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Mar 25, 2010, 12:53 PM
Registered User
twoplanekid's Avatar
Thread OP
New Product

HBZ RTF Champ HBZ4900


Looks cool and a little larger than the PKZ Cub. Just can't figure out why the price of the Champ is $89 RTF and the RTF Cub is $119. I know that my real Cub is worth more than any Champ any day! But still ?
Last edited by twoplanekid; Mar 25, 2010 at 01:15 PM. Reason: add picture
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Mar 25, 2010, 01:21 PM
Fly it like you stole it!
ODUsurfer's Avatar
Here's the link to the new plane, BTW:

Champ RTF by HobbyZone

Yeah, I saw their post on facebook this morning. Insane!

A nice little micro 3-channel trainer plane RTF, for $90 bucks? Horizon Hobby quality? Heck yeah, dude!
Mar 25, 2010, 01:28 PM
Registered User
twoplanekid's Avatar
Thread OP

And the winner(Champ) is


The Champ
Wingspan: 22.4 in (517mm)
Overall Length: 14.3 in (365mm)
Flying Weight: 1.3 oz (38g)
Radio: 3-channel 2.4GHz transmitter with Spektrum DSM
Trim Scheme Colors: Yellow with orange trim
CG (center of gravity): Approximately 28mm from leading edge of the main wing
Prop Size: 130 x 70mm
Recommended Battery: 3.7V 1S 150mAh LiPo (included)
Charger: DC 3.7V LiPo charger (included)
Landing Gear: Fixed main with steerable tail wheel

The Cub
Wingspan: 18.2 in (460 mm)
Overall Length: 12.4 in (314 mm)
Flying Weight: .88 oz (25 g) without battery, 1.0 oz (29g) with battery
Radio: 3-channel 2.4GHz DSM2 receiver
Trim Scheme Colors: Cub yellow with black trim
Prop Size: 100mm x 60mm
Recommended Battery: 3.7V 120mAh Li-Po
Approx. Flying Duration: 6Ė10 minutes
Charger: DC-powered, single-cell Li-Po fast charger
Landing Gear: Fixed main with steerable tail wheel
Mar 25, 2010, 04:06 PM
RDW
RDW
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoplanekid
Looks cool and a little larger than the PKZ Cub. Just can't figure out why the price of the Champ is $89 RTF and the RTF Cub is $119. I know that my real Cub is worth more than any Champ any day! But still ?
maybe they already amortised the tooling costs for the fuselage with the citabria?
Mar 25, 2010, 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoplanekid
Looks cool and a little larger than the PKZ Cub. Just can't figure out why the price of the Champ is $89 RTF and the RTF Cub is $119. I know that my real Cub is worth more than any Champ any day! But still ?
The airframe is all new.
It is tuned and tested to fly well for beginners.
I would think of this as our special low price to get new pilots into the hobby. Beginner products sometimes involve sacrifice!


Have Fun,
David
Mar 25, 2010, 05:48 PM
Woof. Arf. Angle of Attack.
supercorgi's Avatar
This is real cute - to see a Champ in the classic Champ scheme. I wonder if we'll get a Luscombe or Cessna 190 (brushless) at this rate. Aeronca C3?
Mar 25, 2010, 11:23 PM
Registered User
Jerror's Avatar
hmm tuned for beginners? a lil bigger than the cub a lil heavier than the cub ... havin a hard time biting on this on unless it comes in BNF for $60 )
Mar 26, 2010, 07:57 AM
Registered User
twoplanekid's Avatar
Thread OP
As I recall from my Champ days, the visibility out the front on the ground, the ease of entry and exit, and the room inside was much better than the Cub. And now, with the great pricing of your Champ, I may just have to add one, or two, or three to go along with the Cub.
Mar 26, 2010, 08:19 AM
Registered User
Jerror's Avatar
yeah gonna have to fly one and see for sure .... the proof's in the air
Mar 26, 2010, 01:29 PM
Registered User
twoplanekid's Avatar
Thread OP
I once purchased a Pietenpol after having flown in it once as a passenger. Had a friend fly me from Ohio to Brodhead, Wisconsin in his VariEze to pick up the aircraft. As he wouldnít land on the grass runways at Brodhead, we landed at a paved strip close by and I had to get a ride by car to Brodhead.

An airport bum pointed me in the direction of the unlocked hanger that housed my new bird. So, with out instructions and with no help from another sole, I fired up the Piet and headed for Ohio hoping to return before dark.

Maybe it would be wise for me to fly one new Champ before purchasing a second Champ.
Mar 26, 2010, 02:37 PM
Fly it like you stole it!
ODUsurfer's Avatar
Red Rocket Hobbies posted a Youtube video of it yesterday. Looks like a great flying little bird! Looks like they are taking preorders for it as well.

HobbyZone Champ RTF Micro RC Airplane by Hobby Zone (1 min 21 sec)
Mar 26, 2010, 03:56 PM
Registered User
PeteSchug's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoplanekid
As I recall from my Champ days, the visibility out the front on the ground, the ease of entry and exit, and the room inside was much better than the Cub. And now, with the great pricing of your Champ, I may just have to add one, or two, or three to go along with the Cub.
I learned on a Champ. The Champion Aircraft version. My flying instructor switched to the Champ after a first time student sitting behind him in a cub pulled the stick all the way back on takeoff and wrecked the plane. He was unable to do anything except (as he put it) tail walk it down.

After that he decided that he was sitting in the back when he taught. If nothing else at least he could clout the student in the head if need be.

He said it was a good thing the student was able to outrun him or he'd (my instructor) have probably wound up in jail.

