthump
Acorn,

About a year ago I used my 4 ch. brick from my demolished P51 in a 3 ch. LiddleRod build. I too fly with only a DX5e, no mixing. I had to mount the seperate aileron servo, connected to the rudder, to get conventional 3ch. rudder and elevator on the right stick. No way I know of to do it otherwise, but hope springs eternal. Good Luck, let us know.
Before I put this brick in, I had two separate 4.3g servos and a standard, but small, FlySky 6ch 2.4GHz receiver and a Turnigy Plush 6A ESC. I could plug the rudder servo in wherever I wanted. Ironically, that FlySky transmitter could also assign any stick axis to any channel, so that radio setup had TWO possible solutions to the problem.

Everything was hunkydory... except the plane weighed in at just a hair over 70 grams, and flew like a madman.

With this brick in place, it now weighs 59 grams... which was the whole reason for putting the brick in. It just came with this little left-stick quirk.

Hopefully I can bind it to the original Champ transmitter, rickety though it is, and find both controls on the right stick. I hope.

As I mentioned earlier, I might put a switch on the DX5e transmitter and swap the center wire of each of the rudder and aileron pots inside, if they are accessible.
Last edited by Little-Acorn; Sep 27, 2011 at 11:55 AM.
Sep 26, 2011, 06:52 PM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar
Do you have a spare aileron servo,the linear micro one.
If you do then you could remove the rudder servo from the brick entirely and with that other servo..the aileron one...you could hot glue or double side thick tape it right where the rudder servo was.

Then your rudder can be controled with the right stick like you want.

Hot glue can be removed if you decide you want to use the rudder servo by wetting the hot glue with 90% rubbing alcohol ,right where the glue meets the brick.
Let it set a min or two and see if it loosened up,if not drip some more rubbing alcohol on the glue.
The rubbing alcohol has never ruined any of my bricks...and i have got them pretty soaked with the 90% rubbing alcohol,just be sure all the alcohol is evaporated and dry before putting power to the brick.

It would work,longs you had that other micro servo to plug into the aileron channel.


Ridgewalker
Sep 27, 2011, 09:48 AM
Registered User
minchomexa's Avatar

second plane?


i've been looking and looking (im sure everyone knows the feeling!) and the warbirds are so nice....but being only a "champer" with a few months experience, im trying to decide about the next plane.

anybody has an opinion on this plane?
Sep 27, 2011, 10:09 AM
Gone Huckin'
turnerm's Avatar
I personally feel that the HZ Super Cub is a great next plane from the Champ. From there you can go to a 4ch warbird like the T28D.

I went that route and it worked great for me.

Another option is to go from the Champ to the UM T28 and then on up to the bigger T28 or the Apprentice or something like that.

Just my $0.02.
Sep 27, 2011, 10:15 AM
Suspended Account
Spend the extra few dollars, like I did and decide if the Hobbyzone spuer Cub is for you. it's sad that you have to modify the Airlons, , as the one you point have it.

55 inch wing to 47.7 wing

I feel I made my right choice with fello members helping out.
Sep 27, 2011, 10:23 AM
Gone Huckin'
turnerm's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics
Spend the extra few dollars, like I did and decide if the Hobbyzone spuer Cub is for you. it's sad that you have to modify the Airlons, , as the one you point have it.

55 inch wing to 47.7 wing

I feel I made my right choice with fello members helping out.
What did you decide to go with?
Sep 27, 2011, 10:28 AM
Registered User
minchomexa's Avatar
any input on the AIRFIELD brand?
thanks for the advice. i feel i would like to spend more time flying and less time modifying, and if i could get a nice RTF kit with 4-ch and maybe a nice DX6 radio for under $200....i even looked at the HZ P-51
but $220 for only 3-ch?? and just a DX4 radio?? not too much bang for my buck there in my opinion...
i saw the HZ has no ailerons...the airfield does. i bet its cheaply made with an "el cheapo" radio...
Sep 27, 2011, 11:09 AM
Suspended Account
For I got the HH Super cub. I already got a DX5e.

