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Dec 17, 2012, 11:15 PM
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8387mike's Avatar
Try here, they have their own dedicated lake and club house
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Dec 18, 2012, 02:39 AM
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KoneWone's Avatar
Originally Posted by D design
How often do top IOM sailors sail? How can you beat people that have been sailing rc for over 15 years?
Only quick and proven way to the top takes time with ... practice, practice and more practice !!
Dec 18, 2012, 05:37 AM
Registered User

boats and sails

We dont have the worlds most competitive fleet localy (Capetown, South Africa) and that could be because I have built most of them LOL, but there are few international boats like the Pikanto that can be used as a benchmark for each new design I build.

The only real way to test if a particular design is better is to let other people sail it and see if you now struggle to beat them. You'll know almost immediately after one or two races.

The quickest way to learn is to swap boats. We do that a lot locally and I have learnt a huge amount by trying to get other boats to perform. Each boat has its own character and you soon learn what the desirable traits are,.

We have a few boats with identical hulls, but different fins, and that makes a huge difference. One boat stalls easily, another sails like it's on rails. Unless you sailed
them yourself you might not realise where the problem lay.

I am rambling, but in short swap boats if you want to become a better sailor or improve on your own design.
Dec 18, 2012, 05:39 AM
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BAJAN SAIL 51's Avatar
here is one thing that i have learned over the years,it is important to help the other sailors at your lake to get better and faster by sharing what you have learned, they need to give you competition in order for you to get better,if you don't you may win every race at your lake but you will only be better than them ,also traveling to find new competition also works
Dec 18, 2012, 06:44 AM
D design's Avatar
Craig and Bajan, 100% correcto!
Dec 18, 2012, 06:56 AM
D design's Avatar
Daring ideas are like chessmen moved forward; they may be beaten, but they may start a winning game
Dec 18, 2012, 07:51 AM
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D Design, your rocket ship was off target, you will learn how to get leaves off your fin at that lake, you would learn how to sail hard and fair at Birkenhead.

We also, nearly always, have a little bit of bias on the start line that our full time starters, Jack and Ernie will remind us of.

There is also a great tank testing facility about 5 miles away at Liverpool University if you are that way inclined to go along the designing, testing, building of your home designed iom, failing that, just get a few photos of the BritPOP!.
Last edited by Graham J Elliott; Dec 18, 2012 at 07:56 AM.
Dec 18, 2012, 05:56 PM
D design's Avatar
Last edited by D design; Dec 18, 2012 at 06:20 PM.
Dec 18, 2012, 05:58 PM
D design's Avatar
Far to loyal to New Zealand Aotearoa to do that
Dec 19, 2012, 08:51 AM
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Dec 19, 2012, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by D design
How often do top IOM sailors sail? How can you beat people that have been sailing rc for over 15 years?
Not RC sailing but this guy seems to have figured out how to win at a very young age (yes I am a fan of his):

"James Spithill (born 28 June 1979) is an Australian yachtsman. He was born in Sydney.

After some junior match race titles, in 1998 he arrived third in the Sydney-Hobart and first in the Kenwood Cup.

He confirmed his ability by winning numerous races in the following years, including twice the Nations Cup[disambiguation needed] (2003 and 2004), and obtaining a second place in the 2003 Match Race World Championship. In 2005 he was Match Race World Champion. In 2010, as skipper and helmsman for BMW Oracle Racing, Spithill became the youngest ever winner of the America's Cup.

[edit]America's Cup

He debuted in the America's Cup in 2000 with Young Australia, showing his precocious talent despite leading an antiquated boat. At the age of 20, he was the youngest helmsman in the America's Cup.

In 2003 he led OneWorld in the America's Cup, reaching the semifinal of the Louis Vuitton Cup, where he was beaten by Oracle BMW Racing.

Spithill was next chosen by Francesco De Angelis, whom he had beaten in the 2003 Louis Vuitton quarter-finals, as his heir as helmsman of Luna Rossa Challenge in the 2007 America's Cup. Spithill was a mainstay of the team, which he led to the final of the Louis Vuitton Cup 2007 after beating one of the favourites, Oracle BMW Racing, 51 in the semifinals."
Dec 20, 2012, 10:53 AM
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B North's Avatar
How to beat a guy who has 15 years of experience?

I have had the privilege of sailing a time or two with a guy who has two silvers, one gold, a host of world championships, and wins in every class in which he has sailed. He didn't start sailing until well into high school. His first boat was a styrofoam boat of the type as given away as cigarette company promotions. He didn't come from money. He grew up in a decent sailing area, though not the best even in Texas.

