Model Diesel Engines - Page 9 - RC Groups
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Jun 17, 2009, 07:49 PM
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Interesting engines

Jim, I wish my TD .09 D would do 13K on an 8x4. On glow, 10%, the best I get is about 16.5k with a 7x4 wide blade. My .09 Webra diesel does about 9.5k on the 8x4. I don’t mix any amyl nitrite/nitrate (2%) to my fuel, just ether, castor and light kerosene.

Ryan, I guess for those wanting the diesel, they’ll just have to order direct and by pass MRC. What kind of performance does the 0.11 provide?

Warren, interesting 5 cc Mills. Sounds neat the way you say it runs. I’d love to hear the two speeds, with the burp, burp….burp.

Jack, nice Valkyrie and Jaguar. Any comments on how well the “reproductions” compare to the original? Perhaps better metals, fits? Who supplies them?

JMP, are pictures of the Oliver Battleaxe 2 cc coming?

I bought a used Oliver from Michael’s Models, about 1975. Are they still in business?

As modelers, we love our old engines. Ever give it any thought as to why? When I was a kid, a new engine came home, then onto the test stand and let her run. Now a days, they sit in boxes, coming out only to get oiled now and again. Love to day dream about them and what might have happened in the past, but never did. That ETA .15 might have made me a winner in team race if I hadn’t broken the crank or smacked Mother Earth. Are we re living our younger years, or just hoping to get around to it and build that particular model? Perhaps a little of both. A few models I think I would love to build and fly are only dreams…I probably couldn’t keep up with them, let alone see them when they got 10 seconds away.
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Jun 17, 2009, 09:53 PM
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TLyttle's Avatar
Nope. Michael's Models was sold, the shop reduced in size by half, the staff were useless, and I think it folded. Ah, well...

Sometimes I regret selling off my collection, sometimes not. I still have a few jewels left, hating the thought of having to sell off my ETA, Sesquis, MVVS, Olivers, etc.; maybe they will help pay for my funeral...
Jun 18, 2009, 08:59 AM
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JackHiner's Avatar

For running I like well made reproductions of the old diesels. If you are a collector the real thing. Some reproductions are not so well made or required some TLC to get running and insure a long life. I have seen some Mills reproductions from CS (China) that would not run. Any Diesels purchased by David Owen in Australia are excellent. I have GB 5.4 and MP Jet PB Classic David got from Europe and are great engines with instructions well written. David is in the process of making some Taipan .15 diesels at this time. Eric Clutton (Doctor Diesel) in the USA sells some CS reproduction. I got a Deezil from Eric a couple years back and it runs well. Eric test runs the PAW diesels he sell and I would guess Eric does the same thing with CS reproductions. Another source for reproduction diesels is Rustler Engines in the UK. Ian Russell at Rustler Engines gets componets made overseas but assembles the engines personally. Amco, Oliver Jaguars and Tigers, Sparey 5 cc and others offered by Ian. I have a lot of time with Jaguar and GB in Playboys with R/C. No problems to date. Jack
Jun 18, 2009, 09:27 AM
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JackHiner's Avatar
I saw my first diesel in the early 1950's. An older fellow was flying a single channel R/C glider with a small English diesel on a power pod. Not only the first diesel but also the first R/C model that I saw. The old timer (maybe 30) instructed me on the use of a diesel and fuel. A couple other guys had problems with OK Cub and McCoy diesels a bit latter. So I always stayed away from the small USA diesels. A kid my age was having problems with a small maybe 1 cc or so diesel. He loaned it to me and I flew it in U/C models. After a few flights he wanted his engine back. So I educated him on operating a diesel. Later I purchased my first diesel a Super Tigre G-30 and flew U/C and later R/C models. Next I got a Super Tigre G-20D in the early 1960. A few years later a O.S. Max 15D That I used on only one model a Flite Streak that flew great. About the same time I got a Webra Mach II and flew R/C and U/C with this engine. I liked the Webra best. About 1970 I started flying R/C sailplanes and a few years later got rid of my diesels and glow engines. In 1994 I got into SAM old time models and back into diesels. Jack
Jun 18, 2009, 10:43 AM
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JMP_blackfoot's Avatar
Originally Posted by JohnAV8R
JMP, are pictures of the Oliver Battleaxe 2 cc coming?
As I wrote above, I don't have pictures and it is in storage that I can't access until mid-July. Then I'll take the pictures and post them.
Regarding "Jaguar", that was my first engine in 1956. I was 13 and was staying in Pforzheim, Germany for the summer as part of a student exchange (German was my first foreign language). I saw the 2.5cc Jaguar in the model shop; it looked so nice that I saved my money to buy it. After learning to run it, I wore it out flying several control-line models. All in all, it was a nice engine. I ran it mostly with narrow-blade French "Audax" 23x15 props (9"x6" for you ). The attached picture is of an example I obtained a few years ago from Barton Model Products (, swapping it for extra engines I had.
I later used a Taifun Blizzard 2.5cc which I did not like so much because it was a real "shaker", vibrating way too much for my taste. I flew it in a George Aldrich Peacemaker (the molded balsa fuselage Top Flite kit version, later replaced it with a Super-Tigre G20-23 glow of impeccable behaviour)
That same year, my best friend bought a 2.5cc Taifun Rasant 1 and used it in control-line and free-flight models. I found a Rasant recently. It too was a well-behaved engine.
But over the years, I would rate the Super-Tigre G20-15D as my favorite 2.5cc diesel, even though I had great pleasure flying a "Septal" rudder-only model with a Webra Mach II R/C in 1969, while doing my military duty in the Armée de l'Air.
At one time, around 1985, I was contemplating trying for duration records and ran the G20-15D with a 12x6 prop ( I don't remember the exact rpm , I guess around 6000) and less than 10% synthetic 2-stroke oil without any trouble. I was getting just over 1 minute run per 1cc fuel, and the model remained quite clean. The engine did not suffer in any way from these experiments and is still a great runner in spite of a mangled outside appearance.
Last edited by JMP_blackfoot; Jun 18, 2009 at 10:55 AM.
Jun 18, 2009, 05:06 PM
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Gluehand's Avatar
Jack and Blackfoot,
Those Super Tigre diesels are really nice, and high quality too.....I have flown quite a lot with a G15RV with a MAG throttle....the old ST:s are really fine engines.
The Taipan looks like a fine engine too, although they weren't available in my corner of the globe, so I don't know much about them....