Anyway, it's little different than the Champion Aircraft version (more dorsal on that) but close enough to bring up fond memories. BTW. you can see the ground WAY better from the rear seat. I always wondered why my instructor kept seeing deer and stuff that I was missing until I took a rear seat ride to see what it was like. Second BTW. I solo'd on skis. We had real winters in those days.

I wish all these little things were built to the same scale, but I'll take them any way I can get them. Next year I'll complain about scale.

Pete
Mar 26, 2010, 04:11 PM
It works, don't touch it.
skiesthelimit's Avatar
If they made a BNF of this, that would be great! I know this is for beginners and so they have to make a complete beginner package, but a BNF would make for a great deal...
Mar 26, 2010, 05:15 PM
Woof. Arf. Angle of Attack.
supercorgi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoplanekid
I once purchased a Pietenpol after having flown in it once as a passenger. Had a friend fly me from Ohio to Brodhead, Wisconsin in his VariEze to pick up the aircraft. As he wouldnít land on the grass runways at Brodhead, we landed at a paved strip close by and I had to get a ride by car to Brodhead.

An airport bum pointed me in the direction of the unlocked hanger that housed my new bird. So, with out instructions and with no help from another sole, I fired up the Piet and headed for Ohio hoping to return before dark.
So did you make it?
What engine was that Camper flying with, ContA65, Corvair, Model A or?
I'd really love to build a full scale Pietenpol and try to fly it with some of the same 40KW electric motors that some of the other larger electric aircraft are flying with. I'd worry about being able to get enough weight up on the front though. Also alot more interference drag on the Piet, than those slick all composite electrics like the Yuneec 430.
Mar 26, 2010, 07:15 PM
Fly it like you stole it!
ODUsurfer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiesthelimit
If they made a BNF of this, that would be great!
Actually a really good question. David, do you think there'll be a BNF version of this coming out?
Mar 26, 2010, 07:39 PM
Registered User
Jerror's Avatar
wow that thing does fly nice ... but it's so much like the UM cub ... hmm
Mar 26, 2010, 08:28 PM
Registered User
twoplanekid's Avatar
Thread OP
Since someone asked and as I recall, I made it back that same day around dusk after a 5 plus hr flight with four stops for fuel and food. Owned the Piet for almost 10 years. It was a Grega conversion with the Cont 65HP.

At every flyin they would put me with the war birds. Had a great time in warm weather. The tail was a little heavy and was hard for people to get in and out of the front hole. I do believe that the Cub is a little more fun and a better flying aircraft. Can anyone guess what purpose was behind the string with handle in the cockpit?
Last edited by twoplanekid; Mar 26, 2010 at 08:36 PM.
Mar 26, 2010, 09:36 PM
Warbird & Jet Lover
Quote:
Originally Posted by ODUsurfer
Actually a really good question. David, do you think there'll be a BNF version of this coming out?
Not even a remote chance. It's already an RTF at a BNF price, or think of it as a BNF with a free transmitter. If you don't want the transmitter, just toss it! Our strategy was to make it very affordable for the beginner, giving them an entryway to BNF ultra-micros using the small transmitter.

Since I know some are wondering, compared to the J-3, the Champ does have better low-speed handling qualities. It's a little more forgiving for the newbie pilot. It's also significantly larger.
Mar 26, 2010, 11:03 PM
Fly it like you stole it!
ODUsurfer's Avatar
Perfectly reasonable, and good to know, thanks Dave.
Mar 26, 2010, 11:19 PM
"Add Lightness"..Colin Chapman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Eichstedt
Not even a remote chance. It's already an RTF at a BNF price, or think of it as a BNF with a free transmitter. If you don't want the transmitter, just toss it! Our strategy was to make it very affordable for the beginner, giving them an entryway to BNF ultra-micros using the small transmitter.

Since I know some are wondering, compared to the J-3, the Champ does have better low-speed handling qualities. It's a little more forgiving for the newbie pilot. It's also significantly larger.
Is the receiver in the Champ DSM or DSM2?
Am I wrong in saying that if it is DSM it cannot be bound to say a DX6i??
Mar 27, 2010, 12:00 AM
CAP 232-aholic
DiabloKid's Avatar
same question as above. If it binds to my DX-7 then sign me up one of these little gems

also forgot to ask, any time frame on the release?
Mar 27, 2010, 12:02 AM
In the 20' glider range
anti-gravity's Avatar
DSM2
They are useing the same brick and TX as the vapor.
It can be bound to any spectrum TX...
DSM cannot
Mar 27, 2010, 06:58 AM
Registered User
richos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiesthelimit
If they made a BNF of this, that would be great! I know this is for beginners and so they have to make a complete beginner package, but a BNF would make for a great deal...
Dont worry it is bnf.

Quote .
Champís radio system uses the same Spektrum 2.4GHz DSM2 technology that is trusted by experienced RC pilots all around the world.
Mar 27, 2010, 08:16 AM
Registered User
richos's Avatar
Hum! this mite be a new gear box and motor here?

Propeller Shaft: Champ
$2.99 [HBZ4904]

Gear box (no motor): Champ
$6.99 [HBZ4929]

Gear Box with Motor: Champ
$15.19 [HBZ4930]

But the prop is a 4sit



Prop and Spinner 130 x 70 (2): UM 4-Site/Champ

Check out the PDF manual here

http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo...900-Manual.pdf
Mar 27, 2010, 08:49 AM
Registered User
Jerror's Avatar
would be nice to have a lil bigger motor in there
Mar 27, 2010, 09:09 AM
"Add Lightness"..Colin Chapman
Quote:
Originally Posted by anti-gravity
DSM2
They are useing the same brick and TX as the vapor.
It can be bound to any spectrum TX...
DSM cannot
Quote:
Originally Posted by richos
Dont worry it is bnf.

