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Jan 30, 2010, 06:27 PM
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John Lueke's Avatar
Ed

It wasn't really a serious question. But unless you are standing in a thermal when you launch, something less than a vertical climb angle covers more sky and you could blunder into a thermal.
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Jan 30, 2010, 07:15 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Lueke
Ed

It wasn't really a serious question. But unless you are standing in a thermal when you launch, something less than a vertical climb angle covers more sky and you could blunder into a thermal.
The old Frickie "tell me where the thermal is before you launch and go there."

Its really cool to watch you rocket go VTO, but having some speed to allow you to go to where you think the thermals are (or at the very least, on a windy day as far upwind as you can see the plane)

Happy Landings,

Don
Jan 31, 2010, 10:36 AM
Registered User
ed...any links to altitude limiters? ken
Jan 31, 2010, 11:33 AM
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Ed Franz's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by ken troxell
ed...any links to altitude limiters? ken
The links are on the bottom of the Nats form, but here they are as well.

http://www.soaringcircuits.com/
http://www.rc-electronics.org/ The Basic 2 version
Feb 16, 2010, 09:03 AM
Dave Register
okiesoar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban
John,

I am using an AXI 2212-12 with a 9.5X5 prop and Neu XP 2S-1200 in an Electron F5J. I get around 3000 fpm climb rate measured with the Zlog. (On the test stand it performs better than the values that you get from Motocalc, etc.)...............
Don
Don,

The Scorpion S2212-1950 looks like a near match to the AXI 2212-12. Have you (or others on this discussion) used it?

- D

******

NATS motors: As has been noted, any motor/battery/plane can be used for the 'unofficial' limited launch height event on Sunday but Monday's event (I think) requires the ASA developed motor rules of a 28mm OD and a 16mm (length) flux ring. Based on some recent correspondence, the original intent of these specifications was to make it easy for the CD to verify compliance - either have a mfr's supplied motor drawing or have the motor available for measuring with a set of calipers. In practice, several motors have been used by the Albuquerque club that meet the specifications but no 'official' motor list was drawn up. I've been looking over motor specs and am trying to put together a short list of motors that are known to qualify (or for which drawings are available to confirm the dimensions). The flux ring length is the hardest item to sort out but I'm hoping to have some more information in a day or so.

As Jan (Dingo-II) very helpfully pointed out, the motor number designations don't always tell the story as different manufacturers use different notations. And different manufacturers use a different case length (the externally measured flux ring) for similarly sized magnets.

Generally motors that fit the specification will be in the 150W range (typically 900Kv to 1200Kv). There are a few rated at higher wattage (~ 200W) which are generally characterized by higher kv values (~ 1800+ range).

A preliminary list of commercial motors which appear to fit the specification is:

Hacker A20-20L
MotrolFly 2210 series
Axi 2212 series
E-Flite Park 400
Himax 2812 series
Scorpion S2212 series

DISCLAIMER - The data from some of these motors is inferred from available drawings but I have the MotorlFly and Himax motors in hand and have measured them. The Hacker is popular in Albuquerque and the HiMax motors have been confirmed by the distributor (Mpi). However, if someone has one of these motors and can put a caliper to it and report the flux ring length, it might be very helpful. It is the responsibility of the contestant to verify his/her motor is in compliance so please consider this list as advisory.

Trying to dig out a few more over the next few days......

- Dave R

PS - Altitude switches - at the time the list was drawn up I was not aware of a US supplier for the BASIC #2. Thank you to Ralph for clarifying that resource. I have flown both switches (CAM and Basic #2) and can share some data if that's appropriate.
Feb 16, 2010, 12:24 PM
Registered User
Ralph Weaver's Avatar
I use the Common Sense RC E5-L-13 motor because my LHS had one and it met the requirements.

Also, I normally stock a few Basic #2 altimeters at www.magtechinc.net, but if everyone tries to order a week before a big event there won't be enough. If you think you want one, order early.
Feb 16, 2010, 01:34 PM
Soaring Circuits
rcbrust's Avatar
Guys, I'll have loaner CAM height limiters available at the Nats for those who don't want to purchase them. If you would like to purchase one for practicing, I'm shooting for a release date of April 1st. I've had 10 CAM's out in the field since November and have been using the feedback I've gotten to tweak the firmware. It's very easy to use. Just plug it in between your ESC and Rx and fly. You can select between 50m, 100m and 200m cutoff heights right at the field. No computer is needed to program or use it.

The CAM will retail for $49 and it's designed, built, and supported in the USA. If you have any questions, please drop me an email or PM.

Thanks,
Randy
Feb 17, 2010, 10:20 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcbrust
Guys, I'll have loaner CAM height limiters available at the Nats for those who don't want to purchase them. If you would like to purchase one for practicing, I'm shooting for a release date of April 1st. I've had 10 CAM's out in the field since November and have been using the feedback I've gotten to tweak the firmware. It's very easy to use. Just plug it in between your ESC and Rx and fly. You can select between 50m, 100m and 200m cutoff heights right at the field. No computer is needed to program or use it.

The CAM will retail for $49 and it's designed, built, and supported in the USA. If you have any questions, please drop me an email or PM.

