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Jan 07, 2010, 01:53 PM
Registered User
Discussion

The Conrad 450 ARF Quadrocopter


After seeing Importonís video on a different thread which he took using the Conrad 450 quadrocopter I decided to investigate further..


The quad is avialable from here http://www.conrad-international.com/,choose your country or the 'all other countries' for international english.
*note the german site has all the spares listed


Brief Specifications:

Motors:

* Operating voltage: 6 to 10 cells NiMH, 2 to 3 cell LiPo
* 22 turns
* 924 KV
* 104 mOhm internal resistance
* Maximum Efficiency 75%
* Maximum current 7 to 14 A
* Short-term maximum power (15 s) 19 A
* Motor Shaft ō 3 mm
* Motor Shaft Length 14.5 mm.
* Power consumption per engine approximately 3-9A
* Maximum power per engine. 14A
* Thrust per engine max. 700g with epp10x45 props



Escs:
2 pairs, 12c 15amp? ( need to confirm)


FCB
Atmega 128
3 x peizo gyros
1 x 3 axis accelerometer
board has expansion slots etc

The image in the attachments to this post (below) showing the connections on the FCB is from Gunter's Flying Robot Blog http://www.pccon.de/blog/?page_id=164

Frame
plastic 'space frame' centre foldable alloy arms, plastic motor mounts and body mounts.


RX
comes with a 35mhz ppm reciever


Optional Configuration Software
(the software manual is at the bottom of this post)



3 flight modes
beginner, expert or user configured via optional computer interface.

English manual here - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...4&d=1270284725

Whilst waiting for my quad to arrive I did a bit of reading, most info is in german ( including the user manual) It appears the V1 was buggy and this put people off however the v2 seems a much better craft.

Some setup help


Teaching the Quad what level is
User Bearded Flyer pointed out an error in the manual, this is the correct way
1) Turn on the transmitter
2) Set GAS to zero and all the other levers and trims to neutral
3) Set the Quadrotor on a horizontal, flat surface!
4) Connect the battery to the Quadrotor
5) The red LED on the Quadrocopter must be OFF and the green ON
6) Move throttle stick to full scale and full scale on the RIGHT

7) The green LED flashes to confirm the Quadrocopter and the neutral position is
stored
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Using a 2.4ghz radio with the Conrad
to use a 2.4ghz radio you need a ppm converter. I have tested 3. Quadroppm, RecEnc and Diydrones Paparazzi Encoder.
The RecEnc did not work, The Quadroppm works after a resistor is bypassed but is occasionally glitchy and requires some smd assembly.
The Diydrones encoder comes ready assembled with the latest firmware and best of all it works great.
To get power to the RX side from the ppm side bridge J1 with solder.
I bought it from here:
http://store.diydrones.com/ProductDe...ctCode=BR-PPME

I have attached an image below describing how to wire up the Paparazzi encoder. Some knowledge of soldering is assumed
Last edited by Joshbb; Nov 20, 2010 at 06:22 AM.
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Jan 07, 2010, 02:31 PM
Registered User

Running the Conrad with a 2.4ghz Spektrum radio


EDIT see post 1 or https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=179 for latest on a better ppm converter
From my attempted reading of the german forums its seemed like the conrad fcb would not arm when using a ppm converter such as RecEnc. I also tried with a recenc and a quadroppm ppm converter but with no luck.... at first.
I decided to run the RecEnc, the quadroppm and the original rx through my pc oscilloscope to see if I could see any differences. (*note the pc scope may not be entirely accurate but it does give comparitive data which is what i needed) I noticed the conrad rx output about 1.4v but the RecEnc output was only 1.07v. the quadroppm output was 1.2v on my scope. I thought the conrad may need to see a higher Ve in order to arm. The RecEnc is basicly just a chip and nothing else so increasing the output on that would maybe involve making a circuit or something... I noticed the quadroppm has a resistor on the signal output side so I decided to bypass it. Guess what it worked! Next step is further testing and flying in X mode via radio mixing
Conrad Quadrocopter 1st test using 2.4ghz Spektrum Radio (0 min 56 sec)


the ppm converter I used for this test is the quadroppm from mikrokopter.com

you have to solder the smd resistors and led on which is a bit tricky! For a 6 channel rx like mine you join channel 6,7 and 8 together on the board. For this to work with the Conrad quadrocopter you have to bypass R11 ( so the signal comes from the right pad of R11 when looking at the board as in this picture)
Last edited by Joshbb; Feb 01, 2010 at 07:57 AM.
Jan 07, 2010, 02:46 PM
It flew...nearly!
Impressive performance stability-wise. Wonder what payload it can carry...
matthew
Jan 07, 2010, 02:53 PM
Registered User
Hi I expect payload is comparable to that of a quad mikrokopter with similar size motors and props.

cheers

Josh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck!
Impressive performance stability-wise. Wonder what payload it can carry...
matthew
Jan 07, 2010, 04:09 PM
Registered User
that is impressive. I wonder if you could make a little 2.4 ghz tutorial.
as far as payload. I'm hauling a 3000 lipo, a 250g camera, and a 50g camera mount. can stay in the air for about 10min and is actually much more stable will all the weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck!
Impressive performance stability-wise. Wonder what payload it can carry...
matthew
Jan 07, 2010, 04:18 PM
Registered User
the recommended AUW is 1kg but that is because of the risk of the lightweight props which are like epp1045's breaking. I will test with apc1047's soon.

