dendog220 - No, it doesn't help with weight at all. Carbon fiber is, in many cases, a much stronger alternative to certain aluminum parts, especially flat parts. In the case of the HeliBaby, they could have certainly built a relatively similar main frame entirely out of CF (like the 1.6mm T-Rex 600 CF frame) and it would have probably reduced the overall weight by quite a bit.

Chances are this could happen in the future - 'upgrade' parts, if you will. Or perhaps another member will produce a replacement CF frame for the HeliBaby. I've seen that happen too.

-Rich

Originally Posted by rich95

Rick - I had actually requested a softcopy PDF manual a while back and received it. I just need to see if it's ok to publicly post it. I've sent a permission request to Sovereign Technologies and I should hear back shortly. Not really sure what the standard protocol is in case like this.

-Rich

Thanks. No need to post it publicly - maybe you could "loan" it to me for a few weeks?

Rick

Hello,

Just a quick note: while it is true that Charly and the manufacturer did have a major disagreement (I am told that it is over quality of the parts manufactured) and that they have parted ways, and yes, the manufacturer decided to proceed in selling the ones they had built, Charly has not left the project. A newer version is presently advancing and will be manufactured in Europe. At least, that's what I've been told.

With all this said, I am curious to get your opinion on the quality of this version as it seems to be at the base of the disagreement.

Best,
eric

Right - first thing's first. Time to get started.

So the first thing I always check with any helicopter is the integrity of assembled parts coming from factories. This primarily involves checking for dirt / dust / grime build-up, making sure there's no binding between freely moving parts, and ensuring that all screws are firmly tightened with proper threadlock applied.

Virtually all of the high-end helis I've ever owned require 80-90% assembly, including my T-Rex 600, T-Rex 450 SE / SA, T-Rex 250, HDX 450, HDX 400, HDX 300, etc, etc. This is great because it forces you to build it from scratch and understand how the mechanics work. In piecing it together, you also learn how to properly wire electronics and arrange them in a manner that will yield the least possible amount of electronic interference. Knowing when you should (and shouldn't) use threadlock, when to use glue, how tightly to fasten aluminum parts vs. plastic parts, belt & gear tension, motor placement, blade alignment, lipo COG, and much, much more, are all things you pick up through manual helicopter assembly.

Having said that, even those helicopters requiring 95% manual assembly still come with some factory assembled parts. The head and tail, for instance, on virtually all RC helicopters tend to come pre-built so it's almost impossible to escape factory assembled parts of some kind.

Occasionally, some of these pre-built parts tend to come poorly assembled. Sometimes there's dirt on the pieces that hinders their movements. Other times, pieces may have been tightened improperly or too much, thus causing binding. Screws may not have been tightly fastened while others may have been fastened so tightly they've been stripped. Sometimes, threadlock hasn't even been used. These are all things that must be carefully checked on any factory-built parts.

HeliBaby

Upon careful inspection of the factory assembled HeliBaby, some noticeable issues were found.

For starters, some of the pieces had a minimal amount of dust build-up which proved to restrict the swashplates from freely moving vertically along the main shaft. The build-up was so minimal that it wasn't visually noticed until the shaft was manually moved along the shaft. A damp cotton cloth gently rubbed over every piece easily solved that problem. I suspect that many of these parts were actually manufactured quite some time ago and had been put aside until now which would explain some of the build-up.

Upon checking parts movement, some binding was found. In particular, rotating the lower swashplate does require a touch of extra force in order to carry the movement through the control arms and up to the upper swashplate. While some of this is due to binding, I think the rest is simply a result of the complicated head and how many individual parts must carry the movement. This is also most likely the reason why Infinity-Hobby is recommending high-torque servos. I managed to remove a lot of the binding by checking all linkage rods and screw attachments but the actual swashplates themselves still prove to have a little resistance when rotating on their pivot balls. Although it's tempting to apply a touch of WD-40, you should never do that. In months the lubricant will attract much more dirt than it would have without it and the binding will become much worse than before. I'll probably take one more look at it and see if there's anything else I can do to loosen them a bit more.

