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Nov 13, 2009, 06:36 AM
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AlexanderB's Avatar
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Robin,

Well, of course you are right with what you are stating. Your approach to use what you have with basic tools is just great and actually I am not the best builder. The machinery and all that stuff helps me a lot to fill the gaps So I consider those like you who just use basic tools for a plane (like your huge DeHavilland) the better builders. Not to be too modest or even fishing for compliments. It's just that I really think so.

But anyway. When I look at your video all I can say is: Wow! She's flying so slow and gentle! Take off is perfect! I hope that mine will fly just as half as good and "scale" as yours does. Congratulations. Just great to see that! I also read the great article in the newsletter of your club. Would you mind explaining your "preferred method of splitting an airframe" ? I want to split my DC-6 fuselage also above the wing.

I'm into that hobby for about three years now and I consider myself still an "advanced beginner" When it comes to flying I also have to learn a lot. My first scratch build project was a 63" DC-3. She was totally nose heavy and overweight. I just wasn't able to fly her properly. I asked an experienced buddy to test-fly her. If she was too slow she tip stalled heavily. But my fried was alway able to recover. In the meantime I bought a ESP DC-3 (GWS) to practise scale flying. Here is a small video of one flight. Unfortunately not the best quality.

On my DC-3 I saved 10% weight and found the correct CG and now she just flies great! What I learned from that: build as light as even possible. In the end she'll be heavier anyway. That's what you obviousely do.

Now I have a 104" Cessna 182 with 6kg (less that 14 lbs) and I had to "reinvent" landing for me. I had to learn that with full flaps I have to apply much more throttle for landing than I expected. I also had to learn to land on the mains by pulling the elevator entirely in the last feet of the approach. I hope that this experience helps me when it comes to fly my DC-6. So during the summer I practise and now I'm building.

Take care
Alexander
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Nov 13, 2009, 12:40 PM
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AlexanderB's Avatar
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Short update


It may seem that I jump wild when building. But there is a pattern behind it : I have to finish the planning on the wing before I can start milling the ribs. The plan is almost 95% done. But still some minor points are missing. On of them are the landing lights which are in the wing and which are retractable. They extend 84,25° (Douglas Manual) and of course I want to do that. Therefore I will use 5g Servos plus an electronic switch that I got cheap from HK.

One problem is that I cannot position the landing lights where they are positioned in the full scale plane. It would collide with the torque rod of the flaps so I have to move them a little outboard and more forward. You can see this on the first picture (red is the original position, yellow the chosen one).

I will use 1W emitter (warm white) with special lens and I will build an aluminium cage that will also allow cooling of the emitter. Maybe I manage it this weekend to build a test-rig.

I also set the position for the torque rot and the servo.

Alexander
Nov 16, 2009, 01:17 PM
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Short Update: during the weekend I managed to build the landing lights which can be extendet and retracted.

Actually I had to test several prototypes until I came to the solution to use the same method JB used on his great DC-9: I attached the whole mechanism to a servo.

The alu bracket is also used for cooling the emitter. But it proved not sufficiend. I have to add an additional heat sink.
Last edited by AlexanderB; Nov 16, 2009 at 03:55 PM.
Nov 16, 2009, 06:58 PM
Registered User
Simple and elegant, Great!
Paul
Nov 16, 2009, 08:21 PM
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Parkk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderB
Short Update: during the weekend I managed to build the landing lights which can be extendet and retracted.

Actually I had to test several prototypes until I came to the solution to use the same method JB used on his great DC-9: I attached the whole mechanism to a servo.

The alu bracket is also used for cooling the emitter. But it proved not sufficiend. I have to add an additional heat sink.
Neet idea !
Nov 17, 2009, 02:25 AM
Scratch Builder
AlexanderB's Avatar
Thread OP
Thank you all but the cheers have to go to John (JB). It was his idea.
Nov 17, 2009, 12:19 PM
IAMCANADIAN
Grejen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderB
Short Update: during the weekend I managed to build the landing lights which can be extendet and retracted.

Actually I had to test several prototypes until I came to the solution to use the same method JB used on his great DC-9: I attached the whole mechanism to a servo.

The alu bracket is also used for cooling the emitter. But it proved not sufficiend. I have to add an additional heat sink.
Very slick. It certainly reminds me of JB's DC-9
I'm surprised you have to cool the bulbs (emitters). Are they not LEDs?
Last edited by Grejen; Nov 17, 2009 at 12:20 PM. Reason: read the whole post.
Nov 17, 2009, 04:20 PM
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AlexanderB's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grejen
Very slick. It certainly reminds me of JB's DC-9
I'm surprised you have to cool the bulbs (emitters). Are they not LEDs?
Yes they are 1W Luxeon emitter without the typical LED board. They get really hot! As I said: the aluminium bracket gets so hot after three minutes you cannot touch it! But only on the lower side, not where the light is emitted.

Another aspect (alway on top during that build): the entire landinglight with servo and so on weight less than 15g.
Nov 17, 2009, 09:25 PM
Fascinating R/C detail/construction coverage on my favorite 4 engined transport,which I flew in as a kid.
Nov 18, 2009, 05:13 AM
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AlexanderB's Avatar
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Thank you penrod&sam for your kind reply.