I have added details on the 2.4ghz in my post about it. I want to test a different ppm converter too as I dont really like the quadroppm board.
Quote:
Originally Posted by importon
that is impressive. I wonder if you could make a little 2.4 ghz tutorial.
as far as payload. I'm hauling a 3000 lipo, a 250g camera, and a 50g camera mount. can stay in the air for about 10min and is actually much more stable will all the weight.
Last edited by Joshbb; Jan 07, 2010 at 04:28 PM.
Jan 07, 2010, 05:33 PM
Registered User
wow. that's seems too advanced for me. theres alot of big word in there that I don't understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshbb
From my attempted reading of the german forums its seemed like the conrad fcb would not arm when using a ppm converter such as RecEnc. I also tried with a recenc and a quadroppm ppm converter but with no luck.... at first.
I decided to run the RecEnc, the quadroppm and the original rx through my pc oscilloscope to see if I could see any differences. (*note the pc scope may not be entirely accurate but it does give comparitive data which is what i needed) I noticed the conrad rx output about 1.4v but the RecEnc output was only 1.07v. the quadroppm output was 1.2v on my scope. I thought the conrad may need to see a higher Ve in order to arm. The RecEnc is basicly just a chip and nothing else so increasing the output on that would maybe involve making a circuit or something... I noticed the quadroppm has a resistor on the signal output side so I decided to bypass it. Guess what it worked! Next step is further testing and flying in X mode via radio mixing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEnApoUyQPw

This is the ppm converter I used for this test, its the quadroppm from mikrokopter.com

you have to solder the smd resistors and led on which is a bit tricky! For a 6 channel rx like mine you join channel 6,7 and 8 together on the board. For this to work with the Conrad quadrocopter you have to bypass R11 ( so the signal comes from the right pad of R11 when looking at the board as in this picture)
Jan 07, 2010, 05:41 PM
Registered User
lol,, you basicly have to buy a little converter board and solder some wires (and tiny little components in the case of the quadroppm) then connect it together and hope it works
Quote:
Originally Posted by importon
wow. that's seems too advanced for me. theres alot of big word in there that I don't understand.
Jan 07, 2010, 05:50 PM
Brushless
cdi3d's Avatar
Joshbb - What are we looking at for a turn key system that runs on a 2.4 ghz dx7 price wise? Comparable to a mikrocopter?

Mike
Jan 07, 2010, 06:07 PM
Registered User
Hi, the conrad comes complete less a radio transmitter and its whatever its costs to buy in your country, (it was £249 with free shipping in the UK)the same goes for buying a dx7 radio although If you have a 35mhz radio you dont need a radio just the crystals. the 2.4ghz ppm converter boards are about £20 from mikrokopter. hope that helps...

cheers
Josh
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdi3d
Joshbb - What are we looking at for a turn key system that runs on a 2.4 ghz dx7 price wise? Comparable to a mikrocopter?

Mike
Jan 07, 2010, 11:38 PM
Registered User
Agjake01's Avatar
Josh - Pretty cool quad! Does it have an accelerometer built in? What exactly is the PPM converter, is it specific to the Rx or Tx you are using? What do you think of this compared to George's QP board? Nice flying by the way! - Jake
Jan 07, 2010, 11:49 PM
Registered User
It does have an accelerometer. ppm is the language that the tx rx comunicate in. I think georges board will be far superior once it is mature. the conrad will almost certainly never have features like height hold, camera tilt roll compensation, and gps features.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agjake01
Josh - Pretty cool quad! Does it have an accelerometer built in? What exactly is the PPM converter, is it specific to the Rx or Tx you are using? What do you think of this compared to George's QP board? Nice flying by the way! - Jake
Jan 07, 2010, 11:55 PM
Registered User
Agjake01's Avatar
Thanks.. and I assume the DX6i does not recognize PPM thus requiring a converter? Think I'm going to take the plunge and build my first quad based on George's board. Either of you have any experience with the MikroKopter frame? Was thinking of using it...
Jan 08, 2010, 03:19 AM
Registered User
I am not so sure about that statement, The conrad has an expansion socket and unused serial buses and there is talk on the german forums of a gps height/ location hold addon this year. The 12c escs (as used on the mikrokopter) on the conrad also mean that they have a MUCH faster update rate than standard escs whichs equates to potentially better stability. the Conrad has very similar features to the Mikrokopter v1.3
Quote:
Originally Posted by importon
....... I think georges board will be far superior once it is mature. the conrad will almost certainly never have features like height hold, camera tilt roll compensation, and gps features.
Last edited by Joshbb; Jan 08, 2010 at 03:29 AM.
Jan 08, 2010, 04:19 AM
Registered User
this is why I'm glad we have our own thread now. can you give anymore info about this expansion? please keep us posted on this. it seems like you are far better at getting info on this than i am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshbb
I am not so sure about that statement, The conrad has an expansion socket and unused serial buses and there is talk on the german forums of a gps height/ location hold addon this year. The 12c escs (as used on the mikrokopter) on the conrad also mean that they have a MUCH faster update rate than standard escs whichs equates to potentially better stability. the Conrad has very similar features to the Mikrokopter v1.3


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