I purchase a Spuer cub LP DSM2 Less radio, for 170. Be super careful how you order. I saved my sight, and I just re read it and It said FM frequency, 179.99 Price just increased, WOW! from this weekend . I saved now 10.00 and I as well got a 20.00 spare battery.RESEARCH. Your champ remote wil lwork but we push for a DX5e period.
Sep 27, 2011, 11:28 AM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by minchomexa
any input on the AIRFIELD brand?
thanks for the advice. i feel i would like to spend more time flying and less time modifying, and if i could get a nice RTF kit with 4-ch and maybe a nice DX6 radio for under $200....i even looked at the HZ P-51
but $220 for only 3-ch?? and just a DX4 radio?? not too much bang for my buck there in my opinion...
i saw the HZ has no ailerons...the airfield does. i bet its cheaply made with an "el cheapo" radio...
The Mustang is a 4 channel plane.

It comes with aileron and elevator servo installed and if you choose you can add a servo on the rudder.
It comes with all the hardware to make adding a rudder servo simple.

The plane flys good with just ailerons although it is quite a bit faster than the Champ.lol

If you are after 4 ch planes,the UM-t28 is a good trainer plane for 4 ch.


Ridgewalker
Sep 27, 2011, 11:30 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by minchomexa
but $220 for only 3-ch?? and just a DX4 radio?? not too much bang for my buck there in my opinion...
i saw the HZ has no ailerons...the airfield does. i bet its cheaply made with an "el cheapo" radio...
I like the FlySky 2.4GHz radios, both 4-channel and 6-channel. I've flown them out to extreme ranges, swapped channels in them, reprogrammed them, you name it, NEVER had a problem.

4-channel, $27.95: http://www.toysonics.com/flysky-fs-c...-air-heli.html

6-channel, $32.00: http://www.hobbypartz.com/79p-ct6b-r6b-radiosystem.html

Both vendors are in the Los Angeles area, not in China.

Only reason I'm not using one of these now in Champ III is because the microbrick is lighter than even the FlySky's teensy receiver plus two separates servos and a Turnigy 6A Plush ESC... and the microbrick is only available in DSM2, so I have to use a Spektrum transmitter.

Why the Spektrums are selling for a hundred or two (or three), is baffling to me.
Sep 27, 2011, 11:43 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
Yanked the separate 4.3 gram servos, rx, and ESC out of Champ II, and put in the AR6400LBL. Was able to move the brick back and forth until the pushrods fit. After changing all the connectors, I hooked everything up and bound it to my old DX5e. To my astonishment, the servo on the elevator-pushrod side, actually responded to elevator stick displacement, and in the correct direction even. Ditto for the rudder. Even the 5-gram brushless motor ran in the correct direction! I hope I didn't just use up ALL the luck on that plane!

Well, one thing: The DX5e normally has elevator and ailerons on the right stick, and rudder and throttle on the left (it's Mode 2). And that's true for this installation, too... but for such 3-channel planes I normally hook the rudder servo to the aileron slot on the receiver so that I have rudder control and elevator on the right stick (as the factory Champ has).

But on a microbrick, you can't tell it to make that rudder servo respond to aileron commands instead! And the DX5e transmitter won't swap the rudder and aileron channels, either. Hey, my $35 Flysky 2.4GHz 6-channel will do that! But this microbrick is the only one I've found that will run on 7.4V, and it's DSM2, so the DX5e is the only transmitter I have that will work with it.

Well, I might wind up flying it with rudder on the left stick for a while... and eventually put ailerons on it, so I can fly it like a real plane.

Best news is, the plane now weighs 59 grams instead of the 70 it was weighing with separate servos and ESC. That's with the same 180mAh 2s Zippy 15C LiPo.

NOW we're talking!

And the AR6400LBL fits in there like it was made for the Champ. So now Champ II has morphed into Champ III.