Quote .
Champís radio system uses the same Spektrum 2.4GHz DSM2 technology that is trusted by experienced RC pilots all around the world.
Thank you for answering my inquiry.
Mar 27, 2010, 09:12 AM
Registered User
richos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dribbe
The airframe is all new.
It is tuned and tested to fly well for beginners.
I would think of this as our special low price to get new pilots into the hobby. Beginner products sometimes involve sacrifice!


Have Fun,
David
Dave ... Can you tell us if it is a new motor and gear box !
Or is it a 4-site or p51 motor? just wondering.
Mar 27, 2010, 09:50 AM
In the 20' glider range
anti-gravity's Avatar
I think of this one as the UM CUB with modifications to fly better. The UM CUB had to small of a rudder. As you can tell this one is significantly larger. It also appears that they have made some structural modifications to the tail assembly.

They didn't want to "discontinue" the UM CUB so that is why they made this one. If you look, a good bit of the parts are the exact same from the UM CUB.
I have faith that this one will fly better for beginners. Nice Job HH!!!
I would assume that they have a different gearbox assembly because "it flies slower than the UM CUB"... Which yes it has a bigger wingspan. But knowing HH I am sure they would spend the time to design a new gearbox setup for the Champ.
Mar 27, 2010, 11:55 AM
Registered User
PeteSchug's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoplanekid
[snip]
Can anyone guess what purpose was behind the string with handle in the cockpit?
I know it isn't a yaw string for extreme conditions.

I think it would be nice to have something to get chocks out from under the wheels, but I can't imagine a neat, foolproof way of doing that without the risk of having the chocks not come loose or wind up dangling under the plane. I am absolutely certain it is not a "yankee starter," so I guess I have to wait for an answer from you.

BTW, as models go a Piet would make a nice UM as would a Gere Sport. Any scale Piet of mine would have to have a big radiator sticking up. I had a House of Balsa Piet once that would flat spin really nice. You needed a prop blast on the rudder to stop the rotation.

Pete,
Mar 28, 2010, 07:51 AM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Eichstedt

Since I know some are wondering, compared to the J-3, the Champ does have better low-speed handling qualities. It's a little more forgiving for the newbie pilot. It's also significantly larger.
Dave can you tell us how the champ handles wind compared to the Cub?

After tiring to decide between the P51 and the Cub I had decided on the Cub but I think this maybe more fitting for my needs. I want a cheap transmitter to have on hand for when I did not want to pack up the DX6i. Heavier may allow windier conditions, and great price.
Mar 28, 2010, 02:18 PM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dribbe
The airframe is all new.
It is tuned and tested to fly well for beginners.
I would think of this as our special low price to get new pilots into the hobby. Beginner products sometimes involve sacrifice!


Have Fun,
David
Dribbe (Horizon)
Please feel free to answer if you see my post first.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellysmack
can you tell us how the champ handles wind compared to the Cub?

By the Video it looks like it has plenty of power with the 150mAh batteries?
Mar 28, 2010, 04:58 PM
Registered User
twoplanekid's Avatar
Thread OP
Can anyone guess what purpose was behind the string with handle in the cockpit?

Itís my fly by bungee string rudder trim system. If I need more right rudder, I shorten the bungee string attached to the right rudder pedal. Most of my RC aircraft are light years ahead of the Piet in electronic gismosí (Piet has no electronics) and almost as fun to fly.

In thinking about this new Champ at this low price, it should be a Wally World killer for most hobby shops and Horizon. Can hardly wait for its release!
Mar 29, 2010, 08:11 AM
The building never ends!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerror
wow that thing does fly nice ... but it's so much like the UM cub ... hmm
Sure, if you ignore the extra four inches of wingspan, the extra ten grams of weight, the higher-capacity battery, and the 8 mm motor/gearbox combo, it's just like the Cub.

I want one. It looks like just the ticket for chasing micro thermals on lazy summer days, and I'm sure I'll think of something to do with the Vapor-style TX.
Mar 29, 2010, 09:03 AM
Registered User
madmike8's Avatar
I'm interested in this plane. When I move to my new office over the summer, I will have access to a basketball gym in the same building. I want something I can fly in the gym. I was thinking about a Playmate, but now think the Champ might work. When someone has experience with it indoors, please post your opinions on the plane.

Thanks
Mar 29, 2010, 11:53 AM
Registered User
Jerror's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign Jimmy
Sure, if you ignore the extra four inches of wingspan, the extra ten grams of weight, the higher-capacity battery, and the 8 mm motor/gearbox combo, it's just like the Cub.

I want one. It looks like just the ticket for chasing micro thermals on lazy summer days, and I'm sure I'll think of something to do with the Vapor-style TX.
if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... but a bigger motor and more power would be ok... seems like a copy of the UM cub... -1 for originality ... love Horizon stuff but come on.... don't wanna stir the pot though
Mar 29, 2010, 12:06 PM
Jungmeister 55
simano's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Eichstedt
....
Since I know some are wondering, compared to the J-3, the Champ does have better low-speed handling qualities. It's a little more forgiving for the newbie pilot. It's also significantly larger.
I'm glad you guys enlarged these planes alittle bit.

