Yet another AP platform..."DOUBLE EXPOSURE" - RC Groups
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Oct 27, 2009, 10:33 PM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
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Yet another AP platform..."DOUBLE EXPOSURE"

Well, after a long thought process I decided to tackle the issue of prop clearance, it occured to me that if we split the wattage/weight of the larger motors and move two motors off the center of the plane. This would allow for all kinds of options for camera mounting This platform uses two AXI 2212-34 motors. I tried to equal the power of the Passive with the AXI 2814-20. I was a bit skeptical that two 10 amp motors could give me the thrust I needed but I was pleasantly surprised! Great power light weight and super cool sound.

The other interesting thing I discovered is that by mounting the motors in the wing, this seems to isolate the vibration from the fuse. I mounted up a Canon HF-100 with nasty sensitive OIS and I did not see any vibes until over 3/4 throttle. On my other birds I saw vibration immediately. This I will be testing further.

The Maiden flight had a 7 oz ballast using the forward dowel location and forward pack location. The second flight had the 17oz Samsung onboard and the pack at the rear location. This thing can probably be setup to fly a 4 oz camera with out adding non functional weight

I designed the front slope at 15 deg so the small Flip style camcorders can be rubberbanded to the fuse by using the wing dowels. This works very slick. I have been testing the new Kodak Zi8 lately and I must say I am impressed. I have been comparing 1080p clips with my big Samsung and honestly the little $150.00 Kodak is doing quite well. I have not had a chance to fly the Kodak yet. I have had the plane up and it is a joy to fly. I have a maiden video coming soon. I did fly the Big Samsung HMX-20 on the same day but the wind was pretty bouncy and the footage is not worthy of watching. Anyway... here are some specs and pics of my latest project.

WS: 80 in
Fuse: 2" beaded foam with 2" 1/64 ply spine down the entire bottom.
AUW without camera 37.9 oz
(2) AXI 2212-34's
(2) PH-25 ESC
Lipo: TP 3s 1350 v2

Note: twins are very reliable, they do need a few special needs. Quality ESC's as matched as possible. CC has a PDF that gives the settings. They are very straight forward and work extremely well. Quality motors are also reccommended as the higher end motors tend to have closely matched kv ratings.


(Maiden Video) :

Last edited by power; Oct 28, 2009 at 09:27 PM.
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Oct 27, 2009, 10:36 PM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
Here is a teaser until I get the video up...

I really like this shot.
Oct 27, 2009, 10:56 PM
Vintauri's Avatar
Very cool Mike. Have you been up to the new school they are building on the south east side of town? It would be cool to see some shots of that as they work on it.

Oct 27, 2009, 11:18 PM
Dang the ideas running around in that head of yours are amazing. Another work of art. I bet the 2 motors sound cool. Good part is if one motor dies the other should give you enough to get home....right. Are you going to test by stopping a motor in mid flight. That way you know it is a fail safe. Of course you wait till you've flown it awhile right.
Oct 27, 2009, 11:26 PM
Registered User
Nice Mike! Its been really cool to see the design evolution since the "Beast". This looks like a winner.

Rob D.
Oct 27, 2009, 11:51 PM
cdi3d's Avatar
This is so cool - Great job Mike! I really need Hobby Lobby to have a sale on AXI motors!!!!!!!!!

Oct 28, 2009, 01:04 AM
Fly Big, Low and Slow....
Alpina540's Avatar
Awesome work! I like the twin motors but I dislike the added cost.

How much shorter(vertically) is the fuse compared to say the Solution that has to be taller to clear the lens of the camera?

Do the motors make a loud resonating sound mounted in the wing?

Looks very sharp!

Last edited by Alpina540; Oct 28, 2009 at 10:23 AM.
Oct 28, 2009, 01:42 AM
Registered User
What is the purpose of all those holes in the fuse? Weight reduction? Handy places to put things like batteries, rx, etc. providing mulitple options for balancing? All of the above? I think the extra wind drag that those holes create will far outweigh any benefits from weight redux.

Remind me again why you don't like pusher setups? Everybody I know who is using dual motors also has ailerons which helps in case of one motor/esc failure.

Just my .02 - worth about what you paid for it!

Good luck with your newest design...
Oct 28, 2009, 06:33 AM
Worn-out the seat of my pants
Lomcevac's Avatar
Originally Posted by soft2
Everybody I know who is using dual motors also has ailerons which helps in case of one motor/esc failure.
Ooh that should spark a debate! Yaw is your enemy in an asymmetric situation, not roll. Sure you also experience roll but only as the secondary effect of yaw.

Lovely work Mike
Oct 28, 2009, 07:42 AM
Registered User
Soft- Mike's designs are intended to fly slooow. Drag from the holes is either negligible or maybe even desired!

Rob D.
Oct 28, 2009, 08:25 AM
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cvandenb's Avatar
Awesome Mike !! What an amazing looking plane !! Just brilliant.

Gonna have to build one of these !

Great Work !
Oct 28, 2009, 08:36 AM
Registered User
Awesome design. I like the idea of the vibration absorbed my the wings.
I may have to buy another wing for my UL and mount twins on it.
Oct 28, 2009, 10:17 AM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
Thanks for the comments guys


The reason for the holes is in fact everything you stated. Mostly weight. You would be surprised as to how much weight is reduced with the holes. This becomes very effective at the tail when C.G. is the topic. I am a bit radical about keeping my planes light as well as strong. This one covers both. The 2" beaded foam is extremely stiff with the ply spine.

I do not like pushers for two reasons. One is that it requires longer motor leads adding unwanted weight and obtaining C.G. is always a pain. They also create a ton of noise as most applications the prop has to bite dead air from the fuse or other parts of the aircraft. This reduces efficiency.

nocontrol1, pretty much nailed it on the drag. With "typical" airframes we are concerned with reducing drag for flight. With AP platforms if you can get good flight characteristics while adding drag this is a win win. I like slow flight and this plane does this well....

Wait and watch the video and you will see what I mean, it is a pussycat with plenty of power. it also can cruise at less than 1/3 throttle with the wing loading this low.

Oct 28, 2009, 10:24 AM
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quailbird's Avatar
Great job Mike! Looking forward to seeing the video! You always do such nice work!
Oct 28, 2009, 10:25 AM
Registered User
ekees's Avatar
Sweet design Mike. I like the inclusion of the Flip style camcorder mount. I have a Kodak Zi6. It takes great video (60fps 720p) for an $80 referb camera. Can you turn off the IS on the Zi8?

Where does this design fit in your fleet? Could you please give as a brief description of your top 5 or 6 planes? e.g. Design goals, flight characteristics, overall pro and con of each design.

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