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Mar 03, 2010, 12:43 PM
Go on just 1 more beer then
Rob AR's Avatar
Thread OP
Help!

History of F5D


I am going to be doing a few low key club talks locally on F5D. Thought the basic theme will be how electric flight has progressed in general using the times and development of Electric Pylon as the example and see how many glow heads I can convert to thinking that us electric pilots might not be as crazy as they think we are

This post is a call for help.

I am looking for as much information as possible to pull together a history of F5D. Early world champ photos or models and equipment. I am hoping that there are a lot of Photos around as I see that both The USA & Canada have been activly involved for a good few years and doing well.

I also would like (if you give permission) to use the info and pictures for a online History on the UK F5D site although that will be some time away.

Here hoping you all can help.

Cheers

Rob
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Mar 03, 2010, 01:47 PM
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WimH's Avatar
I'll try...

Here is some info:

http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/f5d_wcs.htm
http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/f5d_models.htm

My main interest is F5b, but I've seen it all from the beginning. Around 1980 pylon racers used up to 24sub-C cells, 1.1 to 1.2 mAh at that time. Models were, amongst others, Fritz Geist's HotDog, Denis Kuhn's SchmeissFliege ... I once threw Michel Blommaart's (the late Peter Blommaart's brother)Hotdog,Keller 50/24SL, 9*6 Taipan prop and a bunch of nicads, seemed to pull as hard as F5B models do now. Heavier though(>3kg!)....Cannot remember lap times from those days, but I do rmember Denis Kuhn flying 12 laps in the time his opponents needed to fly 10.He also asked me to flag the far pylon for him while training. He was alone, no helper. Did not need to flag, he always "just" rounded the (1-2m past it) pylon, never cut...

Denis Kuhn flew single blade propellers for a while. He showed me how to make and balance them with copper and soldering lead and a broken propeller.... Said he used them only because there was 50% less chance of breaking them when landing.

If I can dig up more, I'll post again...

one of Seb's "hotdog" photos (His brother Francis Maes used to fly them, I saw him pull a wing in two in a turn..)

Last edited by WimH; Mar 03, 2010 at 05:14 PM.
Mar 03, 2010, 02:23 PM
Speed King
MarkChinery's Avatar
my old man is likely to have model mags with articles/pictures of F5 WC's from the 90's. this will obviously give model details, motors cells etc, etc. Also hell have the who BEFA magazine collection with early UK F5D information in.

Ill see what i can lay my hands on for you.
Mar 03, 2010, 02:43 PM
Caution:Makes sharp left turns
Troy's Avatar
I'll see what I can dig up. I have a bunch of old photos but my old personal site was shut down on AOL a while back. PM me your email.
Mar 03, 2010, 03:08 PM
Registered User
I got into F5D in 1996 from a background in Sport 40 and Club 20. The first electric model I ever flew was an F5D. Back then we used brushed motors (I used Lehner) with Stefan Merz speed controllers and 7 NiCd cells.

Barrie Lever built me a fuselage and cut some wings for a model that was really too big but I won the 1996 British Nats with it. I think this was the first year F5D featured at the Nats. I also won in 1997, I think with a Teufelchen and Lehner brushless motor.

Afrter that, I campaigned to move F5D from the Electric Nats to the Power nats because the course was setup there and experienced helpers were on hand. We certainly started holding F5D events alongside F3D, which met with some resistance.

I moved to Canada in 1999 and did some F5D here, stirring up a bit of interest such that we got a Canadian team together for York 2004. We did badly (last three places) mainly due to lack of preparation but also because our models flew just fine in the dry air at the altitude here (3600ft) but didn't have enough power to handle wet air at sea level in England.

I think at least some of these photos were taken at Middle Wallop.

Anyway, here are a few pictures from 96/97. Don't remember all the names but I'm sure Mark and Darron can fill them in.
Last edited by DaveSawers; Mar 03, 2010 at 05:16 PM. Reason: More info on a couple of pictures
Mar 03, 2010, 04:22 PM
Registered User
And one more picture of older equipment...

Top to bottom:
Modern Hacker F5D motor and Castle controller
Lehner 1720 brushless motor with Knotronic controller
Lehner brushless controller - the Mark 1
Mar 03, 2010, 04:48 PM
Registered User
Last year I posted a pai of pics of the Hot Dog pylon racer from the 80's : https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...hlight=hot+dog

I must have some old "Ampere flyer" at home with more info from this time... and some old motors too :-)
Mar 03, 2010, 04:56 PM
Go on just 1 more beer then
Rob AR's Avatar
Thread OP

My evening has been made


Dave that picture of Barry could not be better, I hear a big cheer coming when that apears on the Screen as its Barry's club I am doing the first talk in at the end of the month.

