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View Poll Results: If you are reading this thread are you an IOM owner
Yes 26 49.06%
No 27 50.94%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Jan 12, 2014, 12:52 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfr02
http://www.housemartinsails.co.uk/sample-page/iom/
Full set, 135. Two sets, 270, maybe a bit of saving on postage.

Fairly hot news. Even on quite vintage radio control outfits, fully proportional control of the rudder channel has been available to those who realize that each stick has many intermediate points between center and full left/right. Depending on personal ability when controlling thumb movement, of course.
I am fairly sure that depowering a sail to initiate a turn will not speed the boat up - increasing power on a sail might, but if there is any scope for an increase in power on either, you were not making the best of what was there in the first place.
This proportional control of which you speak, is that like the stuff I use to control a 5 blade, flybar-less head 4 servo ccpm system on my 1/6th scale Hughes 500? The two channel Fleet yachtsman system I had in 1977 was proportional too. Thank you so much for the heads up, I wonder if I could use the 13 point servo curve to program a flattened exponential curve on the rudder to make the centre stick less sensitive?

I disagree that any more boats than already become put to one side in favour of the latest design would become obsolete if there were rule changes and I think of several designs that would become un-obsolete/ favoured again with a redesigned rig or control changes.
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Jan 12, 2014, 12:57 PM
Registered User
hiljoball's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Enigma
I'm about to build a new A rig and was wondering what the latest thinking is on sidestay location, height and front or side?

Edit: I use the French 11.1mm mast which is fairly bendy.
The recommendations for the Britpop and Cheinz is 467mm down from jib band (into the front face). The shrouds at 1055mm down with a spreader length of 54mm.The V8 is slightly higher at at 380 and 1020 respectively.

The French mast bends off in the gusts, depowering the main. Ian wrote that he found it losing too much drive and raised his to the above dimensions.

For prebend I am using 15mm deflection at the tip, with the bend extending 900mm into the spar.

I read a couple of reports of using a slider on the mast to lower the effective point of the shrouds (This was the kind of description that Bantock requested under the class rule that was declared legal).

John
Jan 12, 2014, 01:47 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiljoball

I read a couple of reports of using a slider on the mast to lower the effective point of the shrouds (This was the kind of description that Bantock requested under the class rule that was declared legal).

John
Thank you John. From the interpretation regarding a slider would you think that changing sidestays during an event would be legal?

This rule allows the location (position) to be changed at will (I think).

F.2.4 CONSTRUCTION
(b) The position of parts, and the length and tension of rigging, may be adjustable unless otherwise restricted.
Jan 12, 2014, 02:24 PM
Registered User
Looking to put a new fin on a project here. Any views ? Creed or hollom? There seems to be some real experts posting on here recently who will no doubt have a view !
Old Jan 12, 2014, 02:37 PM
john m taylor
A moderator felt this post violated the following rule: Off Topic Advertisement. It is temporarily hidden while john m taylor edits it.
Jan 12, 2014, 02:43 PM
Registered User
Shrouds for Kantuns are a matter for prevailing conditions: For turbulent conditions (A-rig) 465 mm from top mark. For stable conditions only 250 mm. Spreaders narrow, only 3 mm from straight line. Jib pivot point more foreward for turbulent conditions. You have to make a choice for your raceday...
The Mayman? Please ignore him!
Jan 12, 2014, 03:04 PM
Love RC Yachts!!!
Robert, if every one else is required to use a rudder to tack the boat, then there is no disadvantage if you have to a well. In the cut and thrust if racing I think you'll find that that you won't use the third sail function, being too occupied looking at the fleet, the wind, and calculating your tactics.....

And yes, there is fully programmable exponential on rudder function on today's radios, as well as dual rate.

As for different sail cuts for different venues, the fast guys use the same sails everywhere, and stick to tuning a rig they are familiar with. There is enough on he boats to concentrate on!
I believe that in a fleet of similar boats, its the rig setup and tune that makes the biggest difference to speed between them.

As for high end sails, 90% of sailmakers out there make a good product, and some are cheap, as low as 55-60 a suit, and postage cost isn't an issue either.

I respect your thoughts, but suggest that first you race and tune an IOM, and you'll find them good fun as they are!
Jan 12, 2014, 03:41 PM
Registered User
@RobertMay:

I am a bit wary about joining this conversation as there are a few stones being thrown about, however I might be able to contribute a bit of experience:


Firstly, the "third servo" conversation:

Let me say first and foremost that I do not own an IOM and I do not plan to as they are not raced in my area. However I have been sailing (and racing) an A Class for the last couple of years with some success. Readers may be aware that the A Class rules does not limit the number of servos allowed.

My A Class has two separate (Hitec) winches, one for each sail. It struck me some time back that having an adjustable slot might be a great idea, and after some messing about with the radio (using the "elevon" feature on a Turnigy T9X) I managed to achieve this so I could adjust the slot at any winch position using the left-right axis of the sailwinch stick. Looked great, easy to use, worked well....

The only problem - during racing, when the pressure is on and you are closed up in a fleet, the extra servo control is just a distraction. Without fail, every time I tried adjusting the slot, I lost ground to the competitor I was sailing against.

In the end, I gave up on the idea and reverted to the original setup.

I have also experimented with RC adjustable leach curve and RC adjustable topping lift with no discernible gain. Others in my club have used RC adjustable backstay with mixed results and all are presently using just two channels.