It seems to me that the 22 to 24" wingspan is a very nice compromise between miniaturization and improved flying characteristics and I hope to see more offered in this range...and don't forget to offer a few bipes as well!!!...hint....check out the Poll vote for a PT-17 stearman hread in the Micro RTF section...

Gerry.
Mar 29, 2010, 12:59 PM
Woof. Arf. Angle of Attack.
supercorgi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerror
if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... but a bigger motor and more power would be ok... seems like a copy of the UM cub... -1 for originality ... love Horizon stuff but come on.... don't wanna stir the pot though
There are a number of differences I am seeing, the Champ has more dihedral, some washout, and a more pronounced under camber on the wing for higher lift at the expense of more drag. It looks like it will have a self-limiting tendency for speed.

Compared to the Cessna Minimum and the Minimum Citabria, the UM J3 is sporty, slick, and very fast with not so much vertical tail effect at high angles, and happily tip stalls at low speeds and bank angles. Also there is a pronounced power-on pitch effect. I would hesitate to recommend it to a beginner.

The Champ looks to handle more like the minimum Citabria, predictable and largely self correcting with uneventful stalls focused on the inner wing, well before the tips. It addresses a need for a low cost, easy going scale trainer that is ready to go out of the box. Something the US domestic market does not have at the moment, or at least in near comparison with the semi-scale Hobbico Playmate.

I think the only similarity they share is that they are both micro-high wing cabin monoplanes. Flight characteristics look quite different.

The more the merrier I say!
Mar 29, 2010, 01:07 PM
In the 20' glider range
anti-gravity's Avatar
Great summary super corgi....
Mar 29, 2010, 01:18 PM
Checking CG is for NERDS!
Smokescreen38's Avatar
This looks pretty neat. It might fill the relaxing evening flyer slot left by my worn out UM PZ Cessna 210.

How will this thing go with a Power10?
Mar 29, 2010, 03:39 PM
In the 20' glider range
anti-gravity's Avatar
hmmm.....
Like the UM cub lol
Mar 30, 2010, 08:18 AM
Registered User
Jerror's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by simano
I'm glad you guys enlarged these planes alittle bit.

It seems to me that the 22 to 24" wingspan is a very nice compromise between miniaturization and improved flying characteristics and I hope to see more offered in this range...and don't forget to offer a few bipes as well!!!...hint....check out the Poll vote for a PT-17 stearman hread in the Micro RTF section...

Gerry.
now that would be cool^^^^^^
Mar 30, 2010, 11:06 AM
Registered User
100% in agreement. This looks like the perfect outdoor/some indoor replacement for the now discontinued 210 and citabria.

I havn't had a micro that I could fly without ANY worry since I decomissioned my Cit to build something out of sticks. I love my floaty stick and tissue stuff but when they are close to the floor...I still get nervous. I look forward to flying "silly" again.
Mar 30, 2010, 06:53 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
It looks like a black belled Mustang 8.4mm motor in the pictures. That would be silly and would allow it to climb vertical.

Putting the SU-26 motor in there would make more sense.

Ok, so the black belled motor pic also shows an AR6400 (X-port visible) and no a Vapor Brick, so it probably won't have a mustang motor, either.
Last edited by UNGN; Mar 30, 2010 at 09:11 PM.
Mar 31, 2010, 12:35 AM
Warbird crazy!
new2rc's Avatar
Darn, I was all set on the UM Cub now I have to wait for this first.

It really does look like a good choice for some calm slow flying with touch and goes at lunch.

John

Found the subject. Just have to fashion the struts.
Last edited by new2rc; Mar 31, 2010 at 12:38 AM. Reason: Added pic
Mar 31, 2010, 11:41 AM
Registered User
Darn HBZ caused me to dig into my wallet again! Got one on BO from Redrocket. Early Fathers day present
Mar 31, 2010, 03:31 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwman
Darn HBZ caused me to dig into my wallet again! Got one on BO from Redrocket. Early Fathers day present
Me too. It looks fun to fly. Plan to pass the transmitter and my Ember on to my son.

Brian
Last edited by BrianSch; Mar 31, 2010 at 04:10 PM.
Apr 05, 2010, 04:48 AM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
I have one Preordered
Apr 05, 2010, 10:40 AM
semper mitis
gentle ben's Avatar
These darn planes are worse than potato chips... you get started and you just can't stop
Apr 05, 2010, 07:11 PM
Registered User
I just preordered from Red Rocket Hobbies. Where can you get extra batteries and props?
Apr 07, 2010, 04:12 AM
Registered User
It looks like this will be my next plane. These ARE like potato chips!
Apr 07, 2010, 10:24 AM
Registered User
Looks like a contender for my next plane... something small enough to (barely) fly in my back yard, and easily in local parks, or the quads on campus.
Apr 07, 2010, 06:30 PM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
I normally wait for the reviews, the maker to get all the bugs out, and the price drop!
This came out at a time when I was looking for a back yard Plane that I could use the transmitter with my MSR or bind with my Dx6i, and the fact that or to my shock at a reasonable completive price! It may have some bugs, but Horizon has a reputation for backing their products.
Have the shipment hit the water?
Apr 07, 2010, 06:36 PM
Warbird & Jet Lover
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellysmack
Have the shipment hit the water?
Yes
Apr 07, 2010, 07:04 PM
Registered User
VasMan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Eichstedt
Yes
Woo hoo!!!
Apr 07, 2010, 07:29 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Eichstedt
Yes
Nice! Thanks for the update... is there any official release date yet? The closest I've seen so far is "probably mid-May", which is a bit vague. 8-)

Thanks again.
Apr 11, 2010, 07:12 AM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar

History = Anti-Cub design goals?