First flight soon.....!!
Champ III flies BEAUTIFULLY. Very Champ-like, it's docile and acts like a beginner plane. Still noses up somewhat when power on, meaning maybe I didn't crank in enough downthrust. Might be slightly faster than the original factory Champ, hard to tell since I was in a park this time instead of in my cul-de-sac at home. But a pretty mellow plane. Going from 70 grams to 59 definitely had good results.

Another little quirk about the AR6400LBL microbrick: It has little slots in the PC board below each of the big (relatively) servo gears for clearance, so the linear servos can be mounted flat to the board. When you stick it down to the mount in the Champ with that red-backed double-side gel tape, the gel bulges up thru the slot and touches the servo gear. The brick makes all kinds of strange sounds when that happens, and the servos don't move. Good news is, no smoke. Leaving a gap in the gel tape so the slot is clear, solves the problem.

Haven't tried any full-power runs yet. Launched it at about 2/3 power, and it climbed out well, about like the original factory Champ at full power. Again quite docile, the 5-gram HobbyKing brushless motor (2000KV) seems to like that 4.5x3 GWS prop. Flying with rudder on the left stick was a little odd, but with this mellow a plane I had time to think and try "the other stick" when I goofed. And it did a nice little loop when I asked it to. Sort of like flying a small, orange EasyStar.

Might still try to bind it to the original factory Champ transmitter, and see if rudder migrates back to the right stick. But I can't help wondering if I'd throw away all I've gained so far by putting an aileron servo on it. Still got those 4.3g servos sitting around, and I'd only need one...... and a 120mAh 20C 2s battery weighs some 5 grams less than the 180mAh 15C 2s I'm flying now...... >:-D

Something about a full-house plane that has mellow character, isn't covered in oil, and fits in a shoebox is just about irresistible!
Last edited by Little-Acorn; Sep 27, 2011 at 01:00 PM.
Sep 27, 2011, 12:03 PM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar
Adding down thrust will only increase how it climbs under power.
On my brushless Champ i have the prop shaft,well it's really the motor shaft but you know what i mean...it is level no down thrust at all.
And i still have 50% down mixed in with the throttle.
So as i increase throttle the elevator moves down.
It really has helped and now i can get high speed level passes with out having to give down elevator manually.

also have barely any right thrust,you can't even really notice it,looks straight and the plane flys very well!

Can you get any video of your brushless Champ?


Ridgewalker
Sep 27, 2011, 01:01 PM
Registered User
minchomexa's Avatar
Quote:
It comes with aileron and elevator servo installed and if you choose you can add a servo on the rudder.
It comes with all the hardware to make adding a rudder servo simple.
makes me wonder "why not add it since its easy to install??" bank and yank is fun, but i still like to use the rudder.

Quote:
I like the FlySky 2.4GHz radios, both 4-channel and 6-channel. I've flown them out to extreme ranges, swapped channels in them, reprogrammed them, you name it, NEVER had a problem.
interesting, im sure DSM2 is not compatible with others. can you use Horizon products with FlySky radios? are the plugs compatible? maybe it would be a good idea to get a BNF, swap the Rx, and fly?
Sep 27, 2011, 01:44 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by minchomexa
interesting, im sure DSM2 is not compatible with others.
Well, DSM2 is not compatible with the FlySky transmitters, I'm sure. (Though maybe I should try binding a Flysky transmitter to Champ III before shooting my mouth off here?)

Quote:
can you use Horizon products with FlySky radios? are the plugs compatible? maybe it would be a good idea to get a BNF, swap the Rx, and fly?
Which Horizon products? Do you mean Horizon Hobby? I notice they have quite a few BNF planes. A few are ultra-micros, most are normal-size.

The normal-size ones (which is most of Horizon Hobby's planes) seem to use receivers such as the AR600. You should be able to swap in a FlySky receiver easily - the servos and ESC plugs should be the "standard" Futaba type, which will fit. I haven't actually tried it on those planes, of course, but it "should" work.

