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Oct 02, 2009, 08:40 PM
wormburner
Thread OP
Data

PZ BF-109G possible quirks.


now im not trying to play chicken little and piss on people cherrios and i really like the bf-109g, but the p-51bl had a couple issues that eventually came to light, so this thread just noting possible 109 quirks and things to be wary of.

3 of us have broken the 109 on the left wing in pretty much the same spot, right where the aileron servo pocket makes a line to where the aileron would be cut, if flaps were to be installed.

im not saying this is endemic, but i know my crash wasnt all that bad and ive done far worse with the pz f4u and p51, with them emerging unscathed, so it might be worth keeping an eye on.

with all the maidens coming up, all im saying is you might want to keep an eye on your left wing, where the servo pocket is located, coincidentally, also right where the wing reinforcement ends.

oh yeah, the grub screw that keeps the tail wheel from rotating freely, that thread pocket has stripped out on mine, with almost no torque applied trying to REMOVE the screw, not tighten it.

blah blah blah, green giant.

- broken left wings at the aileron servo pocket: 3

- tailwheel issues: 2

- awesomeness: 9^9^9
Last edited by grimace308; Oct 02, 2009 at 11:45 PM.
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Oct 02, 2009, 10:55 PM
Gravity's a harsh Mistress....
southernmd_man's Avatar
Well, anytime you have a "hole" or score mark in something solid, it's a weak spot, and were a break will happen, one of the down sides to molding in scale details. Even the Corsair wing will break easy on the panel lines molded into it. If you want scale, it's something you learn to live with.
Oct 02, 2009, 11:17 PM
wormburner
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernmd_man
Well, anytime you have a "hole" or score mark in something solid, it's a weak spot, and were a break will happen, one of the down sides to molding in scale details. Even the Corsair wing will break easy on the panel lines molded into it. If you want scale, it's something you learn to live with.
i understand that completely, but do you not find it odd that as badly as weve beaten the f4u and p51, that there werent more broken wings, but within a couple days of release, three bf109g have broken their left wings at the exact same spot?

like i said, im trying to gather information and maybe plot trends, more than running around with my hair on fire.
Oct 02, 2009, 11:32 PM
Long live the Nuge!!!
skywarp1's Avatar
Does the wing not have a spar of any kind then?

I just looked at TLMARK's crash and it doesn't look like there is a spar. That break looks about mid wing.
Oct 03, 2009, 12:16 AM
Lou
Lou
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace308
i understand that completely, but do you not find it odd that as badly as weve beaten the f4u and p51, that there werent more broken wings, but within a couple days of release, three bf109g have broken their left wings at the exact same spot?

like i said, im trying to gather information and maybe plot trends, more than running around with my hair on fire.
You should then post what led to each structural failure and when possible, pictures. As I recall, one was a stall from 30 feet. Defintly not 3 mistakes high.

The F4u does not have the sterling record that you believe. A good number of them have bought the farm and had to be replace. Sometimes its the speed, the distance to impact, the position of the plane at inpact, etc.

I can't wait for the speed nuts to put power 25 motors and 4s lipos in their plane and, then wonder why the wings folded.

Be glad that this 109 is not a balsa build.
Oct 03, 2009, 12:35 AM
wormburner
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comm69
You should then post what led to each structural failure and when possible, pictures. As I recall, one was a stall from 30 feet. Defintly not 3 mistakes high.

The F4u does not have the sterling record that you believe. A good number of them have bought the farm and had to be replace. Sometimes its the speed, the distance to impact, the position of the plane at inpact, etc.

I can't wait for the speed nuts to put power 25 motors and 4s lipos in their plane and, then wonder why the wings folded.

Be glad that this 109 is not a balsa build.
good point about more info, i have it in my records. i figure the boards just needs a tally.

ive seen a couple wings fold and ive glued more than my fair share of corsair wings back together. ive destroyed my fair share of corsairs, so im not claiming the corsairs are indestructible. i have a couple mangled corsair fuses sitting over in the corner and a badly glassed wing that laughs at me.

we all know the corsair is prone to cracking where the wing meets the center rounded part. we know that the wings will fold unless we reinforce them for our high speed hijinks. we know that the wing to fuse mounting system is a little wonky and needs help once and a while.
we know the mustard elevator is a bit flimsy and needs reinforcing...many of us reinforce the rudder.

im not calling for a recall. im not screaming HH name at the top of my lungs, as i hurl obscenities skyward. im trying to gather information about possible areas that need more attention and letting people know about what quirks, rcgroups finds in the brand spanking new bf109g, during their flights. are we tracking, squirrel?

i just slapped on a motor capable of up to 850w and i have 3000mah 4s lipos coming in the mail...i also have 3 rolls of carbonfiber tape coming too.

btw, im sick and i quit smoking a couple days ago, so bear with me.
Oct 03, 2009, 12:46 AM
Lou
Lou
Registered User
I think I am getting over the chicken liver flu. Had it since last wednesday. Sucks. All respiratory. Gawd, I am tired of coughing!