As I wait was looking up some history found this.
http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%...onca/pirep.htm
Apr 11, 2010, 11:01 AM
Registered User
PeteSchug's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellysmack
As I wait was looking up some history found this.
http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%...onca/pirep.htm
Very nice,

I learned in a Champ, and one of the funny things that I found out (eventually) was that you could see the ground better from the back seat. My instructor was always spotting deer and stuff that I missed. I thought he just had better eyes. (I was and probably still correct to 20 20) Then one day I asked to be checked out in the back seat. Yeah, you can't see forward so good, but WOW can you ever see down!

BTW, he used to teach in J3's but one day he had a new student who was a bit delirious, as in having crazy fantasies about how airplanes fly. As soon as they were off the ground this guy pulled full back stick. My instructor couldn't push the stick forward and in his words, "I tail walked it down." meaning he managed to keep it in harrier position until the tail hit the ground and they crashed. He chased the guy with the intention of beating him to a pulp but fortunately the guy got away. Fortunately, because my instructor would probably have wound up in jail.

After that incident he decided that he wanted to sit BEHIND his students so he could clout them in the head if needed. In my case he never had to clout me in the head and as mentioned he even let me check out in the back seat.

Pete
Apr 15, 2010, 07:31 PM
Jimfrisky
Champ has always been a favorite of mine. Clean simple lines and my first rc plane that flew really well was a debolt livewire champ lol guess that dates me. Thanks horizon keep them comeing ! Would love to see some bipes. Come to think of it put a wing under the champ and it would look like Marks sunny lol
Last edited by JIMFRISKY; Apr 16, 2010 at 04:48 AM.
Apr 30, 2010, 10:04 PM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
Man at the hobby shop said they should be getting in around 5/6/10
May 07, 2010, 10:43 AM
Registered User
twoplanekid's Avatar
Thread OP
Now is stock! Are you having fun yet? On one, the motor mount was a little bit too far forward which makes the prop shaft gear rub on the inside of the front cowling. Other than this, it looks great. I am now waiting for the winds to die down for the first flight.

1hr. later - could not wait. Few in winds of 20k gusting to 25k. Now, the area I fly in is a little larger than a gym and is surrounded by trees that bear most of the force of the wind. It seemed like I was under control for the whole flight. The Champ can fly much easier in this small area as compared to the P-51 and seems to not have the tip stall tendencies of the Cub. It has plenty of power to keep flying. The landing gear seems to want to spring out of the keepers when landing on grass. A joy to fly and a must to have!
Last edited by twoplanekid; May 07, 2010 at 12:37 PM.
May 07, 2010, 08:19 PM
Warbird crazy!
new2rc's Avatar
Alright twoplanekid!
Congrats.

I stopped by my LHS for some paint and what do ya know they just got in about 8 of these pups .

Now they have 7 .

Hoping to maiden her tomorrow then get to work on some struts.

John
May 07, 2010, 11:10 PM
Registered User
VasMan's Avatar
Picked up two (one for self, one for friend) today from LHS. The plane looks really nice, but weather this afternoon has been anything, but micro friendly..

Vas
May 08, 2010, 12:44 AM
Eating Bacon :)
greghol's Avatar
Thanks Vas.

Yep, The wind is blowing alittle hard here.

Notice the wings? Under cut but they have some thickness to it. All I managed to do is taxi around on the ground so far.

Greg
May 08, 2010, 10:36 AM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
My LHS said next week, Hope Mine is not back ordered. WINDS NUTS here.

Just called LHS the next delivery (Their first Champs) will be Thursday. Ooooooh Immm DIEING
May 08, 2010, 10:43 AM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoplanekid
Now is stock! Are you having fun yet? On one, the motor mount was a little bit too far forward which makes the prop shaft gear rub on the inside of the front cowling. Other than this, it looks great. I am now waiting for the winds to die down for the first flight.

1hr. later - could not wait. Few in winds of 20k gusting to 25k. Now, the area I fly in is a little larger than a gym and is surrounded by trees that bear most of the force of the wind. It seemed like I was under control for the whole flight. The Champ can fly much easier in this small area as compared to the P-51 and seems to not have the tip stall tendencies of the Cub. It has plenty of power to keep flying. The landing gear seems to want to spring out of the keepers when landing on grass. A joy to fly and a must to have!
Thanks for the report sound great.
20k gusting to 25k? how does that compare to mph?
May 08, 2010, 09:11 PM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%...onca/pirep.htm
some good read
May 08, 2010, 09:35 PM
Registered User
twoplanekid's Avatar
Thread OP
20 Knots = 23.0 MPH . I call the AWOS at Grimes Field, about two miles away, for the current winds and other weather info.
May 09, 2010, 12:24 PM
The building never ends!
I picked up one of these yesterday. Naturally I got around to doing this after the indoor fly-in, which is a shame, because it would've been a good gymnasium plane.

Opening the box, it looks very scale. Just needs some struts to complete the scale appearance. It even has scale wingtips, which helps its stall characteristics immensely. The only really non-scale things about it are the dihedral and the amount of undercamber in the wing.

Decided to try flying it this morning with the cheap-o TX that it came with, though I will re-bind it to a better radio later. There is no mention in the manual about the Champ's CoG, that I could find straight off. So I just stuck the battery as far forward in the compartment as possible, which seems to be where it is supposed to go. Took the throttle up and gave it a light toss. Mine climbs aggressively under power and require several clicks of down trim on the elevator to keep it level at one-half throttle or less. It flies as precisely as a three-channel plane can, even with the cheap TX. Climb and descent rates are predictable for a given level of throttle.