I wish that I'd have the chance to fly in the DC-6 one day. But I consider myself lucky that I had the chance to see her in the Hangar 8 in Salzburg / Austria so close. I had ladders and everything I needed to see almost every detail. I was lucky to talk to an engineer of the DC-6, sit on the captains seat and move the controls and feel the cables of the ailerons . More than that I saw the controls moving and thus seeing a lot of details.

I also think that it's just great to have that treasure of information I was able to gather over the time. There is sort of an identification and dedication to that project to really build a "little" DC-6 with scale details most of the people won't even see. for instance the flap movement and the details on the landing gear.

There is so much interesting information such as:

1.7. AILERONS. - Each aileron, of aluminum alloy
construction, consists of formed caps extending the entire
length of the aileron, ribs spaced approximately
every 4 inches along the aileron length, a formed trailing
edge, and Alclad skin. Lead weights are attached
to the removable aileron leading edge to balance the
surface. The 4 aileron hinges are permanently lubricated
ball bearings supported by brackets extending
from ribs of the outer wing panel. Each aileron is operated
by a push rod attached to the aileron differential.

1.8. AILERON TABS.-The right aileron has a trim tab
set in the trailing edge, supported on 2 ball bearing
hinges. The tab consists of a· channel-type spar and a
formed aluminum alloy frame covered with Alclad
skin. The right aileron also has a fixed-type trim tab
attached to the trailing edge which can be adjusted on
the ground to compensate for slight wing heaviness.
The left aileron has 2 spring control flying tabs set in
the trailing edge at the inboard end. The tabs are similar
in construction to the right aileron trim tab.


Take care
Alexander
Last edited by AlexanderB; Nov 18, 2009 at 05:19 AM.
Nov 18, 2009, 12:28 PM
It actually Flies!
Float Flyer's Avatar

Manuals


Hi Alexander,

I am not sure if you already have these research items or not, but I recently stumbled into this website. I bought some material for my Avro Jetliner from him. Great service.

http://www.flight-manuals-on-cd.com/C118.html

Keep up the excellent work!!

Cheers!

Float Flyer
Nov 19, 2009, 05:58 AM
Scratch Builder
AlexanderB's Avatar
Thread OP
Thank you Float Flyer for your kind comment.

I ordered my manuals from http://www.aircraft-manuals.com/

* Parts Manual (>4000 pages!!!)
* Maintenance Manual
* Description and Operation Manual

I think this is enough (> 6000 pages)

There is really so much stuff. I was looking for the start-up order of the engines and found it on page 3-40 of the Description and Operation Manual:

It is recommended that the engines be started
in the following order: No. 3, 4, 2, and 1.


I definetely want to start the engines in that order. I have a 12 channel TX(Graupner MX24s) and I'm sure I can make it. The YGE ESC allow to start each motor very, very smooth.

Regarding the channels I'm confident:

4 Channels Motors
4 Channels Controls: Aileron, Elevator, Rudder, Flaps
1 Channel Retractable Gear
1 Channel Landing lights
1 Channel Navigation Lights (ACL will be aways ON)
1 Channel RESERVE

Take care
Alexander
Nov 19, 2009, 08:08 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderB
They get really hot! As I said: the aluminium bracket gets so hot after three minutes you cannot touch it!
I forget which aircraft it was, but I remember certain exterior lights could not be left illuminated on the ground for more than a minute or so (due to potential thermal runaway). The same lights could be left on indefinitely in the air as they were designed to be cooled by the airstream. The same concept applies to electrical windshield anti-ice system and pitot tube anti-ice system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderB
There is really so much stuff. I was looking for the start-up order of the engines and found it on page 3-40 of the Description and Operation Manual:

It is recommended that the engines be started
in the following order: No. 3, 4, 2, and 1.
This is a typical starting order for a 4 engine plane. My 25 yrs experience was mainly with C-130s. Not sure if it applies well to this plane, but the order is generally driven by:
1. Safety - The crew entry (exit) door is nearest the #2 engine...if an emergency ocurred during the first 2 starts, it was not "right in your face" upon egress!
2. Utility systems - Primary electrical power typically comes from the #3 engine. Often true with hydraulic systems as well.

FWIW,
Don (recently retired USAF aircraft mechanic)
Nov 19, 2009, 08:20 AM
Scratch Builder
AlexanderB's Avatar
Thread OP
Don,

thank you for your most interesting reply.

Regarding the landing lights: this is also the fact on the DC-6.

Ground operation of the landing lights should be
limited to as short a period as possible, as the absence
of a cooling windstream will result in their overheating.
Always make certain that the on-off switch is in
the "OFF" position following retraction.


Maybe its funny but to me as someone who's not into manned flying these information are just great and I feel that my DC-6 will in some way behave like the full scale plane.

Regarding the order of start up: I never heard that but it makes sense! Thank you.

I learn a lot what I will never use in my life

Cheers Alexander
Nov 19, 2009, 08:32 AM
Registered User
Parkk's Avatar
Sorry about being a little OT, but I was a new student pilot at TSTI in 1980 Waco, TX. I was standing on the ramp watching a Navy DC-6 (C-54 ?) doing touch and goes and while on takeoff run the gear retracted and the bird settled down on it's belly and of course all the blades striking the runway as it slid to a stop! Anyone else heard of this or know any details?


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