Thank you so much.....

This infomation we have already is great so please keep it coming. Espeshally the early stuff.

Like Dave My first electric model was a F5D Brushless set up I flew only a few months before York when we flew in the open. Prior to that I had only flown Sport 40 which was my first power RC model as before that I flew F3J/B.

I therfore know nothing about F5D back in the Brushed days and hearing that F5D had 30 sub c cells back in the 90's makes me wish YouTube had been invented then so I could see one flying.

Cheers

Rob
Mar 03, 2010, 05:04 PM
Registered User
Send me your e-mail address if you want these in higher res.
Mar 03, 2010, 05:22 PM
Registered User
WimH's Avatar
The one you "can't remember" is probably a Freudenthaler/Aeronaut Fox:
Mar 03, 2010, 05:33 PM
f5b-uk
Mike Seale's Avatar
Not F5D, but in 1990/91 Stephen Mettam championed the Jeddermann (sp.) class of pylon racing in his new(ish) magazine, QFI. Seven cells, brushed motor and fly as many laps as possible in 4-minutes. Stephen and me prepared models for the inaugural competition at Goosedale. I used a foam/veneer wing from a club 20 models (forget the name) and balsa 'box' fuselage. His was lighter and faster than mine and he should have won but he left his tailplane at home so I walked away with the cup doing about 17/18 laps I think. This was back in the pre-internet days and there was no sharing of information and lack of interest meant that the following year the same few turned up (with the same models) and I won again. I realised that the F5B crowd were getting a lot more flying done and they had an organised league meaning regular meetings throughout the year instead of just one so I ditched the racing and went gliding instead. Perhaps there is an earlier history of electric pylon racing in the UK but I'm not aware of it. I still have the model and the trophies. You'd be amazed how fat the wing is compared to a modern F5D.

Mike
Mar 03, 2010, 05:34 PM
Go on just 1 more beer then
Rob AR's Avatar
Thread OP
There is a bit on info I just thought about that I cant find referance to.

The basic rule changes at each EWC.

I know in Romania 06 we have the 425g max pack weight and bigger models than 2004. and 2008 was the first time we used Lipo and those things to slow us down,

Can anyone remember the basic changes going back to the start?

Rob
Mar 03, 2010, 06:44 PM
Registered User
Rob as I recall the 1st F5D W/C was in Wangaratta Australia in 1994.
This was the 1st time brushless motor were used in F5B and only by the US.
F5D was all brushed motors eg Robbe 325/3 wind a plettenberg that I can't remember, all on 7 cells. I am pretty sure that Sanyo 1700 SCRC Nicad were the cell of the time. There was no need for the 7 cell weight limit at that time as these were about 57gm. the 2000mah and 2400 mah cells came later. I think the weight thing came in when they relaxed the cell count rule. I am stretching my memory here but i think the race times were around 86sec for the best. Ray Pike still has the result from that W/C.
Mar 03, 2010, 07:51 PM
Registered User
Darron's Avatar
I think the first set of rules were for 7 cell NiCd only with a battery weight limit 400g? I'm not sure. 1700SPSC ( I still have some! )
As the cells got better they increased in weight and soon it was a struggle to get the latest technology packs inside the weight limit and we started hearing rumours of cell etching etc at which point I think the weight was increased to 425g and the 7 cell limit removed in 1998 I think with NiMH added. But I can't be 100% sure. I do know that in that year the WCh was held in the old East Germany Neuhardenberg, and 2/3rds of the UK Team were the only ones to use 10 cell setups but most teams were using brushless now - Aveox and Lehner mainly. At this event I met a young German lad fresh out of University called Rainer Hacker. He was trying to sell me some home brew brushless motors

I have real photos and I know all the faces in Daves pictures, even the own design model Terry is launching which still exists!. As for results Dave... are you sure? All I remember is that you were the first to fly F5D at the Power Nats. Unfortunately you were the only one there....your competitors were not suitably qualified to fly at that event. But I really can't remember. I know it wasn't me!
Mar 03, 2010, 11:08 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darron
As for results Dave... are you sure? All I remember is that you were the first to fly F5D at the Power Nats. Unfortunately you were the only one there....your competitors were not suitably qualified to fly at that event. But I really can't remember. I know it wasn't me!
That was in '98. Bit of a waste of time turning up that year!


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