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Apr 14, 2018, 09:05 PM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbo383
Now now Jack, don't get jealous just because he thought of it first.
I was just trying to express a little humor about the effort that has gone in to making foam an alternative using balsa. I still have a fir amount of balsa in my material storage racks in the basement but there is not a lot of it if you compare it to the amount of foam...

I loved balsa in it's day, now I like foam more... But that red wing is a beautiful build for sure! I think it deserves a better name...

To the brain locked Clarke Y/other airfoil arguers that insist that the KF wings are a high drag wing, I would suggest that they build a KFm4 wing with thinner foams/lower steps and compare the power requirements an performance between that and the more rounded airfoils and the KFm4. Surely a thin foam KFm4 will be, at a minimum, competitive if not superior!

Jack
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Apr 14, 2018, 09:24 PM
I Look, Listen, and Learn
Timbo383's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes
I was just trying to express a little humor
As was I.
Apr 14, 2018, 10:00 PM
Arizona Rim Country
how to convert the micron thickness of this laminate to US " mils "
Apr 14, 2018, 10:22 PM
Build straight - Fly twisty
Whiskers's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcaffeldt
how to convert the micron thickness of this laminate to US " mils "
http://www.alcula.com/conversion/length/micron-to-mil/
Apr 15, 2018, 12:29 AM
Arizona Rim Country
woo hoo ! Thanks !
Apr 15, 2018, 04:36 AM
Registered User
davereap's Avatar
all done...a Quasar KFm4 at 26" span...
motor a QX2207.... potential 29oz thrust at 12A
https://www.banggood.com/QX-Motor-22...1686150201505T
18A ESC.. 3x hxt500 servos.. orange RX.. 450 3s lipo.. 8x4 prop..
AUW at 10.8oz.. 3.27ozsqft loading.. better than 2:1 thrust to weight..

Setting up the model Ive found the HXT500 size servos I have are crap....they are noisy and jerky.. I more often used sg50 's those were not bad.. lately for indoor flying I am using tgy1440a 4.4gm.. cheapest of the lot they are smooth and work lovely, plenty strong enough for me on the indoor size models..
So no more hxt for me...
Last edited by davereap; Apr 15, 2018 at 05:55 AM.
Apr 15, 2018, 08:46 AM
Reap the wild wind
headlessagain's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes
I was just trying to express a little humor about the effort that has gone in to making foam an alternative using balsa. I still have a fir amount of balsa in my material storage racks in the basement but there is not a lot of it if you compare it to the amount of foam...

I loved balsa in it's day, now I like foam more... But that red wing is a beautiful build for sure! I think it deserves a better name...

To the brain locked Clarke Y/other airfoil arguers that insist that the KF wings are a high drag wing, I would suggest that they build a KFm4 wing with thinner foams/lower steps and compare the power requirements an performance between that and the more rounded airfoils and the KFm4. Surely a thin foam KFm4 will be, at a minimum, competitive if not superior!

Jack
I always considered that my scratch built KFm-4 Mini Wing was faster and more agile than the equivalent sized HK Bonsai when using exactly the same components
Andy
Apr 15, 2018, 09:14 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
all done...a Quasar KFm4 at 26" span...
motor a QX2207.... potential 29oz thrust at 12A
https://www.banggood.com/QX-Motor-22...1686150201505T
18A ESC.. 3x hxt500 servos.. orange RX.. 450 3s lipo.. 8x4 prop..
AUW at 10.8oz.. 3.27ozsqft loading.. better than 2:1 thrust to weight..

Setting up the model Ive found the HXT500 size servos I have are crap....they are noisy and jerky.. I more often used sg50 's those were not bad.. lately for indoor flying I am using tgy1440a 4.4gm.. cheapest of the lot they are smooth and work lovely, plenty strong enough for me on the indoor size models..
So no more hxt for me...
what are the throw settings I always get them wrong on a flying wing since the weathers bad I would like to build one
Apr 15, 2018, 10:12 AM
flyin' fool
goldguy's Avatar
KFm4 in action .........................
Der Trottel fliegt überall (2 min 7 sec)


I built a Trottel and it's one of the very best small aerobatic flying machines since airfoils were invented.
Apr 15, 2018, 07:58 PM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Have not built one but the Trottel is a flying fool for sure!

I say that from what I see in the video and also because I used google translate to see what Trottle means in German. And it means fool!

Jack
Apr 16, 2018, 01:30 AM
Registered User
davereap's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slam555
what are the throw settings I always get them wrong on a flying wing since the weathers bad I would like to build one
For throws I always try for maximum movement.. then set some down rates..75% and 50%.. all will have 30% expo..
once flown I reset the %ages to where I prefer.. leaving the max as 100% but setting the down rates to whats comfortable.
On all models the COG position will determine how well it reacts to the throws, start with a slightly forward position.
Use an online calculator ( or sketchup) to find the 20% and 25% area locations and starting at 20% you work your way back till you find the spot where you are happy with models flight
Apr 16, 2018, 08:08 AM
Registered User
it's been my experience that the elevators need very little on the flying wings and deltas, so I guess I'll start with 1/4" and work up
Apr 16, 2018, 12:39 PM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
If your TX has a high/low rates switch on the elevons on a wing you can switch the rates as you fly. Most time I have mine 30-50% or so on the low rates.

If you want to try something interesting, with a high rate deflection of 45 degrees or so if you cut the power and give it full up elevator many wings will start a slightly nose high but flat and nearly vertical descent. And you can play with the amount of deflection and aileron action as it comes down to pick a soft spot for a stall/flop type landing.

This will let you fly out of some very small clearings or when surrounded by tall structures. I call it the "helicopter mode"...

Jack
Last edited by jackerbes; Apr 16, 2018 at 01:29 PM.
Apr 16, 2018, 12:58 PM
Registered User
here goes the latest in our scratch builds

MicroTrond Willi - Willi Rs and iNav v1.9 #17 (3 min 16 sec)
Apr 18, 2018, 09:06 AM
Registered User
davereap's Avatar
Both deltas have been flown today.. that is the Mini Blitz and the 26" Quasar..
the weather has gone good...

Ive just maidened the 26" model Quasar and its flying well. for general flying 1"+- on the elevons is enough..
These flights were nose heavy requiring some push to keep it level when inverted..
The 3D aspects will be tried when I can adjust the COG better and have the courage...lol..
It feels like the increased area of the v2 fuzz has improved the knife edge, on its side there was little to no dropping of the nose, and that can only improve as the COG goes back..

The noisy motor is caused by the prop being off centre..
The vertical is unlimited.. its slow flight is very good..
Rolls are fast enough on the low 1" rates and loops are fine ..
Flair for landing is nice and easy, slowing down for a zero speed landing.
General cruise is moderately slow at well under 1/2 power

26inch quasar 1 18 april 2018 (7 min 25 sec)

.
26inch quasar 2 18 april 2018 (6 min 26 sec)


Two very different models , The Q is a steady flier , but very aerobatic...
The Blitz is a little rocket.. even at half power..

The Mini Blitz was previously flown on 2s which is adequate.. today I used some 450 3s nanotechs..
The blitz is a bit of a rocket...lol.. on half power its fast enough.. vertical is unlimited..
Its smooth with a KFm2 wing, and light and tough enough for some bumpy landings..
.
22inch mini blitz 1 18 april 2018 (6 min 50 sec)

.
22inch mini blitz 2 18 april 2018 (4 min 49 sec)


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