So in summary, for me at least, I know that the two channels is all I can manage to sail competitively. I find more value in getting the boat in the right place at the right time than making fine adjustments of the rig while sailing a metre away from another boat.

Maybe it is something to do with the skipper's ability to multitask or something....

Secondly:
I gather from some comments that your larger thrust here is raising the idea that the overall IOM design concept/rules may need to be revisited - perhaps there is a need for an "extended" IOM class - the IOM+ or such.... imagine IOMs with no limit on the number of servos, alternate rigs with the same max sail area (solid wings, gaff rigs - use you imagination) - the list goes on... how about it...? This might aid the tinkerers in the winter months
Last edited by mrpenguin; Jan 12, 2014 at 03:43 PM. Reason: Fix typos..
Jan 12, 2014, 03:57 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by JK43
Looking to put a new fin on a project here. Any views ? Creed or hollom? There seems to be some real experts posting on here recently who will no doubt have a view !
I've got a few messages suggesting Bantock. Are they better than the creed ones?
Jan 12, 2014, 04:49 PM
NORTHLAND NEW ZEALAND
D design's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpenguin
@RobertMay:

I am a bit wary about joining this conversation as there are a few stones being thrown about, however I might be able to contribute a bit of experience:


Firstly, the "third servo" conversation:

Let me say first and foremost that I do not own an IOM and I do not plan to as they are not raced in my area. However I have been sailing (and racing) an A Class for the last couple of years with some success. Readers may be aware that the A Class rules does not limit the number of servos allowed.

My A Class has two separate (Hitec) winches, one for each sail. It struck me some time back that having an adjustable slot might be a great idea, and after some messing about with the radio (using the "elevon" feature on a Turnigy T9X) I managed to achieve this so I could adjust the slot at any winch position using the left-right axis of the sailwinch stick. Looked great, easy to use, worked well....

The only problem - during racing, when the pressure is on and you are closed up in a fleet, the extra servo control is just a distraction. Without fail, every time I tried adjusting the slot, I lost ground to the competitor I was sailing against.

In the end, I gave up on the idea and reverted to the original setup.

I have also experimented with RC adjustable leach curve and RC adjustable topping lift with no discernible gain. Others in my club have used RC adjustable backstay with mixed results and all are presently using just two channels.

So in summary, for me at least, I know that the two channels is all I can manage to sail competitively. I find more value in getting the boat in the right place at the right time than making fine adjustments of the rig while sailing a metre away from another boat.

Maybe it is something to do with the skipper's ability to multitask or something....

Secondly:
I gather from some comments that your larger thrust here is raising the idea that the overall IOM design concept/rules may need to be revisited - perhaps there is a need for an "extended" IOM class - the IOM+ or such.... imagine IOMs with no limit on the number of servos, alternate rigs with the same max sail area (solid wings, gaff rigs - use you imagination) - the list goes on... how about it...? This might aid the tinkerers in the winter months
I think you hit the nail on the head
Jan 12, 2014, 04:56 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by john m taylor
To all skippers and enthusiasts,

My website has now been fully updated. Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

To view my site please refer to the following link:

http://www.taylormadeyachts.com
John I like your website alot. One question just how much wider
is the chardonnay compared to the shiraz. Thanks Fizzzy
Jan 12, 2014, 05:01 PM
Registered User
hiljoball's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Enigma
Thank you John. From the interpretation regarding a slider would you think that changing sidestays during an event would be legal?

This rule allows the location (position) to be changed at will (I think).

F.2.4 CONSTRUCTION
(b) The position of parts, and the length and tension of rigging, may be adjustable unless otherwise restricted.
Here is the link to the question and the ruling.
http://www.iomclass.org/doc-files/Te...2011-IOM-2.pdf

Now you are asking a different question that was not part of this request - ie - Can I swap out my shrouds for another shorter (or longer) set.

My opinion is 'no'. The rule allows you to adjust the length, but does not allow swapping of parts unless to repair a broken item - and the expectation is that it is of similar length/weight etc from the piece that broke.

But that is just my opinion - to be sure, you can submit a question to your National Rep (usually your Class Secretary), who can send it in to the IOMICA Technical Committee.

John
Jan 12, 2014, 05:14 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiljoball
Here is the link to the question and the ruling.
http://www.iomclass.org/doc-files/Te...2011-IOM-2.pdf

Now you are asking a different question that was not part of this request - ie - Can I swap out my shrouds for another shorter (or longer) set.

My opinion is 'no'. The rule allows you to adjust the length, but does not allow swapping of parts unless to repair a broken item - and the expectation is that it is of similar length/weight etc from the piece that broke.

But that is just my opinion - to be sure, you can submit a question to your National Rep (usually your Class Secretary), who can send it in to the IOMICA Technical Committee.

John
I had seen that interpretation before, this is the confusing part:

Answer to question C:
It is permitted to use alternative shroud attachment points during an event. IOM CR
F.3.3(a)(2) allows the use of shroud openings and IOM CR F.2.4(b) permits adjustments to position of parts.

So you can change the location, but like you said, can you change parts. Sounds like a good job for the Class Secretary to find out.
Old Jan 12, 2014, 06:17 PM
john m taylor
A moderator felt this post violated the following rule: Excessive Advertising (Spam). It is temporarily hidden while john m taylor edits it.
Jan 12, 2014, 10:02 PM
NORTHLAND NEW ZEALAND
D design's Avatar
John,

how many IOMs have you sold so far? Looks like you put a lot of work into your website, well done


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