Originally Posted by kapteinkuk

I think I stop at 6 propellers

I think the hex or octo copters are ugly looking . I will stick with tricopter or quadcopter . Does a hex copter or octo really flight better? or is just that they can carry more load? If they do carry more load, I would assume they want to cary a camera. And if it's a camera with many motors, I wonder if vibration becomes an issue?

-Thanh

Originally Posted by thanhTran

I think the hex or octo copters are ugly looking . I will stick with tricopter or quadcopter . Does a hex copter or octo really flight better? or is just that they can carry more load? If they do carry more load, I would assume they want to cary a camera. And if it's a camera with many motors, I wonder if vibration becomes an issue?

-Thanh

An Octocopter after the Xaircraft X650 might be a nice looking and performing aircraft.

Originally Posted by Niall

An Octocopter after the Xaircraft X650 might be a nice looking and performing aircraft.

I agree. It looks so nice. I was thinking the octo would have all motors in one plane (kind of like the hex arangement)
thanks
thanh

Originally Posted by BloomingtonFPV

Is this change recommended for Kaptein's SMD version? Is this 68 Ohms? I'm planning a tricopter build (and, yes, a hexacopter- they are soooo cheap with this SMD board...).

Another big thanks to KK for doing such a great job with this thread.

Thanks

The SMD version uses 39 Ohm, but I am changing it to 68 Ohm for both designs. For those who already have build it with 39 Ohm it is only nessesary to change it if you experience suddenly increasing rotation speed with high stick deflections.

Originally Posted by Jakub J

ROLL gyro to 1 arm like previously?

J.

Yep, the roll gyro axis is aligned to arm 1 and 4.

Originally Posted by 420RcPilot

....back on topic:

Kaptein, I changed the R10 resistor to 68R, like you said.

And it completely did the trick - no more wanting to backflip. Thanks! I also could increase gain slightly, as you said...itīs fine now!

Tail: I still see a tendency that Yaw gyro is fighting yaw action form servo. It gets more evident with higher gain. When I set gain to have good lock on tail, it also means that yaw-rate gets slower...and I can see that the tail deflects less on full rudder input in flight - no matter what I set ATV to on TX.

Anyway, its pretty good now - but you talked about a software version where gain decreases with stick input. I am not sure, but I think something like that would be a good idea for tricopter Yaw input - when and if you make an update of tri software...

But I still cant belive I built this thing so cheap (used reclaimed gyros), and it put my tricopter completely "on rails".....am building Quad or hexa now - cant decide - might have to do both

I also think many tricopter fans are following this thread with great interest....I know a few whoīs been lingering....Bob! I sent that board directly to you! Let me know when it gets there.

Jim, great point to use y-connectors to make X8 or octo configuration....

Glad it worked out Can you measure the zero motion output of your gyros? I suspect the pitch one is a bit high.

The yaw gyro is supposed to fight the yaw servo. This is how rate dampening works I suggest the use of low yaw gain.

How fast piro rate do you need? How fast is it now? Do you have video?

Originally Posted by kapteinkuk

Glad it worked out Can you measure the zero motion output of your gyros? I suspect the pitch one is a bit high.

The yaw gyro is supposed to fight the yaw servo. This is how rate dampening works I suggest the use of low yaw gain.

How fast piro rate do you need? How fast is it now? Do you have video?

Iīll see if I can make that video with a tripod tomorrow, but it looks like a day that will drown completely in rain.....

When I set yaw gain for good tail hold (about 30 percent) - I get pirorates at about 3 s/360 degrees. With gain turned almost all the way down I see the 1 - 1,5 sec/360 degrees I am used to with a standard Esky rate gyro but tail overshoots a lot then and its not "locked" in flight.

I am now in between these two extremes and pirorate is 2- 2,5 seconds. I would like it to be "as fast as possible" without sacrificing the "locked" feeling of tail.

You are clearly the expert here.. it just seemed to me that a solution where yaw gain decreases with stick input for yaw, would allow for both a high piro-rate and good lock on tail. Isnīt that also the way an normal rate gyro works?

Zero outputs from Gyros are (measured between GND and output wires from gyro cube):

Roll: 1380 mV
Pitch: 1422 mV
Yaw: 1403 mV

(Pin21 is 1664 mV (was 1,46 V) after I put in 68R for R10)

So it looks like you are spot on again Should I do something about that?

Thanks for taking time...I know Iīm a PITA. I am gonna have to send you a goodwill-bottle of "baranduin" someday soon!

Originally Posted by bob.titus

what size and weight is you quad? I would think that the props you are using are too small. As posted here before, I would suggest you to use 1050 MaxxProp or APC1047 SF&SFP or GWS9050 (but that's not my my favorite and in general 2 blades props have better efficiency then 3 or 4 blades).

Cheers,
Bob

my quad all up weight is around 350gms including 1800mah lipo , where do i get 2 blade cw and ccw prop

Originally Posted by kapteinkuk

I think I stop at 6 propellers

First i thank Kapteinkuk for sharing his idea ,design ,code for the public..... all blessings and appreciation goes to kapteinkuk

and its Kaptein just a remainder ... avatar scorpion 2 rotor vtol

VTOL RC AVATAR SCORPION Prototype model (2 min 36 sec)

you said it is in your pipe

I tried ST gyro with Kaptein design and V4.1 code. It's interesting. It seems to be sensitive to the gain pot. With pitch & roll pots at 50%, it hunts all over the place. With gain pots < 50%, it can fly, but it's very twitchy, a little stick input would shoot the quad away (not like when it's running with teh ENC03 gyros). The way it flies is like it's not having enough gain set. But a little more gain makes it hunt. So I'm wondering if I can change something to make the pot less sensitive (i.e smaller value pots, or change some values in the code?)
I'm using the 1X outputs of the ST gyro. Maybe I will try the 4x outputs tomorrow. The 4x output has the same voltage as the 1X output when the gyro sits still.

