Free sim R/C Desk Pilot up for download. - Page 21 - RC Groups
Thread Tools
Mar 31, 2010, 11:17 AM
Registered User
kdahlhaus's Avatar
It would be nice to include a rapid cycle time when editing paramters - say the keeping the editor open in one window while flying in the sim in another window. Saving a change from the editor would update the params in the sim - either immediately, within a few seconds, or perhaps at the next restart. This would greatly facilitate tweaking of the planes.

Anybody know if KFM wings work in flight sims? Not sure how the physics engines would deal with the step.



ggunners - thanks for the FSM planes you've made and posted. The printed-p40 is one of my favorites in FSM, and it's giving a friend of mine hte confidence to try the real-world version.
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Mar 31, 2010, 01:25 PM
Registered User
GeneralFailure's Avatar
Thanks all for your comments!
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Flyin'
Are you going to make the airplane in the video available to import into your existing software?
Yes, the editor comes with a new version of the sim. Although not much has changed visually in the sim itself, it is needed to support the new models. I'll include the aircraft from the video, but it's a model I created about 6 years ago and has very low detail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdahlhaus
Anybody have connections at Parkzone to get some of their lineup in the sim?
I would like to know that too
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggunners
One thought on the moments is to populate the calculator based on the existing model as if it was scale. Also wondering on the moment calculation if you are using a distributed mass or just the mass at the CofG.
Hi Gary, thx for the comments. The moments of inertia calculator uses an oversimplification of an airplane using a solid cilinder (fuselage) and flat rectangle (wing), both centered on the CG like in the screenshot below. I know this is oversimplifying it, but at least it will give an order of magnitude (while testing it I realized my inertia values for the current aircraft are way off ). I like your idea of populating the values, although I have no way of knowing the wing chord and weight distribution between fuselage and wing (although I could guess eg. 85-15). The inertia is probably the hardest one for an aircraft builder to get right. How do you calculate those values for your aircraft?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdahlhaus
It would be nice to include a rapid cycle time when editing paramters - say the keeping the editor open in one window while flying in the sim in another window. Saving a change from the editor would update the params in the sim - either immediately, within a few seconds, or perhaps at the next restart. This would greatly facilitate tweaking of the planes.
This is exactly what the video demonstrates . You can change parameters even while flying the plane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdahlhaus
Anybody know if KFM wings work in flight sims? Not sure how the physics engines would deal with the step.
All most flightmodels need is the lift/drag coefficient for one or more sections of the wing, so it doesn't really matter what fysical shape the wing has as long as you have those numbers.

Cheers,
Davy
Mar 31, 2010, 01:36 PM
Registered User
GeneralFailure's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eves
The plane editor looks freak'in fantastic!

You obviously known what your doing. You must have a physics background, yes?
The graphic adjustments for the plane physics look very complicated, but user friendly and well thought out. I hope they come with a brief explanation for someone inquisitive like me with less understanding of flight physics.

GF, from my perspective, having played with both realflight and FMS (both good programs in their own right), RC Desk Pilot is already surpassing many of their aspects.

I love the game mode options (pylons and scarecrow) as well as the simplicity of adding 3D objects to a map. I hope you keep it flexible and structured, allowing the user to be creative, utilize existing options, code and save various options for individual maps. (I'm thinking in-game adjustable limbo beams with calypso music in the back ground) :-)

Looking forward to playing with the plane editor.
A big thumbs up.
Oops, almost forgot to reply to your post.
Actually, my background is in math instead of physics, so I'm a bit nervous what huge errors will appear in the flight model once people start creating aircraft. It's hard to find much information on aerodynamics for the extreme flight envelope of RC aircraft (lift/drag coefficients over 360 AoA are always welcome).

I really like what you have done with the scenery and am eager to see more! This looks like a great map to do slope soaring. My offer to generate the lightmap still stands!
I guess I have to start working on a scenery editor soon

Cheers,
Davy
Mar 31, 2010, 02:57 PM
Registered User
kdahlhaus's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralFailure
Thanks all for your comments!
Y
This is exactly what the video demonstrates . You can change parameters even while flying the plane.
All most flightmodels need is the lift/drag coefficient for one or more sections of the wing, so it doesn't really matter what fysical shape the wing has as long as you have those numbers.

Cheers,
Davy
Cool - I haven't watched the video yet, but glad to hear you're ahead of the game on this.

K
Apr 01, 2010, 12:38 PM
Bit-Twiddler and Flyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralFailure
Hi Gary, thx for the comments. The moments of inertia calculator uses an oversimplification of an airplane using a solid cilinder (fuselage) and flat rectangle (wing), both centered on the CG like in the screenshot below. I know this is oversimplifying it, but at least it will give an order of magnitude (while testing it I realized my inertia values for the current aircraft are way off ). I like your idea of populating the values, although I have no way of knowing the wing chord and weight distribution between fuselage and wing (although I could guess eg. 85-15). The inertia is probably the hardest one for an aircraft builder to get right. How do you calculate those values for your aircraft?
GF, The Par Editor created for FMS by Mr. Masuoka has a moment calculator on the [Main] tab. If you know what the mass distribution by component is you can input those values. Otherwise, just put in the total mass and hit enter and it will give you the new moments based on an internal default.