I quit smoking about 8 years ago. Glad I did, other than the fact I am now a fat healther me.

I chewed a lot of gum to releave the mental tension. The need for nicotine was gone after a few days, however, the mental need lasted quite some time. Gum and vodka saved me.
Oct 03, 2009, 09:32 AM
Gravity's a harsh Mistress....
southernmd_man's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skywarp1
Does the wing not have a spar of any kind then?

I just looked at TLMARK's crash and it doesn't look like there is a spar. That break looks about mid wing.
They've all have spars, usually under the tape in front of the servo wire channel. If they didn't, the wing would fold in a gentle turn with all that weight in the center. Someone here on groups got a factory flub Corsair without a spar, and were taping the maiden, first gentle turn, and the wing snapped....I didn't think foam could make such a loud sound.
Oct 03, 2009, 09:56 AM
Long live the Nuge!!!
skywarp1's Avatar
Makes sense. Looking at one up close now, I see why the wings would break at that point, not only is there a servo pocket, but a deep panel line on the top and bottom of the wing at that point.
Oct 03, 2009, 10:00 AM
Lou
Lou
Registered User
I suppose that small carbon rod can be pushed throug the foam, from the wingtip to help strengthen this area.

Maybe the same for the tail section. Start at the end of the fuselage and push small diameter CF rod towards the nose of plane.
Oct 03, 2009, 10:34 PM
Actual Model Aviator.
pitviper51's Avatar
on the note above, it would be easier to cut a slice deep enough for a flat carbon stick to set vertical the length of the wing top and bottom,, this is good for those wnating to repaint, once the stick is in CA it and the wing will be much stiffer. In the process of replacing my bad servo in the wing I noticed a hard stick of some kind going from the center tot he flap servo pocket.. its a stiffener of some kind.

the other concern i have is the friction on the tail linkages, the servo for the elevator whins alot at neutrel and you can hear the rods rubbing in the tail.. this will be an easy fix witha sleeved plastic rod or jsut open the exits a bit. its a simple foam plane what more can we ask for.. and the scael details are a bonus once you paint it
mike
Oct 04, 2009, 02:42 AM
Registered User
IH8VTEC's Avatar
I love my 109 but I can't say the same for the gear doors. They look awesome but I noticed they twist in flight in some of the photos. Mine isn't the only one, I see it in others pics. I'm going to take them off tomorrow and see if they make a difference. I'm sure they do.
Oct 04, 2009, 05:09 AM
Wilde Sau
Beltpilot's Avatar
Hi,

as I told in the other Bf109G thread, my bird crashed after a tip stall. Yes, the one out of about 30 feet

The fuse broke right at the spot where the two bumps of the hood fit in the two notches on either left and right side of the hull.
The crack went down and forward a bit and went through the front end of the wing slot. The foam at this very part of the fuse, which actually is the transition from main part to nose, has a small cross section.
Look at TLMARK's crash pictures, I got pretty much the exact same rupture there. Still the rest of my plane remained undamaged with which I was very pleased.

There is a spar in the wing, but it ends at the aileron servos. You will see it when removing the tape to do the flap mod.

So my two points in this are:
1.) It tends to loose its nose when crashed. I just mention that because you wouldn't see that hapeen on the corsair, where you just had to replace the hood, which is not a structually necessary part and therefore is not as bad. I don't have experience with the Gunfighter, which should have the same issue as the 109 as it is similarly constructed.
2.) When flown slow, it tends to tip stall to the left. But still, this needs to be proven. Might be I just caught a windgust or the gear doors did their part on my crash, too. As soon as I am back in the air I will test slowflight again, but this time I'll start at >100feet. Try that with the corsair, you won't suceed getting her in a tip stall.
If this tip stall problem proves to be one, I might be modifying the wing with aerodynamical aids to prevent tip stalls like breakers on the leading edge of the inner wing for example.

But first I gotta see for that motor on my 109, might be I bent the shaft on my crash

Greetz

P.S.: Of course don't forget that one general problem on ZFoam/EPO: it compresses somewhat when crashed and changes its shape, sometimes making it hard to repair. For example on my 109 it was easy to glue the fuse back together, however the compression left a little less space than before and the hatch now hasquite a tight fit and leaves a little gap in between the fuse and the hatch
Oct 04, 2009, 06:44 AM
Account closed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comm69
I can't wait for the speed nuts to put power 25 motors and 4s lipos in their plane and, then wonder why the wings folded.

Be glad that this 109 is not a balsa build.
You made me laugh very hard!!!!

It is incredible how many will do just that!

I took out the popcorn and just waiting to see the Videos and Carnage pictures!
Oct 04, 2009, 07:24 AM
Registered User
My tailwheel came from the factory so loose it just wobbles around in a 360 spin. Other than that I've smacked into the ground face first a bajillion times and only damaged the top of the rudder which is now all bent and deformed.


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