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Nov 04, 2009, 06:34 PM
David Eddy (Dave from CT)
Thread OP
Discussion

Bagging My First Wing


Looks like I will be bagging my first wing in the near future. My only experience so far is press-bagging tails.

Looking for input on the bagging materials. In particular I would like to know what folks are using for the mylars. Is this just a heavy plastic sheet or something more exotic? Source?

Also, I see paper towels mentioned on the Tabooish thread for a breather layer. Does this work ok or should I be looking elsewhere?

How important is it to go the kevlar route vs glass? I am not a particularly hard launcher but I want the wing to hold up. However, I don't want to rob a bank to get the materials. If it has to be kevlar what's a good source? I'm not planning to quit my day job so I wouldn't need a ton.

I see pultruded carbon rod mentioned for spar materials, 0.60". I know that I can get this easily vs other carbon forms. Pros and cons? Seems like the simplest route for a first timer.

Is the West system the way to go? I have used Zpoxy Finishing resin on my tails, no real problems.

Looking for comments! Thanks in advance for the input.

dave in ct
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Nov 04, 2009, 07:34 PM
Transplant Chey WY from Reno
Thermaln2's Avatar
Dave,

Welcome to the Dark Side!

A few comments to your questions, and they will vary from person to person.

The mylars are 0.010" - 0.014" in thickness, mainly the 0.014" mylars, available from a variety of sources shown on RCGroups. Just buy it.

Kevlar is hard to work with for the first time bagger, and is harder to cut unless you have the scissors etc that everyone talks about. My suggestion is to get Phil Barnes' DVD on bagging and he talks about how to sharpen scissors to cut kevlar. It is a good reference and Phil did a great job.

Use 0.060" protuded carbon rods from CST. It's perhaps the easiest to do, then try other things later.

I would recommend you first do some FG bagging because if you mess up with kevlar, you lost the $$ for the kevlar. FG is relatively cheap. Please note that if you are not a strong launcher, you can go with FG. I use FG on spyderfoam cores, and have tried kevlar on the same cores and there really is not too much difference, other than color!

I have used MGS epxoy, as it spreads and wets out well, and can be soaked up with towels.

I have not gone the towel route for breather cloth, rather I have gone to the local cheap fabric shop and gotten white batting. It is fairly cheap and works OK.

I don't use the nylon vacuum bagging tubes that you can buy, rather I use 4 mil plastic dropcloth from the local hardware store and Apex white paint chaulking to seal the top and bottom of the plastic sheets. This is relativley cheap and I normally throw it out when done. Many other builders do it different weays, so just read the wealth of info here on the exchange.

Again, welcome to the group.

Chris
Nov 04, 2009, 07:52 PM
Do it AGAIN! This time BETTER!
ThermalThief's Avatar
Dave,

Glass would be the best to start/practice with.

I buy my carbon rods from BP Hobbies as the price is really good.

Zpoxy will be OK but could end up being expensive and it yellows really bad when exposed to UV. I mostly use ProSet and have begun using the jgreer.com epoxy on a few projects.

Unlike Chris, I have had problems with the 4mil plastic. Some of it has micro holes which are a bother. I do use the 4mil as a carrier for my wings. I've always used papertowels for breather. Just spray a little 3m77 on the paper towel and stick it to the top and bottom flaps of the plastic carrier. Slip the wing between the top and bottom flaps and slide entire package into the bag.

Good luck with your project and let us know how it goes.

Ken
Nov 04, 2009, 07:56 PM
David Eddy (Dave from CT)
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermaln2

I would recommend you first do some FG bagging because if you mess up with kevlar, you lost the $$ for the kevlar. FG is relatively cheap. Please note that if you are not a strong launcher, you can go with FG.

Chris
What weight fg do you use? Is 1.5 oz appropriate for the overall field?

Dave
Nov 04, 2009, 09:41 PM
Pompano Hill Flyers
Radian's Avatar
Couple other "alternate" supply sources to consider...

I use raka epoxy for all my wing bagging now. (www.raka.com) I've been very happy with their slow set laminating epoxy.

I get my carbon rods from www.homefly.com. Quick delivery and excellent prices.

Radian
www.phflyers.com
Nov 05, 2009, 06:24 AM
when using fibreglass cloth be sure that you get balanced cloth or mirror the top to the bottom in the warp of the fabric otherwise you could get a warp from shrinkage .

I prefer two layers of .075 cloth rather than 1.5 because the lighter cloth is balanced


USE white board or wipe-on/wipe off poster board [the kind of stuff found on your fridge to write notes on] for your mylars [walmart has these] SL
Nov 05, 2009, 07:25 AM
David Eddy (Dave from CT)
Thread OP
Anyone out there have Phil Barnes DVD on bagging sitting around? I think it's gonna help to view that. Mark Stockton's posts on doing a Taboo is also great, esp with all the pix.