-- ggunners
Apr 01, 2010, 02:01 PM
Registered User
GeneralFailure's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggunners
GF, The Par Editor created for FMS by Mr. Masuoka has a moment calculator on the [Main] tab. If you know what the mass distribution by component is you can input those values. Otherwise, just put in the total mass and hit enter and it will give you the new moments based on an internal default.

-- ggunners
Thanks, I didn't know about that tool. I'm sure I can learn a lot from it, not only for the editor, but for the flight model as well.
Cheers,
Davy
Apr 03, 2010, 02:37 PM
Heli Bouncer
Looooeeee!'s Avatar
Hi Dave,

Great to see you get the plane editor bundled with the program. So if we want to import our own models what other format's will it accept besides DirectX .X files?

There's control surface animation correct? Is there going to be a tutorial for setting the axis' of the animated flight surfaces? Will it also include the ability to map extra channels for flaps and retracts?

It looks like I'll have to reload the .Net 2 update that failed in XP last time I went updating Windoze. What's the minimum on board memory for a dedicated video card used for this sim? Could an old overclocked VooDoo 4500 that does run DirectX 9.C work for this sim?

Sorry for all the questions.

Lewis
Apr 03, 2010, 04:13 PM
Registered User
GeneralFailure's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looooeeee!
Hi Dave,

Great to see you get the plane editor bundled with the program. So if we want to import our own models what other format's will it accept besides DirectX .X files?

There's control surface animation correct? Is there going to be a tutorial for setting the axis' of the animated flight surfaces? Will it also include the ability to map extra channels for flaps and retracts?

It looks like I'll have to reload the .Net 2 update that failed in XP last time I went updating Windoze. What's the minimum on board memory for a dedicated video card used for this sim? Could an old overclocked VooDoo 4500 that does run DirectX 9.C work for this sim?

Sorry for all the questions.

Lewis
Hi Lewis,
For now only DirectX .x are supported. There are (free) tools available to convert other formats to .x. I'll see if I can find the free Microsoft tool to convert .3ds to .X and put it up for download with the editor.

Control surfaces and landing gear can be animated. The animation can be created from within the editor. However, for now only simple rotations are supported, no fancy keyframing. The new version of the sim supports 6 channels, the last two (flaps and gear) are on/off switches and can be toggled using two extra channels on your controller/joystick or the keyboard ([f] and [g] keys).

One important limitation of the first version of the editor that I don't think have mentioned yet, is that it doesn't support helicopters yet. I first want the improve the heli flight model, because now, it's

I do fear for the performance of that Voodoo card I'm afraid it won't support pixel shaders and the sim won't start (it will give an error like "no direct3D device found"). Only one way to find out though! Maybe a good excuse to upgrade

Cheers,
Davy
Apr 03, 2010, 04:35 PM
Heli Bouncer
Looooeeee!'s Avatar
...doublepost..
Last edited by Looooeeee!; Apr 03, 2010 at 04:41 PM.
Apr 03, 2010, 04:40 PM
Heli Bouncer
Looooeeee!'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralFailure
Hi Lewis,
For now only DirectX .x are supported. There are (free) tools available to convert other formats to .x. I'll see if I can find the free Microsoft tool to convert .3ds to .X and put it up for download with the editor.

Control surfaces and landing gear can be animated. The animation can be created from within the editor. However, for now only simple rotations are supported, no fancy keyframing. The new version of the sim supports 6 channels, the last two (flaps and gear) are on/off switches and can be toggled using two extra channels on your controller/joystick or the keyboard ([f] and [g] keys).

One important limitation of the first version of the editor that I don't think have mentioned yet, is that it doesn't support helicopters yet. I first want the improve the heli flight model, because now, it's

I do fear for the performance of that Voodoo card I'm afraid it won't support pixel shaders and the sim won't start (it will give an error like "no direct3D device found"). Only one way to find out though! Maybe a good excuse to upgrade

Cheers,
Davy

No that's OK, I was just curious, as my old card does run directX9.C. It's a challenge I do to see what kind of newer sims I can run on the older machine.

My question now is that I've downloaded the sim to my desktop and I've installed the Direct X 9.C update, (It had 9.B..) but your sim says it has to run in a "rasterizer(?) mode" that will run slowly, but then the initiation fails and the sim closes. You said that it needs Shader2 support, can this be turned off? I think I'm limited to Shader 1.5 or something like it..

I'm afraid my HP's onboard card is only 64M It's an Nvidia GeForce4 440 GO similar to the MX..( but the onboard ram is 1Gig..) Is this going to be a deal breaker?

I'd really like to get this going on my laptop as the model creation device looks fantastic, and I've got dozens and dozens of models in Metasequoia which is easily converted to .x but if this is gong to be a problem,, ...

just watched the video on how to animate, looks brilliant, but, I fear that neither of my machines is up to the task.
Apr 03, 2010, 05:02 PM
Registered User
GeneralFailure's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looooeeee!
No that's OK, I was just curious, as my old card does run directX9.C. It's a challenge I do to see what kind of newer sims I can run on the older machine.