Early diesel experiences
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the first diesel I ever saw/heard was a WAF-1, a high quality 1 cc diesel by Walter Fritsch, Berlin.

Mid 50's it must have been, and I was just about too young to handle a combustion engine (I grew fast though... )

In retrospect, I understand that this engine isn't the most well known, as the production figures couldn't compete with the Webras etc, but in my home town though, the WAF was very well established, with a good reputation among modelers at the time, owned by many.
Probably because it was warmly recommended and eagerly sold by our local LHS.
If asking modelers from other places, surprisingly few seem to remember this engine.

Not beeing a particularily hot performer, it was known as a "last forever" engine, and it was easy to start and handle, even for beginners...a reliable long-stroke diesel...

As it happened, I never bought a Waf-1, as other engines eventually "came my way" (Mc Coy .049 glow, Webra 1.5 S "Record", ED Bee, etc...), and the economy didn't allow a young kid buying too many engines - so when I many years later found a WAF-1, it felt like "coming back".
Among my old diesels, I'm particularily happy over this one...and today I still find it just as good as we did 50 years ago, i.e. no glorified memories here...
Last edited by Gluehand; Jun 18, 2009 at 05:25 PM.
Jun 18, 2009, 08:57 PM
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JMP_blackfoot's Avatar
Some French Micron diesels for a change:
- Moustic 0,3cc
- Meteore 0,9cc
- Micron 0,9cc FRV
and the little-known Dynamic 1,5cc.
The Micron are of high quality and last forever, while the Dynamic was a pain to start but did perform okay once running. I flew mine in a Berkeley Helioplane rigged for control-line - flaps, all-flying stab and all. The spinner has a groove for starting with a string . This was standard . Those were the days...
Last edited by JMP_blackfoot; Jun 18, 2009 at 09:19 PM.
Jun 18, 2009, 11:20 PM
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Warren B's Avatar
Hi JMP, I have one of those 0.9 Microns. Lovely little diesel, just like a French Mills. The purchase receit from a Paris model shop says 1958 I think.
Only trouble is the tank only lasts about 1 minute. I'll turn up a larger ali one some time.
I have in mind a little RC Pinnochio (original used the earlier 0.8 Micron). Should be a good little local park flyer when I get the time.
Jun 18, 2009, 11:49 PM
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JMP_blackfoot's Avatar
Hello Warren,