The ultra-micros seem to use receivers such as the AR6400NBL, which has those really teensy plugs, and has a built-in brushless ESC. "Standard" servo plugs would not fit. So if you tried to put a FlySky receiver in one of those, no, the servos would not plug in. You'd need adapters, which are easy but they are more weight. And you'd need a separate ESC, which is even more weight. I basically tried that a few days ago with Champ II, and wound up with something that had to fly fast to stay in the air, not a beginner plane like Champ was designed to be.

FlySky receivers have the standard Futaba-type connectors for servo and ESC. Nearly every servo made, fits them, except for some of the really teensy ones that plug into microbricks like the AR6400LBL and the HobbyKing microbricks.
Last edited by Little-Acorn; Sep 27, 2011 at 02:25 PM.
Sep 27, 2011, 02:00 PM
Registered User
minchomexa's Avatar
thanks for the info!!

i think im ready for something bigger and with more power, as the LHS told me when i was asking about the UM T-28 and the UM P-51. (i really doubt he was just trying to make an upsale since i have the mustang already on the counter ready to check out) i've read they have somewhat similar power plants as the champ, so it may be fun for a month or two and then i would be wanting something more!! (dont we all??)

maybe a PNP would be my option then...maybe this plus this?
Sep 27, 2011, 02:35 PM
The lunatic is on the grass
ridgewalker's Avatar
The UM T-28 and UM Mustang use the same motor,only difference is the length of the wire that plugs into the brick.
But the Champ uses a different less powerful motor.
Some people add a mustang or T-28 motor in their Champs along with a gws 5043 prop to increase the speed and climbing ability of the Champ.
Of course the stock battery is on the weak side with that set up so an upgrade in batteries compliments the upgraded motor and prop nicely!

Quote:
makes me wonder "why not add it since its easy to install??" bank and yank is fun, but i still like to use the rudder.
That is just what i did,right from the start.
No sense in flying a 4 ch if your only using ailerons and elevator.


Ridgewalker
Sep 27, 2011, 03:11 PM
An Ordinary User
Quote:
Originally Posted by minchomexa
any input on the AIRFIELD brand?
thanks for the advice. i feel i would like to spend more time flying and less time modifying, and if i could get a nice RTF kit with 4-ch and maybe a nice DX6 radio for under $200....i even looked at the HZ P-51
but $220 for only 3-ch?? and just a DX4 radio?? not too much bang for my buck there in my opinion...
i saw the HZ has no ailerons...the airfield does. i bet its cheaply made with an "el cheapo" radio...

I assure you the Parkzone P-51 (not HZ) has ailerons. The Dx4 isn't the best transmitter out there but it's better than some of the other RTF transmitters. Some Parkzone RTFs come with a Dx5e but I have never seen a Dx6i in a RTF bundle. When they say 3 channel it's becuase only 3 channels are being used. The rudder is initially fixed on this model but it is servo ready and easy to convert to a working rudder.

The Horizon/TowerHobbies electronics are what kill the price. The Airfield models are nice and the HongKong electronics are in my price range. But they come with a catch.

The F4F Wildcat is a great deal if you want to buy your own electronics. But I don't think it's a good step to take from a Champ. Maybe get one now and save it for later.

The UM T-28 or a ParkZone T-28 would be a good next step. I don't recommend the Airfield or Dynam because all it will take is a few crashes and it's done. The catch I mentioned above is that spare parts are very hard to find.

Even though the UM T-28 and UM P-51 use the same motor, prop, and brick they have very different flight characteristics that may make one easier to control than the other.
I'd suggest the UM T-28 if you really want a warbird. I'd go with a HZ SuperCub DSM otherwise.