My question now is that I've downloaded the sim to my desktop and I've installed the Direct X 9.C update, (It had 9.B..) but your sim says it has to run in a "rasterizer(?) mode" that will run slowly, but then the initiation fails and the sim closes. You said that it needs Shader2 support, can this be turned off? I think I'm limited to Shader 1.5 or something like it..

I'm afraid my HP's onboard card is only 64M It's an Nvidia GeForce4 440 GO similar to the MX..( but the onboard ram is 1Gig..) Is this going to be a deal breaker?

I'd really like to get this going on my laptop as the model creation device looks fantastic, and I've got dozens and dozens of models in Metasequoia which is easily converted to .x but if this is gong to be a problem,, ...

just watched the video on how to animate, looks brilliant, but, I fear that neither of my machines is up to the task.
Yeah, both your cards are DirectX 8 cards. Probably your Geforce4 has a better chance than the Voodoo. The message about the rasterizer means he's going to try to do everything in software, but that's a lost cause to be honest. Even if it would work, you'd get 1 frame every 10 seconds.
The two features it checks at startup is T&L (transform and light) and vertex shader version > 1.1.
I'll see if I can lower the specs on a next version, but to be fair, your pc is at least 6 years old

Cheers,
Davy
Apr 03, 2010, 05:36 PM
Heli Bouncer
Looooeeee!'s Avatar
Yeah I thought so, I'm a bit stuck for getting new hardware as it is now. The Laptop is only 5 years old according to the owners manual and other paperwork, it's a AMD 2Gig Hz 64 processor, but I doubt that's the hang-up.
I'll try again later,

Thanks

P.S. here's a screenshot of the error flag, maybe this can help?
Last edited by Looooeeee!; Apr 03, 2010 at 05:56 PM.
Apr 03, 2010, 05:58 PM
RC pilot,AMA Member.
sonicjet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looooeeee!
Yeah I thought so, I'm a bit stuck for getting new hardware as it is now. The Laptop is only 5 years old according to the owners manual and other paperwork, it's a AMD 2Gig Hz 64 processor, but I doubt that's the hang-up.
I'll try again later,

Thanks

P.S. here's a screenshot of the error flag, maybe this can help?
Sadly only 5years old is not a only in the computer industry.
Yeah..your GPU does not support DX9c,just 9...sorry.
Apr 04, 2010, 02:43 AM
Registered User
GeneralFailure's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looooeeee!
Yeah I thought so, I'm a bit stuck for getting new hardware as it is now. The Laptop is only 5 years old according to the owners manual and other paperwork, it's a AMD 2Gig Hz 64 processor, but I doubt that's the hang-up.
I'll try again later,

Thanks

P.S. here's a screenshot of the error flag, maybe this can help?
Hi Lewis,
if you're still up for it, I'll try to modify the code to fall back to shaderless rendering when it can't find a suitable graphics card. You'll have to wait a few weeks though for me to get the next beta ready and I can't promise it will work. I appreciate your efforts and feedback, I'm learning from it.

Cheers,
Davy
Apr 04, 2010, 12:09 PM
Heli Bouncer
Looooeeee!'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralFailure
Hi Lewis,
if you're still up for it, I'll try to modify the code to fall back to shaderless rendering when it can't find a suitable graphics card. You'll have to wait a few weeks though for me to get the next beta ready and I can't promise it will work. I appreciate your efforts and feedback, I'm learning from it.

Cheers,
Davy
Thanks Dave

I think that would be fine, I don't know if a simple standalone model creator would be possible as I'd like to contribute content even if I can't play with the big kids until I upgrade. I suspect it would be more trouble for you than for the shaderless fallback Beta.

One thing I've noticed about the laptop is that it's got a directX folder in Program Files that's completely empty, and there's no DXDiag in it either, which my desktop has. I suspect the Direct X functions for the laptop are all in the Microsoft.Net folder under Windows, but I'd assume that there would be a troubleshooting program in the Microsoft.Net folder for checking out DirectX.

My desktop has no issues when I do a diagnostic, it manages to generate the spinning mapped cube through level 9.

I'm going to give the 3DFXVooDoo equipped machine a try with this as it seems to do rendering that the laptop can't do. I've got the card upgraded with a modern driver that's supposed to be able to do stuff that Nvidia and ATI cards aren't supposed to. I'm not sure it will work but it does directional lighting and surface bloom in Targetware.


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Atlanta area micro r/c heli pilot needed ASAP Greg McNair Aerial Photography 1 Nov 13, 2006 05:20 AM
For Sale (71)r/c digest mags up for bid bigtfortulsa Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 0 Jan 11, 2006 08:29 AM
For Sale Old r/c Digest magazines up for bid bigtfortulsa Non R/C Items (FS/W) 0 Jan 11, 2006 08:24 AM
R/C Airship Pilot Needed - Orlando, FL Stevens AeroModel Parkflyers 4 Mar 18, 2002 09:24 PM