Thanks for all the input so far. Keep it coming.

Dave
Nov 05, 2009, 07:35 AM
David Eddy (Dave from CT)
Thread OP
When using fibreglass cloth be sure that you get balanced cloth or mirror the top to the bottom in the warp of the fabric otherwise you could get a warp from shrinkage.

Good point. I would tend to mirror all the patterns when I do this anyway but need to keep that particularly in mind.

I prefer two layers of .075 cloth rather than 1.5 because the lighter cloth is balanced

I would think it's more tricky to get the two layers in position, twice as much to handle. How does this differ from a single layer approach?

USE white board or wipe-on/wipe off poster board [the kind of stuff found on your fridge to write notes on] for your mylars

When you say 'use...wipe-off board for your mylars', do you mean for the working surface? Why do you recommend it? How large is the one you use?
Nov 05, 2009, 07:39 AM
David Eddy (Dave from CT)
Thread OP
...

I use raka epoxy for all my wing bagging now.

Radian

Which formulation do you use? They have a number of different formulations shown on their website.

Dave in CT
Nov 05, 2009, 07:58 AM
I lay the dry cloth on top of the whiteboard [waxed] then wet them out and trim .It really isnt much differant using two layers with this method but my reasoning is because 1.5 cloth is normally NOT a balanced cloth.

The lighter cloth is balanced.

I attached a video link .. watch a few videos to see the process of how the mylars[aka white board ]are used scroll down on the link to the videos


http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=
Nov 05, 2009, 08:08 AM
Pompano Hill Flyers
Radian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thistle2311
...

I use raka epoxy for all my wing bagging now.

Radian

Which formulation do you use? They have a number of different formulations shown on their website.

Dave in CT
Resin 127 hardener 606 (Slow)...

However, I live is sunny south Florida. My Garage rarely gets below 77 degrees (mostly in the 80's) AND I like lots of time to do my layup. I hate being rushed so I use the slow hardener. I also leave anything in the vacuum back for atleast 24 hours.

If you work in colder climates, or don't want to wait on your vacuum bagging then the slow 606 might be too slow for you.

Last time I checked they sold a "sample pack" and I'm sure if you call and talk to them, they can put together a small sample of the 127 and the various hardeners they sell for you to try.

Also, if you are like me and mix by weight, you will have to call them as all the mixing instructions provided with their products is by volume. They will be happy to tell you the mix ratios by weight. (Slightly different)

BTW... Their 5 minutes rapid stuff is REALLY fast. Very hard by 10 minutes. Great for that small epoxy job you want to do while building something. Installing servo trays, filleting pushrod tubes etc.

Radian
www.phflyers.com
Nov 05, 2009, 08:14 AM
Registered User
pyrsly's Avatar
Thaycraft sells 1.2 and 1.6 balanced FG (60x60). Oleg also have 1.6 fabric available.
Seba
Nov 05, 2009, 08:35 AM
Chuck 'Em and Chase 'Em
Fly2High's Avatar
You can use spray glue (Super 77) to adhere two layers of 0.75 oz glas together and use it as if it was one cloth.

Look up how to make a composite fabric and Phil Barnes. he has described the process in his DVD and here on RCGroups.

Basically, barely mist a 2 equal sized mylars with the spray glue. From one edge lay it down onto the glass, glue side down. Cut excess off mylars. Now, spray a little heavier one of the glass on the mylars. Again, starting from one edge, lay the glass down onto the other glass on the other mylar. Let set. Now peel one of the maylars off.

I have done the same with wax paper and simply left the paper attached. Makes it much easier to cut since I do not remove the wax paper until after my shape is cut. I then put some epoxy down and then lay the fabric/wax paper glass side down onto the epoxy. Often, either wetting it or the hydrophilic attraction or something causes it to come off a little easier almost like a decal. sort of.

Try it, it is not that hard to do.

Frank
Nov 05, 2009, 09:15 AM
David Eddy (Dave from CT)
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrsly
Thaycraft sells 1.2 and 1.6 balanced FG (60x60). Oleg also have 1.6 fabric available.
Seba
Looked at the Thayercraft site and it appears the minimum order is 50 yds. Too much for me at this point.

Any other sources? You mentioned Oleg, may PM him.

Dave in CT
Nov 05, 2009, 10:20 AM
Make Flying Fun
Ah, just call them, they'll sell you some! Tell them RCgroups referred you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thistle2311
Looked at the Thayercraft site and it appears the minimum order is 50 yds. Too much for me at this point.

Any other sources? You mentioned Oleg, may PM him.

Dave in CT


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