They are lovely engines, but as you say the tank gives a very limited run.
In the same family, I also have the 2.8cc Micron with the tank above the intake tube (actually the 2,5cc version of the 2,8) of around 1950 vintage (when was the 2,5cc introduced as an international class?).
Pinocchio is on my "to-build-one-day" list. I was fortunate to handle the prototype brought by the designer Gabriel Martin when I organised the founding meeting of "Association des Amateurs d'Aéromodèles Anciens" (4A for short -French SAM 70 chapter) at the end of 1984.
Last edited by JMP_blackfoot; Jun 19, 2009 at 05:45 AM.
Jun 19, 2009, 01:20 AM
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Warren B's Avatar
Hi JMP, I have tried to get more Microns on *bay a few times, but they quickly run past my budget. The Celtic model looks well proportioned.
I've seen pictures of the upside down tank version, always wondered if they would simply flood if starting was less than instant.
The original Pinocchio is pictured in the 48 or 49 Aeromodeller Annual. Very chariming with all it's wires, hooks and elastic bands.
Jun 19, 2009, 05:36 AM
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JMP_blackfoot's Avatar
Yes, Micron engines reach high prices nowadays, and those who have them don't let go easily . The Celtic was designed as a cheaper engine aimed at the beginner. It was said to be extremely well-mannered but not very powerful. The type was actually not produced in large numbers and is pretty rare.

You are right about the need to start the Micron 2,8cc with "upside-down" tank quickly before it becomes flooded. At least, it has been my experience. In spite of this however, the engine had a very good reputation with modelers at the time.
I don't have pictures of the engine, it presently being in storage with my Oliver Battleaxe, but Robert Chabot's 1945 Pirate full-size plans show an inverted Micron 2,8 with that type of tank.

Pinocchio was designed as a limited-field model which would be easy to carry in the Parisian public transportation system (metro or bus). This why it is small, definitely not a thermal-hunting glider, and breaks down in many pieces.
Gabriel Martin was a member of the "Pieds-Noirs" "modelling tribe". Why that name ("Black-Feet")?
Here is the explanation I was given by surviving members of the tribe :
They flew from the airfield at Issy-les-Moulineaux, just outside the southern limit of the city of Paris. This is an airfield where many of the French aviation pioneers experimented their flying contraptions in the early 1900's. The field is now much smaller due to urban expansion and what remains is now a heliport. It used to be down wind of a coal-fueled electrical power plant which spewed forth its soot onto the grass in the field and those of the tribe came back from flying sessions with blackened shoes.

Another design to the same limited-field flying constraint is Joe Wagner's very successful "Dakota". I haven't witnessed a Dakota in flight, but it is famous for a safe circling climb followed by a very noticeable and repeatable rate of descent in the glide, much like Pinnochio.
Last edited by JMP_blackfoot; Jun 19, 2009 at 05:47 AM.
Jun 19, 2009, 07:40 AM
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Gluehand's Avatar

The use of dress snaps is a very smart method of retaining struts, at least on a model of this size...

Jun 19, 2009, 10:42 AM
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JMP_blackfoot's Avatar
The little Micron 0,8cc was inspiration to develop the smallest powered model (motomodèle) in these days.
Another contender was François D'Huc Dressler, who became a prominent full-scale aerobatic pilot competing in the French team together with the great Léon Biancotto.
He wrote a series of articles titled "Les Minuscules" in "Le Modèle Réduit d'Avion" describing small progressively more elaborate models from rubber to engine powered. The most famous is "OOmph" for which the little Micron was too much power, so he had to use a cropped propeller of only 150mm diameter to reduce thrust By the way the model's name is spelled with two "Oh", not two "Zero". It doesn't read "Zero m.p.h." .
But It must be said that OOmph is not anywhere so irresistibly cute as Pinocchio
Jun 19, 2009, 09:17 PM
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JMP_blackfoot's Avatar
For those of us who need to repair their British diesel engine(s), here is a useful address:
Jun 20, 2009, 07:46 PM
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[QUOTE=clipclop]My all time favourite small diesel has to be the Barbini B38 1cc of which I have 2 examples 1 NIB and 1 in use, it turns a 7X5" wood zinger around 13,000rpm. But as can be seen in the instruction leaflet max power is 18,000rpm - puts it in the 1cc MPJET class not bad for a mid 50's design.

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