@pug, do you see this kind of behavor when you tried out the St gyros?

Thanks

-Thanh

@thanhTran,

what is the lowpass
wired? 10K / 1ĩF ?

as here - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/atta...mentid=3072762


jürgen

Since i dont know much about props (ok, read nothing usefull)

i was wondering if there would be much difference between these 2 different sizes of props,

GWS HD9050 3 Blade Prop Counter Rotate (2pc)

GWS HD9050 3 Blade Prop (2pc pack)

and these,
GWS HD8040 3 Blade Prop Counter Rotate (2pc)


GWS HD8040 3 Blade Prop (2pc pack)

from my basic knowlage i think they are slightly smaller , but i have no idea how much this would effect things.

for reference i was looking to use the little TowerPro Brushless Outrunner 2410-09 13A / 104W
with the TURNIGY Plush 18amp Speed Controller



the only other thing i can say is i have heard that the 3 blade props are not as good but if i can use these i can get them all in one order from hobbyking.

anyone have any comments?

Originally Posted by Scorpia

Since i dont know much about props (ok, read nothing usefull)

i was wondering if there would be much difference between these 2 different sizes of props,

GWS HD9050 3 Blade Prop Counter Rotate (2pc)

GWS HD9050 3 Blade Prop (2pc pack)

and these,
GWS HD8040 3 Blade Prop Counter Rotate (2pc)


GWS HD8040 3 Blade Prop (2pc pack)

from my basic knowlage i think they are slightly smaller , but i have no idea how much this would effect things.

for reference i was looking to use the little TowerPro Brushless Outrunner 2410-09 13A / 104W
with the TURNIGY Plush 18amp Speed Controller



the only other thing i can say is i have heard that the 3 blade props are not as good but if i can use these i can get them all in one order from hobbyking.

anyone have any comments?

Props look OK....3-blade is not the best option for effifiency, but it will work. Follow Kapteins way of balancing them shown some pages back. I think you should go for 9050 with the 2409-10 motors. But other might disagree....

Props are coded like this: first two digits are prop diameter in inches, last two digits are prop pitch in inces. Meaning that a 8040 prop is 8.0 inches in diameter and has 4.0 inches pitch (it "screws" 4 inches forward with one full turn)

Motors look fine if you want cheap setup. Escīs can be these instead:

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...rogrammable%29

Get a programming card for those - it will make your life easier when setting up escīs:

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ogramming_Card

Another alternative ESC is the Mystery Blue series. Those should be very light, well made and able to handle very high update rates - according to my sources. I am still waiting for mine for Quadbuild, so I cant confirm personally yet- but I have it from a very reliable source.

An advantage is that they can provide 16 Khz motor PVM rate, and that should completely remove "pinging" sound from low KV motors.

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...&ParentCat=182

Alternative and better motors could be 20-22l Hacker style. Consensus seem to be that those are really good motors with lots of power. More expensive though...! But could prove worth it in the long run.

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...trunner_20-22L

Is there any news about those SMD boards?

Originally Posted by 420RcPilot

Props look OK....3-blade is not the best option for effifiency, but it will work. Follow Kapteins way of balancing them shown some pages back. I think you should go for 9050 with the 2409-10 motors. But other might disagree....

Motors look fine if you want cheap setup. Escīs can be these instead:

Hobbyking_SS_Series_18-20A_ESC

Get a programming card for those - TURNIGY_BESC_Programming_Card

Alternative and better motors could be 20-22l Hacker style.
hacker_Style_Brushless_Outrunner_20-22L

Is there any news about those SMD boards?

Firstly, the smd boards are in the post ( i did standard 10 day mail to save costs). im hoping they will arrive in the first couple of days of next week.

Looking at the ESC, i didnt think that the hobbyking ESC's worked well (too slow?) but if they are ok, i will grab some, probably the 25-30a version, just to give me some more overhead on motors for later for a few extra cents.

Also i looked at those motors and think they are better but my budget doesnt allow atm,

As for the props, i was going to get the 9050's but they are on backorder. so i might look at the 8050's if they will still be ok. but if the 9050's come back into stock then ill change them if i havnt ordered,

atm, im trying to get the cash aside to make the order.

My current estimate is i can make a quad for about $180ish delivered + frame costs. seems very nice to me

Originally Posted by Scorpia

Firstly, the smd boards are in the post ( i did standard 10 day mail to save costs). im hoping they will arrive in the first couple of days of next week.

Looking at the ESC, i didnt think that the hobbyking ESC's worked well (too slow?) but if they are ok, i will grab some, probably the 25-30a version, just to give me some more overhead on motors for later for a few extra cents.

Also i looked at those motors and think they are better but my budget doesnt allow atm,

As for the props, i was going to get the 9050's but they are on backorder. so i might look at the 8050's if they will still be ok. but if the 9050's come back into stock then ill change them if i havnt ordered,

atm, im trying to get the cash aside to make the order.

My current estimate is i can make a quad for about $180ish delivered + frame costs. seems very nice to me

You should be OK with HK SS esc. But the Turnigys are better build quality and gives higher peak amps - but both types have been used with succes by many builders. If you go for HK SS, get card programmable version.

Sounds good with the boards...keep us posted!

I am not to sure about the props. I have only used triblades for planes and FP heli tail.....