He is an extremely bright guy and a heck of an all around athlete.

His burning desire was to win a gold medal. When he stopped growing in high school, the path he wanted -- to be a top basketball player -- was closed. At that point he chose sailing as his path to Olympic gold.

He was HORRIBLE in a Laser when he started. But he sailed every day for two years when he got to college. He was a three time All America at University of Texas, so he was beating people who had much, much more experience than he even then.

The guy raced every boat that he had access to -- J 24s, J 22s, Snipes, 470s, 420s, FDs, Shields, Vanguard 15s, Flying Scots -- if it floated and there was a race, he was there.

Okay, so this guys is truly a sailing genius, and I dare say no one on this board is in this guy's league, but there is still a lesson in how to beat the guy who has a lot more experience than you.

Sail as much as you can. When this guy practiced, it wasn't a pleasure sail. He had things to work on and he did so.

Sail against the best. This guy sought out the best competition. He sailed boats new to him so he could sail against the best. And when he got beat, it spurred him on; it didn't depress him.

Keep track of your mistakes. This guy remembered his mistakes and worked on correcting those and seeing how they might apply to his next race.

We all have a top level we can achieve given our brain's aptitude, and it varies by person. We all have other things going on in our lives than model sailing. But as my example shows, if improvement is your goal, it can be done. But one also has to be realistic. I am not going to beat Graham Elliott no matter how much I ramp up my program because there's a talent gap there. BUT I know that I can still improve from my current level with more, smarter sailing.

Finally, I will end this with an addage from my old daddy who told me "A man can have 15 years of experience, or he can have one year of experience 15 times over." My example person maximized his experience, but I know a lot of others who just do the same thing over and over. I fall into the latter category, and it's easy to do, and hard to correct!
Last edited by B North; Dec 20, 2012 at 11:09 AM.
Dec 21, 2012, 11:42 AM
David Cook Victoria, BC Canada
Brig/ D Design

I could not agree with Brig more about it is possible for a newbie to beat a fellow competitor who has much more experience. My fondest memories over my sailing career (36 years and counting) were beating the top dog at major events when I was the clear underdog.

Ive been fortunate to have some great coaching and advice from friends about focusing on the process, mental attitude and effort in relates to results out. I set one and after you get good at it, two specific process goals to focus on during a training session. If you review too much you lose focus. I keep a log book (buy Wet Notes) and record the conditions (wind strength, direction and pattern), sea state (rough, moderate, flat) and current. After a while you identify trends and the logbook becomes your playbook.

What is really awesome is when you can turn a weakness from a previous race into a strength.

Another wise sailor once told me you never learn it all and they day you think you have, you start slipping backwards.

D Design: You may be the underdog now but when you do beat the top dogs, it is much more satisfying (and it really ticks them off). The tougher the challenge - the more satisfaction. As one of my coaches taught me, Results are the outcome of Processes.

Good luck

Dec 23, 2012, 10:26 AM
Registered User

Building with foam

I've been putitng off starting building an IOM for nearly a year now, but I seem to have finally made time to get one started in the New Year. I am still trying to decide whether to make the boat in wood, or make a male plug in foam and glass over that. This will be a one off hull, I don't intend to make a female mould.
I could do with some advice on the foam idea assuming I decide to make the hull & deck in epoxy glass rather than a wood hull:
1. When making the plug, do you use thin plywood shadows and then infill with roughly cut out foam, and then cut / sand the foam,
Do you just glue card shadows to the foam, cut out foam ( I have 50mm extruded polyfoam already), glue together and shape. The main danger with this is that it would be easy to remove too much I guess, whereas with ply it might be easy to get hard spots.
Have you any other suggestions using foam.

2. I realise I would need to do some filling after the sanding, but do I need to glass, then more filling and fairing to stiffen it prior to making the hull, or can I get away with just using shrink wrap over the foam (or foam and ply) and then lay up the main hull?

Thanks in advance Simon
Dec 23, 2012, 06:50 PM
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A.B.'s Avatar
Simon, I used paper glues on to foam the cut foam rough, glued all foam together then sanded to the paper. After it was a smooth as possible I used drywall mud to fill voids then painted, fillled sanded, painted fillled sanded and painted till i was happy with finish, then used packing tape to cover. Epoxy does not stick to packing tape. Good luck, and there are a lot of great people on this site who will give great ideas. Happy holidays!!!

From cold Calgary Alberta

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