Hey Ming how about designing a high performance plank for your next plane. The Bat really doesn't fit the bill - you have to do heaps of mods to make it go really well (cut out reflex, ditch EPP elevons, ditch the hens feet stabs, install proper spars, etc...). I reckon you'd sell a few of them, people eventually move on from combat wings...
I don't like use Bat for slope combat, because Bat always stall after each hit and not easy to recover like Bees. Who can suggest how to make a new Bat with big improvement?
Who maiden the Scout Bee yet?
I think the Scout Bee is good enough for FPV base on the large wing area and lower wingloading. Bee and Bee2 airfoil can fly slower but not efficient like Beevo.
Another good point is Scout Bee can carry more gear and still keep the wingspan reasonable not like the Queen.
Yes, I mix up two airfoil in the beginning because we have so many Bees now.
Yes!! definitely Ming -- the Bat kit can be improved heaps with hopefully not too much effort. I've made two Bats both heavily modifed and they fly great - it was just quite a bit of work doing the mods. I'd be very keen to buy more if there was less to do next time. The Bat is a great step up between a combat wing and a full on plank - I reckon mine DS's about 75% of the speed of my Reaper plank (vs about 30% for my Beevolutions!), but is way tougher so better for getting started and "experimenting" with.
Some mods -
1. Replace the EPP elevons (!!!) these are so flexible I honestly don't see how they would work for anyone -- especially at the speed the Bat gets up to.
2. More spars!! The 60% span light weight (is it carbon or is it plastic?) spar just doesn't cut it at all. My Superfreak has 4 2.5mm full span FG spars (two top two bottom), this is probably overkill but I made it for DSing - my less modified Bat has just 2 full span FG spars + the standard one and its probably adequate -- but I also use Lam film which adds a ton of strength.
3. Ditch the reflex - all it does is slow it down
4. Replace the hens feet vertical stabs - no serious sloper would be caught dead with these fitted! I've gone with a center fin potted into the wing so it pops out in a bad crash and is easily replaceable. Seems to work well.
5. More space for lead in the front. My latest Bat has the entire battery bay filled with lead, plus two small lead sinkers just behind it, and the battery installed just slightly forward of the CG and it still tucks under on a high speed DS pass! (admittedly I did go overboard with the Lam Film so has quite a bit of extra weight on the back of the wing). I reckon for the Bat its actually better to get the battery just forward of the CG (where it is better protected) and have as much space up front as possible for lead - which you need if you build them mega tough).
6. Ship it with some Lam Film -- it not only adds bucket loads of stiffness and strength, it results in a super smooth finish. And its dirt cheap!
You could also consider changing the shape slightly as per the Superfreak mod. This flys really well and is a breeze to DS. It also has the advantage of needing less weight to balance.
Thats all I can think of at the moment - I'm sure others will chime in with their 2c worth too.
BTW the Bat is a superb plane one you modify it!
My (modified) Bats:
Decided that I needed a flying wing, as
a) I didn't have one
b) I was at work, bored
c) SWMBO couldn't stop me (as I was at work)
Researched loads on the 'interweb, and found that various interweb dwellers had a high regard for "Windrider" products.
As I'm getting on a bit I decided to get something a bit bigger than the 48" wings and went for one that Ming has just put into production a few weeks ago
The "Scout Bee 60" EPP flying wing"
Ordered it, and it arrived about 2 weeks later, the box had 99.99% of everything I needed (I changed the linkage to the elevons as I don't like the slop you get from "Z" bends)
3 whisky sodden evenings in the garage later
2) Applying Tape
3) Footering with linkages
4) more application of tape
5) sorting the CofG
6) Doing the CofG properly (as I had comprehensively messed it up by not reading enough 'interweb drivel)
(There are significant time dilation effects in my garage while I'm building, something to do with liquid adhesives and whisky, but it said "a couple of evenings construction and it'll be complete!" ;D
The components are really really really nicely done, ribbon spars which slot in, enough carbon fibre to support something massive like Jordans cleaveage. (so, no problems with an EPP wing then )
I sent Ming (designer / salesman) a queery on the control throws last night at about 11pm our time, he answered within 5 minutes, I sent him another queery on CofG, he answered that one in about 3 minutes.
The kit is excellent and the support is brilliant.
