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Old Jan 05, 2010, 01:22 AM
8387mike is offline
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K4s,
You say it is a Tempest 2, is this what you would get if you ordered one from the website or would it be just a Tempest?

Mike
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Old Jan 05, 2010, 02:17 AM
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Mike,
I ordered this one as a TEMPEST 2 from Carl.
Its more than likely he would be able to produce a Tempest,however the 2 has some improvements in my opinion.These include a sunken track in the fore deck for Jib pivot allowing the jib boom to be set nearly on the deck.Also the winch,RX and battery pot are self contained under the hatch...keeps them out of any water that may find its way into the boat.
Carl is very approachable and happy to discuss options.
Old Jan 05, 2010, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpzy View Post
Not my boat. I was just the photgrapher. I was just amazed at the booms dragging in the water.
This boat actually sails well in light to medium wind. Only when it gets to almost b rig wind does it turn into a submarine.
Not your boat . In that case.... only time I've seen a boat sailing like this was when it was half full of water. Any chance this boat was flooded below deck? Especially since you say it normally sails OK with an 'A' rig.

L.
Old Jan 05, 2010, 02:25 AM
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Mike,

what made you decide on buying a Tempest 2? Good reviews, race results, price, colour? How much are you looking at paying all up to get one race ready? It's a Kiwi boat. What happened to Australian boats being the best? Now PChicken wins again. At least it's not a pommie design........

Larry
Old Jan 05, 2010, 03:28 AM
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Larry,
I know the Vapour is a good boat and there is a Tempest or two in Perth (I Know because one hit me last week) there seam to do very well, the Australian boat I would like to get is a Mad Max but the waiting times are over the top (one guy i know ordered one in February last year and still hasn't got it, i think, haven't spoke to him since middle of December).
The Tempest looks like a good option and what K4s mentioned above I may be sold, unless a near new Mad Max turns up.
Old Jan 05, 2010, 04:26 AM
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Now I really am confused, I thought you guys wanted bows that "cut through the water" Here is a perfect example of what is wrong with that "theory" , Without enough displacment up the front the bow is going to dip The lack of metacentric balance will cause a broach. Without correct sail size balance or proper sail control there is no other way of controlling that broach other than a fist full of rudder which just exacerbates the problems.

To clarify my definition of a broach, weather helm through to gunwales under; anything that can not be controlled by sail trimming or weight transfer.
Old Jan 05, 2010, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 8387mike View Post
Larry,
I know the Vapour is a good boat and there is a Tempest or two in Perth (I Know because one hit me last week) there seam to do very well, the Australian boat I would like to get is a Mad Max but the waiting times are over the top (one guy i know ordered one in February last year and still hasn't got it, i think, haven't spoke to him since middle of December).
The Tempest looks like a good option and what K4s mentioned above I may be sold, unless a near new Mad Max turns up.
If you have good idea of what you want to improve why not have a go at building your own boat? If you have got Surfboard carvers anywhere near you you will have all the materials readily available and a heap of advice, buy them some beers and they will probably do the carving and laying up for you. You could be sailing your own design in weeks. The satisfacition of doing it for yourself is a thousand times sweeter.
Old Jan 05, 2010, 06:37 AM
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Mike,

just had a quick look at the Tempest NZ website. Price of a new Tempest $1540. If that's NZ money means $AU1240 + $100 for insurance and postage. Waiting time of 4 to 6 weeks. MadMax price $AU1790. Big difference.
Then you need to add rigging, sails, fin, rudder, bulb and electrics etc. So still looking at around $2,400 to get an IOM that might win a race.
Cheap hobby, if you stick with one boat. (I just saw a 15' trailer sailor on ebay for $2000 o.n.o.)
I start painting my 2nd Noux IOM soon. Just finished making 'A' rig mast and booms tonite. Only need to cast bulb and then fit on/off switch to deck. Should have boat in water in another week. Then I start building the Maximuss Mk2. Already have parts for that build .
So many boats and no time to sail them. Racing doesn't start here till February .