SB
Sep 27, 2011, 03:13 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by minchomexa
thanks for the info!!

i think im ready for something bigger and with more power, as the LHS told me when i was asking about the UM T-28 and the UM P-51. (i really doubt he was just trying to make an upsale since i have the mustang already on the counter ready to check out) i've read they have somewhat similar power plants as the champ, so it may be fun for a month or two and then i would be wanting something more!! (dont we all??)

maybe a PNP would be my option then...maybe this plus this?
That should work! (Fingers crossed )

Interesting to note: Grumman made the F4F from a previous design (or so I heard) - taking this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F3F and putting a single wing on it.

It could be a lot of fun to go the other way: Start with the F4F R/C model and finding two round-tipped wings for it.

The F3F was sometimes called the hottest, most maneuverable fighter ever flown by the U.S. armed forces. It was a lot slower than the monoplanes, of course, but must have been a real blast to fly when someone wasn't actually shooting at you.
Sep 27, 2011, 03:18 PM
Occupying RCG
olthump's Avatar
like these two...Cousns, maybe...not all that close when ya look close.
Sep 27, 2011, 03:31 PM
Registered User
minchomexa's Avatar
thanks for the input. when i said "no ailerons" i was talking about the HZ Super Cub RTF kit.

maybe the UM T-28 and just use the Tx from the champ? and save some $$? HZ SuperCub seems nice, but i really would like ailerons if im paying that price....

thanks again!
Sep 27, 2011, 03:34 PM
Occupying RCG
olthump's Avatar
I can say from painful experience that the umP51 is not a good choice for a first aileron bird, especially w/o a tx with expo.
Sep 27, 2011, 03:51 PM
An Ordinary User
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics
Spend the extra few dollars, like I did and decide if the Hobbyzone spuer Cub is for you. it's sad that you have to modify the Airlons, , as the one you point have it.

55 inch wing to 47.7 wing

I feel I made my right choice with fello members helping out.
You made the right choice Fishy.

That "Sky Trainer" is a nice plane but it's no trainer (unless you are using a buddy box). It's a good 4th or 5th plane haha.

Part of training is crashing so a good trainer (like the HZ SuperCub or HZ Champ) has plenty of (cheap) spare parts available because a person who is training is most likely going to crash. When you do crash, you generally want to repair and try again.

The Airfield/FMS/CMP/Dynam/Durafly/Sapac/Ele/JPower/etc airframes are almost a one crash item. Meaning after one crash, you buy another one. You can buy the airframe for cheap, but good luck finding individual parts. And when you do find the part you need, it may take from 3 weeks to 3 months to get it.

The availability of replacement parts is crucial when learning. A total loss is always hard to swallow.

SB
Sep 27, 2011, 04:02 PM
Registered User
minchomexa's Avatar
wow! just checked nitroplanes web site and most all spare parts are marked "out of stock"!!

maybe a PNP setup (thanks little-Acorn!)

thank you for all the info!
Sep 27, 2011, 04:09 PM
An Ordinary User
Quote:
Originally Posted by minchomexa
maybe the UM T-28 and just use the Tx from the champ? and save some $$? HZ SuperCub seems nice, but i really would like ailerons if im paying that price....
That would work. At some point you will want a better transmitter so you should start watching the For Sale forums. As people go from a Dx5e to Dx6i or Dx6i to Dx8 they sell the old Tx. It's easier to find a good deal when you don't need it.

Also, as you become a better pilot try to become a better mechanic. Try to repair any damage yourself first, then buy a replacement part if your repair is no good. After all, if its already broken a failed repair is no loss.

SB
Sep 27, 2011, 04:36 PM
Suspended Account
GooberSB.

Thank you.

I chosen my plane carefully, with the Guidence of the people at the Forum.

I had the Super cub , Slow stick, on my first plane list and was turned on to the Champ by members of the site as well other places. I did take my time from last year till Feb to order my Plane.

So yes a slow stick is on my list

Hope others will research before purchasing. reconcider. if you want a RTF or ARF the decision is yours, just make the right choice.