Today was lovely, blue, warm (ish) and forecast for the wind to pick up in the afternoon. some East in the nominal southerly.
Mrs G and I had scouted around the house yesterday for possible launch sites and returned today as although quite south for the slopes I was hopeful that it would be strong enough and or the Scout Bee would be efficient enough to get around the cross slope winds.
So, site 1, attempt 1 official "maiden"
although, I was just having a "Feel" for the conditions in the photo above.
I really don't like having to grab the tranny after launching something, So my long serving "batten bunny" (SWMBO) the term "batten bunny" comes from the Hanggliding I used to do and SWMBO was my faithful batten stuffer.
So, training was indulged in,
Followed by maiden launch
Which was a bit steep in the "down" direction ;D
(Not as windy as I was hoping for, but launched anyway)
followed by a swift plummet to the beach
Not to be dettered, The "official photographer was despatched "doon the cliif" to get the "lead sled"
swiftly followed by a yomp to a venue I could see gulls actually staying up (without flapping) on.
So, we arrived at location 2 and during the plummet that was the maiden I had figured out that I had waaaaaaaaay too much down elevator in, I had no idea where to have the elevons in relation to the wing. ??? I had read that "cruise" was about 15 Deg up to give reflex but thought that must be rubbish as you don't have "reflex" on a delta wing (although we did on hanggliders, it came in when you were going fast)
But decided that flying with full back stick to keep the wing level and it still wasn't stalling meant that I needed to get some "reflex" on the wing
Now, how does this damn tranny work ? (wish I'd bought the Futaba : )
Scout launch site 2
Batten bunny primed and ready to go
And with a distinctly girly throw, it's off ! (again)
And looking half reasonable !
The "official photographer" managed to get some stunning pictures, this amongst them.
Struggling to get above the top and really hugging the narrow lift band,
being out with the tribe, I only stayed up for about 5 mins as to not bore the pants off them.
The lift was really borderline as the gulls were only really getting up in the sea thermals that were coming through and I don't have the experience to work them yet.
So a wee flight followed by an "arrival" in the park behind us,
'official photographer" despatched again.
Now it was level, but there was a barbed wire and electric fence to get through to recover the lead sled.
I risk assessed this and concluded that the safest way to retrieve the wing, was to send the boy off to get it for me
I had a simply fantastic wee jaunt.
The kit is really comprehensive, there are no instructions whatsoever but the materiel available on the web gives you all the answers you need.
Mostly, I made a mess of the original CofG set up as I based it on a post for a Scout Bee not a Scout Bee 60" .
It took 247g of weight forward of the CofG to get the CofG at 8.5 inches
Ming told me it should be at 10 inches (where it flies really sweetly) it took 147g right at the tips (behind the CofG) to balance at 10 inches.
DW sent me all the gubbins for the kit. I asked for a "beast" of a battery and there is a 4600 Mah NiCad installed, hence the requirement for all the weight to get the CofG right.
Lorraine "Batten Bunny"
Ming, ace kit !
A couple comments..
1. Yes all flying wings and planks fly with some reflex. The more nose heavy you are
the more reflex it'll require. With the rearmost CG that it can fly at, the elevons
will usually be just about lined up with the bottom of the wing, which gives
them a slight amount of reflex (viewed from the top of the wing).
2. Are you saying you added lead up front to get the CG to 8.5 (which is the ideal
CG of a 48" Bee) , and then more lead behind the CG to move it back to 10 inches?
Or you took the lead out of the nose and still had to add some at the tips to get to 10 inches?
My guess is (based on previous experience with the 48" Bee)
that 10 is probably still pretty conservative and it can move back further,
but you'll need to reduce your elevator throws.
Second guess was correct Ian,
I was using duff info to set the CofG initially at 8.5 (Never flew it at that)
took the weight out of the nose and put some back into the tips to balance at 10"
Bear in mind I have a monster of a battery onboard, a huge lump of a NiMh battery.
If I'd put in an A123 pack it probably would have been spot on for the CofG with no weight.
(But, I live in Scotland, it's rare that we are short of wind . . )
It flies really slowly at that but doesn't stall, just gets "mushy"
I used neodynium magnets (small and dense) for ballast.
You can just see them in a strip on the tip.
higher def image, you can zoom in to see the weights.
Last edited by airwave45; Apr 03, 2010 at 11:07 AM.
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