The stall characteristics are mild. It will give some warning (by way of a little wing-rock) before it stalls. When it does so, it tends to drop a wingtip and then mush forward into a shallow, descending turn (though I admit this wingtip drop may have been because the stock TX with its tiny sticks and no expo might be registering some rudder to go with the elevator I was giving it.) It is stable enough that you can get it into any bizarre orientation and release the sticks, and the plane will recover into level flight with enough altitude. All the usual three-channel aerobatics are possible. Inverted flight requires quite a bit of finesse.

Flight time? Long. I'm not exactly sure how long it'll go on that 150 mAH cell, though I suspect over 10 minutes at half throttle or less might be a reasonable number to expect.

Oh yeah, and it'll haul a 10 gram keychain camera with no complaint and little negative impact to its flight performance. Sadly, I should've thought to recharge the camera's battery before affixing it to the plane, as I got back a zero byte video file.
May 09, 2010, 10:20 PM
Registered User
Thanks for the review -- I've been waiting on one before buying, but this looks about perfect for me. A little bigger (and hopefully more capable of dealing with wind) than the Ember2, but still small enough to fly in my backyard.
May 09, 2010, 10:30 PM
Registered User
twoplanekid's Avatar
Thread OP
Are we trying to catch the Champ or into the bushes again? The rudder, forward extension, above the top hinge needs to be reinforced. I will take a picture of the damaged area. The rubber throws are fine and it's not too tail heavy. My excuse for any damages to the Champ is that the area is small, winds are strong, looking out for kids, .....
Last edited by twoplanekid; May 10, 2010 at 07:52 AM.
May 10, 2010, 06:24 AM
Registered User
Do you mean the rudder throw is not enough, and the plane is tail heavy? What about the hinge?
Thanks for sharing everyone, i've ordered the night vapor, and am looking at the P51 too, but this one looks really nice for my 2 kids to learn flying.
May 10, 2010, 07:05 AM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
Question
On my old Firebird Outlaw I covered the leading wing edge with packing tape and it really helped with the preserving the main wing. Is this still a common practice?
May 10, 2010, 01:55 PM
Registered User
twoplanekid's Avatar
Thread OP
A wrinkle on the rudder that was not there when new! As the Champ rudder has more area here than the Cub, it needs to be reinforced at this location. With the wrinkle, rudder authority is diminished. A little tape on both sides should help fix the issue and might have prevented it from happening in the first place.
May 10, 2010, 04:08 PM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoplanekid
A wrinkle on the rudder that was not there when new! As the Champ rudder has more area here than the Cub, it needs to be reinforced at this location. With the wrinkle, rudder authority is diminished. A little tape on both sides should help fix the issue and might have prevented it from happening in the first place.
Thanks for the heads up, was that from flying or from flipping in grass?
I could see taping a toothpick on as well.
May 10, 2010, 04:17 PM
In the 20' glider range
anti-gravity's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellysmack
Question
On my old Firebird Outlaw I covered the leading wing edge with packing tape and it really helped with the preserving the main wing. Is this still a common practice?
On "larger" planes yes. But with these micros we try to keep them light.
Don't worry about it on ths plane.
May 10, 2010, 04:28 PM
Registered User
twoplanekid's Avatar
Thread OP
The old PKZ Citabria rudder would fail in the same location. How did it happen on the Champ? Didn’t notice the issue until the Champ was hard to turn in flight. More than likely a collision with something rather than from flight fatigue.
Last edited by twoplanekid; May 10, 2010 at 07:54 PM.
May 10, 2010, 04:29 PM
In the 20' glider range
anti-gravity's Avatar
You mean to say rudder right?
May 10, 2010, 06:52 PM
Warbird crazy!
new2rc's Avatar
Guys,

I have the blade mcx and noted that the Champ makes a fairly noticible humming when powered up compared to the heli.

Is that normal for this guy?

Thanks,
John
May 10, 2010, 07:45 PM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoplanekid
The old PKZ Citabria rubber would fail in the same location. How did it happen on the Champ? Didnít notice the issue until the Champ was hard to turn in flight. More than likely a collision with something rather than from flight fatigue.
That looks like a weak spot
Maybe a carbon fiber rod glued in place? Tape may help prevent but once bent?
May 10, 2010, 07:54 PM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
I will need to find some touch up paint to for scratches, I think a acrylic paint would be non foam eater, I bet there is something close in color.

I know two strips of foam from, disposable foam dinner plates, one on each side. (not CF rod)

Still waiting for mine, I would have thought they would have been to our hobby shop buy now; I am in the same state as horizon.
Last edited by Hellysmack; May 10, 2010 at 07:59 PM.
May 10, 2010, 08:18 PM
Registered User
twoplanekid's Avatar
Thread OP
Flew fine tonight in calm winds with small strips of clear packing tape on both sides of the rudder to eliminate bending of rudder caused by a crease. I would say that the Champ is a vast improvement over the PKZ Citabria. It canít fly quite as slow. However, the Champ seems to be as maneuverable with much more power and flexibility.
May 10, 2010, 09:20 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Has anyone opened theirs up to check the color of the motor bell?

Is it black or translucent white?
May 10, 2010, 09:34 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellysmack
I will need to find some touch up paint to for scratches, I think a acrylic paint would be non foam eater, I bet there is something close in color.

I know two strips of foam from, disposable foam dinner plates, one on each side. (not CF rod)

Still waiting for mine, I would have thought they would have been to our hobby shop buy now; I am in the same state as horizon.
Let us know about the paint.....
I just got mine in today but winds wont let me go out and crash on my own.