Place in business, support, and parts being easily obtained. at a reasonable fee.
Sep 27, 2011, 04:47 PM
An Ordinary User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
I like the FlySky 2.4GHz radios, both 4-channel and 6-channel. I've flown them out to extreme ranges, swapped channels in them, reprogrammed them, you name it, NEVER had a problem.
...

Why the Spektrums are selling for a hundred or two (or three), is baffling to me.
I watched the video you posted and there were a few things that got my attention.

Not the need to connect it to a computer to program it
Not the single model memory

But the part where he says it doesn't come with a charger because the polarity is wrong and if you plug in a charger it will fry the transmitter. That may be the part that makes a Spektrum/JR/Futaba cost more hahaha

The other thing is that the receivers cost $9. It baffles me that the cheap Chinese made receivers like the FlySky and HobbyKing's own brand cost more than the Chinese made Spektrum "compatible" receivers. I've bought many DSM2 receivers from Target Hobby at around $4-5 each and several more from HobbyKing for around $7 each. If TargetHobby starts selling clones of the HobbyKing receivers then things might even out

But I love being able to walk out to my workshop with my Dx6i, picking out any plane I want to fly, selecting it on the LCD screen with the little roller, and then hand launching it from the workshop steps. Then I put it back inside and choose another one.

So it doesn't seem like I'm a FlySky basher, I completely agree that the Spektrum prices are a bit much. That's why I like my "compatibles" so much.

SB
Sep 27, 2011, 05:47 PM
Bay Area Prop Buster
Bluhammer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by minchomexa
wow! just checked nitroplanes web site and most all spare parts are marked "out of stock"!!

maybe a PNP setup (thanks little-Acorn!)

thank you for all the info!
That's why I've stayed away from their stuff even though the planes look really good and the prices are low.

Blu
Sep 27, 2011, 05:49 PM
Registered User
I had a similar question. Anyone tried the airfield T-28?? cause I have heard great reviews about it and the price is awesome too. I have just about gotten the hang of my PZ polecat(which btw is really fun!). any suggestions?
Sep 27, 2011, 06:50 PM
I am THE Registered User

Aww yeah


Guess what??? 900 PAGES OF PURE CHAMP!!!!
Sep 27, 2011, 08:08 PM
An Ordinary User
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivcal
I had a similar question. Anyone tried the airfield T-28?? cause I have heard great reviews about it and the price is awesome too. I have just about gotten the hang of my PZ polecat(which btw is really fun!). any suggestions?
I have the 800mm T-28. I like it a lot, but it's my 15th or so plane. Me and my son, who turned 7 recently, really got into rc quickly. He did the flying and I did the repairing. We always had one in the shop and two or more to fly. The old saying that the cream rises to the top is true. As the ones we didn't like much fell away, the great ones stayed in the rotation.

The Champ has been replaced several times due to fly aways and severe damage. The SlowStick has been revived and recently replaced with another one. The Mini Super Cub too.

So we're really having fun with 3-ch planes and several wings. I even did a Airhog Titan mod this summer and converted it into a pusher. It flew fast but one big impact into the playground made it explode into little pieces of EPS. We got an afternoon out of it but that's all.

So, in the experiences I have had with building wings, assembling ARFs, and then flying these things I can say that the Airfield T-28 was one of the easiest so far. Easier than assembling the SlowStick. Not easier than assembling the Mini Super Cub though.

Also, in my wing building experience I've found that a 32" or 48" is a LOT more stable than a 16" or 18" wing. The 800mm T-28 is a lot more stable than the Champ. I have ailerons set at 50% on low rates so my turns are very gentle. Yet, I have no illusions that I will buy this plane again and again like I have the Champ (even though it is a little cheaper). Once I crash it enough and there are no spare parts in sight at a reasonable price, I'll get something else. The 1400mm Hellcat is one I would like to have some day.

BTW, I got the T-28 for around $60 - $65 during the summer on sale from Nitroplanes. When they have one on sale (like the silver P-47 for $55 on sale right now) it's almost a shame not to get it.

SB


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