Larry
Old Jan 05, 2010, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert May View Post
If you have good idea of what you want to improve why not have a go at building your own boat? If you have got Surfboard carvers anywhere near you you will have all the materials readily available and a heap of advice, buy them some beers and they will probably do the carving and laying up for you. You could be sailing your own design in weeks. The satisfacition of doing it for yourself is a thousand times sweeter.
Have you ever asked why conventional designs became conventional in the first place? The answer is very simple. They work.
Rather than try to re-write the rules for a world-wide "standard", why not look at a class that does allow for your ideas? Go marblehead or 10R, possibly R36R if the back of the car is a restriction. You can have as many controls as you can handle. You will find, however, that the winners in these classes, with very few exceptions, lean towards simplicity and "convention".
Old Jan 05, 2010, 07:31 AM
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Have you ever asked why conventional designs became conventional in the first place? The answer is very simple. They work.
Rather than try to re-write the rules for a world-wide "standard", why not look at a class that does allow for your ideas? Go marblehead or 10R, possibly R36R if the back of the car is a restriction. You can have as many controls as you can handle. You will find, however, that the winners in these classes, with very few exceptions, lean towards simplicity and "convention".
I think we moved away from why I don't sail IOM and won't quite a few posts ago. The post you have quoted has nothing to do with me wanting to change any rules so I struggle to follow why you have bothered to quote it.
Old Jan 05, 2010, 08:33 AM
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Larry and Robert,

Larry for you it's about building the boats, for me its about racing them, i would race wed, Thur, Sat and Sunday if I could, but I have a wife and 2 children under 2 so I need to work to support my family, I don't get time to build. I started a USOM when i was at looking at getting into racing then realised that I would not be able to race against anyone, then i started building the Vanquish its still sitting in the shed waiting for glassing, i don't get time.
I took up this sport because i have no time, last year i was racing S80's leaving at 11am and getting home at 6-7pm now i leave at 12:30 and get home at 4:30, I am still sailing and my wife doesn't complain that i don't spend enough time with the family.
Sorry for the sob story.
And as for the cost of a Tempest A$1400 roughly including bulb fin and rudder, all i need radio A$60 H/King, Rigging and Sails A and B $500 winch (think i will go RMG) $300 and my home made LiFePo packs $15 each.
All up lets say $2500 or I am hopping on a friends Mad Max he said he might sell me $3000 (fully set-up, tuned and proven winner), sell my boat $1000-$1200 out lay worse case $2000. People spend more than this on big tv's or computers.
Hope this makes sense
Mike
Old Jan 05, 2010, 10:54 AM
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Don't apologise Mike, I understand the pull between work, home and hobbies and have no beef with anyone spending their money on whatever they want. You have got the economics of the hobby for you sorted out and you just have to be patient before you get your hands on a new boat.

I understand the competive side of things too and there was a time where I was at the pond for every single hour it was open. One of the problems I can forsee and why I asked the question about having a go at designing your own boat is that there there are fewer and fewer people who have the skills to design their own boats.
Old Jan 05, 2010, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by larrykin View Post
Not your boat . In that case.... only time I've seen a boat sailing like this was when it was half full of water. Any chance this boat was flooded below deck? Especially since you say it normally sails OK with an 'A' rig.

L.
Larry she wasnt flooded. With the "A" rig it sails well in light to medium wind. I think a good choice for this boat would be to go to a "B" rig in medium to heavy wind. Not sure how much more weight the boat can lose.
In light to medium wind she is very stable and fast.
Old Jan 05, 2010, 01:39 PM
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I think we moved away from why I don't sail IOM and won't quite a few posts ago. The post you have quoted has nothing to do with me wanting to change any rules so I struggle to follow why you have bothered to quote it.
Sorry about that -quoted the wrong post, should have been the one above it -

Quote:
Now I really am confused, I thought you guys wanted bows that "cut through the water" Here is a perfect example of what is wrong with that "theory" , Without enough displacment up the front the bow is going to dip The lack of metacentric balance will cause a broach. Without correct sail size balance or proper sail control there is no other way of controlling that broach other than a fist full of rudder which just exacerbates the problems.

To clarify my definition of a broach, weather helm through to gunwales under; anything that can not be controlled by sail trimming or weight transfer.
which reads like a return to the subject.
Old Jan 05, 2010, 02:22 PM
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which reads like a return to the subject.
You are quite wrong then, if you had read it in the context of the reply to why whoevers boat Larry's or Gpzy's had its nose buried, like so many model yachts, I had taken the trouble to explain in fairly straightforward terms why it was happening. I even asked for a photo to show the back end of the boat before passing comment.

I think because I have passed comment which does not fit with some romantic idea that IOM is the B all and end all of model yachting anything I say is seen a slagging off the class.

Before you try drawing me back into discussion about the class rules take the trouble to read what I have typed in context. If you think what I have type is incorrect I am more than happy to discuss that particular point.

Do you want to tell me why my explanation of Weather helm, which slows a boat down, and exacerbates a broach or slam gybe is wrong? Maybe all the known rules of yacht design and sailing are different in the rosey world of IOM, I will sit back listen to what you have to say and look forward to learning something.


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