....Grits
May 11, 2010, 05:54 AM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoplanekid
Flew fine tonight in calm winds with small strips of clear packing tape on both sides of the rudder to eliminate bending of rudder caused by a crease. I would say that the Champ is a vast improvement over the PKZ Citabria. It canít fly quite as slow. However, the Champ seems to be as maneuverable with much more power and flexibility.
Glad to hear that sounds promising, is it Thursday yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNGN
Has anyone opened theirs up to check the color of the motor bell?

Is it black or translucent white?
What does that tell you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grits
Let us know about the paint.....
I just got mine in today but winds wont let me go out and crash on my own.

....Grits
As soon as I have mine in my hands, my wife has a larger selection of paints so I will look there first.
May 11, 2010, 07:09 AM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellysmack
What does that tell you?
The Black belled motor is the mustang motor, the translucent white motor is the Sukhoi motor.

The Mustang motor has more power, but needs good batteries. The sukhoi motor will fly for longer than the mustang motor on equivalent batteries and can use batteries that the Mustang motor cannot (like HK 138's batteries).

If it has a Sukhoi motor, Power freaks can upgrade to a mustang motor and Cheapskates can run $2 batteries with the stocker.

The champ Prototype had a Mustang motor, but it also had an AR6400, but we know it didn't get one of those.
May 11, 2010, 09:00 AM
rotor head
EP_Heli's Avatar
This may just be the next plane for me! I'm sick and tired of waiting for Tower to get Playmate parts in stock and I was thinking of ordering a whole new one. For about ten dollars more, it's a no-brainer to get the Champ instead. I still want to fix my Playmate, and there is nothing wrong with having two nice R/C planes!

I had the pleasure of flying a real Champ once and I've been in love with the type ever since. I've been waiting for a micro R/C version too.
May 11, 2010, 10:30 AM
Airplane Killer
SumthinsFishy's Avatar
I picked one up at the LHS yesterday, and went from there directly to a local indoor event. I got to the site only a little before it finished. After cutting the tape, opening the, and starting to charge the battery, we got the plane out and were pretty impressed with its appearance. Since its battery wasn't charged, a friend offered let me borrow one of his to maiden the plane. I hesitated a little because all he had were 70maH cells. But impatience won out, and I installed one of those. set the plane on the floor advanced the throttle and took off at just over 1/2 throttle. The little plane flew well in our small gym, and slowed down nicely. It would fly on about 1/3 throttle if I kept it flat. I wanted a little more rudder authority in that small space, but there was enough to manage. The plane was pretty pitch sensitive. I suspect it was slightly tail-heavy with that 70maH battery. The little battery provided plenty of power, while advancing the throttle on the ground the motor kept accelerating all the way up. We didn't fly out the battery, but we did make a couple flights of several minutes each. The 150maH battery never finished charging before the event ended, so I haven't tried that one yet, It's pretty windy today, so I'm not sure when I will.
I'd say its a good little airplane, and I'm looking forward to getting some more time with it.
Dave
May 11, 2010, 01:10 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumthinsFishy
I picked one up at the LHS yesterday, and went from there directly to a local indoor event. I got to the site only a little before it finished. After cutting the tape, opening the, and starting to charge the battery, we got the plane out and were pretty impressed with its appearance. Since its battery wasn't charged, a friend offered let me borrow one of his to maiden the plane. I hesitated a little because all he had were 70maH cells. But impatience won out, and I installed one of those. set the plane on the floor advanced the throttle and took off at just over 1/2 throttle. The little plane flew well in our small gym, and slowed down nicely. It would fly on about 1/3 throttle if I kept it flat. I wanted a little more rudder authority in that small space, but there was enough to manage. The plane was pretty pitch sensitive. I suspect it was slightly tail-heavy with that 70maH battery. The little battery provided plenty of power, while advancing the throttle on the ground the motor kept accelerating all the way up. We didn't fly out the battery, but we did make a couple flights of several minutes each. The 150maH battery never finished charging before the event ended, so I haven't tried that one yet, It's pretty windy today, so I'm not sure when I will.
I'd say its a good little airplane, and I'm looking forward to getting some more time with it.
Dave

That makes me think its a White belled Sukhoi motor in there. A mustang won't even take off with a 70 mAh battery. If it has a Mustang motor, I'll be shocked.
May 11, 2010, 01:46 PM
Airplane Killer
SumthinsFishy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNGN
That makes me think its a White belled Sukhoi motor in there. A mustang won't even take off with a 70 mAh battery. If it has a Mustang motor, I'll be shocked.
It took off at just over half throttle, and there was still plenty more current available. You may be right. I think the mustang motor would have run into obvious current limiting before full throttle.
May 11, 2010, 04:05 PM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
dont forget it has a diffrent gearbox than the P-51
May 11, 2010, 04:36 PM
I just wanna fly
slozuke's Avatar
I got my Champ last Friday and was lucky to get a first flight on Saturday morning before the winds kicked up.

My first flight was straight out of the box. I quickly found the Champ is quirky on the high rate. A quick landing, change the transmitter to low rate and back in the air. Much better! Take offs were able to be done with about 1/2 throttle and a slow cruise at about 1/3 throttle. Loops and turns quite nicely and recovers itself from just about any attitude.
Landings are a piece o' cake! Just cut the throttle back to idle, set up a glide and guide her in! The Champ likes to float so I found myself doing some quick power off circles to land just to bring it down.
Glad I got this plane, it'll be a lot of fun to take along to my various glider competitions to play with during fun fly sessions!
I'm going to try to bind it to my X9303. I'll post again after I give it a try.
May 11, 2010, 04:47 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by slozuke
I got my Champ last Friday and was lucky to get a first flight on Saturday morning before the winds kicked up.