Thanks,
Randy
Randy,
It appears that the altitude limiter you are developing will be a winner.
Would it be possible to include a cutoff height of 150 meters?

Regards,
Bob Johnson
Feb 17, 2010, 10:40 AM
Dave Register
okiesoar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Weaver
I use the Common Sense RC E5-L-13 motor because my LHS had one and it met the requirements..........
Ralph,
You may want to check the flux ring length of the E5-L-13. I can't find a drawing but scaling of the photograph on the CS web site suggests it's in the 18mm range. A caliper along the silvery-metallic part of the body would provide a quick answer.
Thanks very much,
- Dave R
Feb 17, 2010, 11:19 AM
Soaring Circuits
rcbrust's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob J
It appears that the altitude limiter you are developing will be a winner.
Would it be possible to include a cutoff height of 150 meters?
Bob,

Yes, it would be easy to add a 150m setting, but I don't know if it's desirable. The feedback I've gotten from several contest directors is that they would like the cutoff height to be very obvious, i.e. they'd prefer it if a contestant is not able set their limiter to say 210m or 220m, for example, since it's hard to differentiate between those altitudes and 200m.

The 50m, 100m and 200m settings were chosen since they are very easy to tell apart. The 200m setting is standard, the 100m setting could be used for a 2m class, and the 50m setting was requested for a 1.5m or e-DLG class.

As we see how this first year goes, it's possible that I may end up adding a 150m setting. I'll have to see what kind of feedback I get once a large quantity of units are used in contest settings.

Randy
Feb 27, 2010, 11:27 PM
Dave Register
okiesoar's Avatar

First US Launch Height Limited Contest?


Took a drive out to Albuquerque this weekend for the ASA F5J contest which used the FXJ altitude/time switches. Club members used the Basic#2 and Buzz let me stick with my CAM so both units were 'contest' evaluated and seemed to work as intended.
Weather early in the morning in Moriarty was fantastic but after 2 rounds deteriorated with a cold front moving rapidly through the area bringing a sharp drop in temperature and high winds. The assembled brethren voted to retire to the local burger joint for lunch so no official scores are post-able but -

D*** that was fun!!!!!

A few impressions:
- Planes varied in size and power ranging from an e-conversion of a Gentle Lady up to an electric Supra.
- 2 classes were flown: 'Limited' (rougly 90" span and less) and 'Open'
- The Limited planes (6) included 3 Electrons, the aforementioned Gentle Lady, a SunDancer and an original design
- Open class planes (4) included a Supra, Silent Dream, Sky Sergio and original design
- As the wind came up, the larger, heavier ships appeared to have an advantage. Prior to the front arriving, the playing field was pretty level for all the planes.
- the MOM concept for this task REALLY works. It is really neat to see 5 oir 6 planes blast off together and top out at 200m in the same air and at the same time. And do it every time. This is what we can't reliably do with winch launches.
- the altitude switches really work and are incredibly easy to use once everyone gets 'calibrated' on installation and throttle management.

A comment about throttle management - the Basic2 suggests the pilot go to low throttle after the altitude/time switch kicks in as it can re-activate after 10 seconds. Pilots need to build that into their flight check list to shut off the throttle. The CAM shuts off and stays off so is a little kinder on a forgetful pilot. But it's still a good practice to shut down your throttle when the altitude or time is achieved.

I didn't get the low down on the power systems other than the 'Limited' class mostly used Hacker A20-20Ls with one MotrolFly 2215 in there (both motor types seemed quite comparable in performance). I'd guess that the AUW for most of these planes is in the 19oz to 22oz range. In this class, climb rates seemed to be in the 20s to 24s range on fresh 2S batteries. Most props seemed to be 14x8.

The power systems for the Open class ships varied with climb rates in the 10s to 18s range. AUWs seemed to be in the 70oz range. It was remarkable that the two different classes seemed to have comparable flight time capabilities - until the wind came up and the advantage moved to the heavy planes.

A few pictures attached. It was a GREAT trip and bodes well for further adventures with this new format. You shoulda been there!! Many thanks to ASA and Bruce and Buzz for putting on this event.

- Dave R
Feb 28, 2010, 04:24 PM
Registered User
Dave,

Nice report and great pictures. Too bad we could not have had another hour or two of nice weather.

Bruce T.
Mar 01, 2010, 02:59 AM
Registered User
Marko Gala's Avatar
Hi!
I am glad to see FXJ iniciative in US ... I created international group dedicated to FXJ, F5J pilots on the Facebook - you can add yourselves: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/...3164809&ref=ts
You can find there many interesting photos, start topic for disussion or upload your FXJ graphs...( http://www.rivamodels.sk/FXJthread/2010FXJ01_01.html )
Regards
Marko Gala
Mar 01, 2010, 10:03 AM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marko Gala
Hi!
I am glad to see FXJ iniciative in US ... I created international group dedicated to FXJ, F5J pilots on the Facebook - you can add yourselves: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/...3164809&ref=ts
You can find there many interesting photos, start topic for disussion or upload your FXJ graphs...( http://www.rivamodels.sk/FXJthread/2010FXJ01_01.html )
Regards
Marko Gala
I checked this out. It is going to be an interesting site.

Happy Landings,

Don


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