My first flight was straight out of the box. I quickly found the Champ is quirky on the high rate. A quick landing, change the transmitter to low rate and back in the air. Much better! Take offs were able to be done with about 1/2 throttle and a slow cruise at about 1/3 throttle. Loops and turns quite nicely and recovers itself from just about any attitude.
Landings are a piece o' cake! Just cut the throttle back to idle, set up a glide and guide her in! The Champ likes to float so I found myself doing some quick power off circles to land just to bring it down.
Glad I got this plane, it'll be a lot of fun to take along to my various glider competitions to play with during fun fly sessions!
I'm going to try to bind it to my X9303. I'll post again after I give it a try.
I had the LHS bind mine to my XP9303.....but I dont know how to set up rates, etc....Let me know what you find.

Thanks
Andy
May 11, 2010, 04:50 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellysmack
dont forget it has a diffrent gearbox than the P-51
It would be dumb for it not to use the same gear ratio/spur gear as the Mustang, though, since its the same as the Sukhoi, 4 site, Christen Eagle and Edge 540.
May 11, 2010, 05:21 PM
Airplane Killer
SumthinsFishy's Avatar
OK. Curiosity go the best of me. I opened it to take a look. It's a white endbell, the motor measures 8.5 x 19mm.
Here's a pick of the guts Sorry for the quality of the motor pic, but you get the idea...
Dave
May 11, 2010, 08:11 PM
What package dear?
Hellysmack's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNGN
It would be dumb for it not to use the same gear ratio/spur gear as the Mustang, though, since its the same as the Sukhoi, 4 site, Christen Eagle and Edge 540.
Going by parts replacements Sukhoi and P-51 have same part numbers for Motor and gear box
Motor not listed alone for Champ but Gear box has different part number.

Champ
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...arts%20Listing
Gear Box (No Motor): Champ
$6.99 [HBZ4929]

Gear Box with Motor: Champ
$15.19 [HBZ4930]

Sukhoi
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...prodDetailTabs
Gearbox without Motor: Sukhoi Su-26m, Micro P-51
$5.99 [PKZ3527]

Motor: Sukhoi Su-26m
$11.99 [PKZ3516]

P-51
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...arts%20Listing
Gearbox without Motor: Sukhoi Su-26m, Micro P-51
$5.99 [PKZ3527]

Motor: Micro P-51
$11.39 [PKZ3616]

Motor and Gear Box: Micro P-51
$14.24 [PKZ3624]
May 11, 2010, 10:26 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumthinsFishy
OK. Curiosity go the best of me. I opened it to take a look. It's a white endbell, the motor measures 8.5 x 19mm.
Here's a pick of the guts Sorry for the quality of the motor pic, but you get the idea...
Dave
Just as I thought. Sukhoi motor.
May 11, 2010, 10:28 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellysmack
Going by parts replacements Sukhoi and P-51 have same part numbers for Motor and gear box

Motor: Sukhoi Su-26m
$11.99 [PKZ3516]

Motor: Micro P-51
$11.39 [PKZ3616]
They are the same part number if the numbers 6 and 5 are the same number (only when following a 3).

Otherwise they are different part numbers.
May 11, 2010, 10:51 PM
Registered User
VasMan's Avatar
Finally got a chance to fly it this morning (for more than 30 seconds), before the wind picked up again, and about an hour ago (around 8:00PM), until I got tired of being eaten by the mosquitoes (still scratching like crazy!!!). Technically I had maiden it on Sunday, for about 30 seconds, in between the wind blowing about 20MPH and a deluge that came about 2 minutes later.

The Champ has tons of power at full throttle, holds altitude well at about 1/2 throttle, and flies a little faster than the ultra-micro J-3 Cub (at least seems like it), but definitely has a much better glide ratio than the UM J-3. If launched like a small DLG (grabbed by the wingtip and tossed), it can easily climb to about 15-20' in 20' at about 45į angle and continue climbing at about 30į or so. During this morning flights I have attached my keychain camera (paint already coming off the fuselage) and took couple short videos, one of which I'll post sometime later tonight on YouTube.

Just like the UM J-3, having extra weight on board (like a camera) helps with light winds, since it doesn't bounce around as much. It has a tendency to "turn" into the wind, as do most planes with a wing dihedral. It flew OK out of the box, but adjusting the elevator helped a little. Now I can toss it lightly and it will gently glide to the ground.

Vas
May 12, 2010, 12:13 AM
Warbird crazy!
new2rc's Avatar
Another successful maiden .

I was out for some flying at our club field tonight and when the wind finally died down a bit near sunset it was time for the Champ.

She took off with half throttle and climb out was surprising. The wind picked up again the wind sock at 45 degrees and I thought the Champ may just blow away. I gave her some down elevator and 3/4 throttle and no problem cutting into the wind. Did a couple of loops and some sharp turns. This plane will as they say turn on a dime.

After about 5 minutes time to land so I walked the Champ down the wind for a nice 3 pointer. I see many fun flights ahead with this one. A winner for sure.

John
May 12, 2010, 01:08 AM
Registered User
VasMan's Avatar
As mentioned above, here's an on-board video from the Champ.

Enjoy,

Vas

HobbyZone Champ with on-board camera (2 min 45 sec)


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