In checking the screws, some were found to be loose. This is not uncommon from other factory assembled parts I've received. Tightening them up fixes that of course, but it leaves me wondering the big question - did they use threadlock to properly fasten the screws at the factory? I've always found this difficult to know from visual inspection. Sometimes I can see a touch of dried threadlock need the screw heads on other helis and this lets me know that it's been used, but with the HeliBaby, I have no idea. The smart but laborious move at this point would be to re-fasten all the screws with proper threadlock but this will easily take a full evening so I will have to find one this week. This is also tricky work because you must be careful not to get threadlock on any bearings as that will mess them up. Regardless, it's important to get this done now instead of waiting for them to come apart on their own and potentially cause a major in-flight crash.

One peculiar thing is that the linkage control 'guide' had all four screws loosely attached. When I tightened them, the head seemed to have more resistance turning then before. I loosened them up again and the problem went away. I'll have to figure out how / why the two are related and how I can get the guide tightened without creating resistance.

One tool I didn't have was a proper ball-link resizer and I've since ordered one for the HeliBaby. I should be receiving it in a couple of days so that will help me remove any remaining binding caused by tight linkage rods.

Given everything I've mentioned here, I didn't really find anything unexpected or uncommon from other helicopters in this factory assembly check.

That's it for tonight. Stay tuned and feel free to post feedback / suggestions.

-Rich

Eric, that's really good news to hear about Charly. I do hope he keeps at it since his expertise is critical to the HeliBaby's success.

-Rich

Originally Posted by CA'ed fingers

Hello,

Just a quick note: while it is true that Charly and the manufacturer did have a major disagreement (I am told that it is over quality of the parts manufactured) and that they have parted ways, and yes, the manufacturer decided to proceed in selling the ones they had built, Charly has not left the project. A newer version is presently advancing and will be manufactured in Europe. At least, that's what I've been told.

With all this said, I am curious to get your opinion on the quality of this version as it seems to be at the base of the disagreement.

Best,
eric

I hope you will keep us updated. I'm curions as to why Charly feels that two flybars are necessary.

Rick

So I spent the better part of last night carefully going over the HeliBaby in order to track down and reduce the high level of resistance within the head. This involved an alcohol wash over the lower swashplate and shaft. Alcohol works great on aluminum because it acts as a strong cleaner and will not leave moisture or produce rust since it immediately evaporates. This helped remove some additional dirt that still remained there but did not make the resistance much better.

The next logical step was remove each linkage rod and test the movements to see if they changed. Coincidentally, when I removed the linkage rods connected from the lower swashplate to the upper ones, the resistance immediately disappeared. This lead me to believe there was something wrong to do with the linkage rods.

Within a few minutes I found the problem. The four linkage rods connecting from the lower swashplate to the upper swashplate are held in place by the linkage rod guide (see pictures). The guide is a piece of aluminum sitting between the two swashplates that helps guide the rods and keeps them in place. It turns out when you rotate the lower swashplate, the four linkage rods move vertically, but also require some lateral space to move in. Since the linkage rod guide did not provide any lateral space for the rods, they would rub against the edges of the guide and produce significant friction. In addition, when I ran my finger along the edge, I was surprised at how sharp it was - and this too, allowed the linkage rod to 'catch' as it travelled vertically within the guide.

When I examined the guide, I found evidence that this was what was happening. The inside groove of the guide had a darker spot where the rod had been scraping along the edge.

As you can see from the pictures, the HeliBaby actually ships with two of the four linkage rod guides removed. My guess is that they found that this resulted in a significant amount of resistance and removed two of them in order to reduce it. Obviously, the problem is still there.

This also explains why Infinity Hobby reported that the HeliBaby requires high-torque cyclic servos in order to properly function.

At this point, I have three options I can try (in this order):

1 - File / sand down the sharp edges of the linkage rod guide so that they cause less friction when the linkage rods rub against them.

2 - Unscrew and rotate the guide 90 degrees, in the hopes that the other two linkage rods require less lateral movement and therefore create less resistance.

3 - Replace the linkage rod guide with another home-made solution that would provide more lateral movement for the linkage rods.

Unfortunately, I don't think the guide can simply be removed. If there's no guide keeping the rods in place, the upper swashplate tends to freely rotate ~30 degrees and I imagine a cyclic movement would transfer differently from the lower swashplate to the upper one.

-Rich

You're very thorough Rich.

Rounding off those rough flat edges should sort that out.

Know that charly had included the flybars for good measure and I know too little about the subject to comment but wouldn't it be great if we got rid of the flybars, add a third blade and slap on a Kamov body for a semi-scale Ka-18 or Ka-25. I do not know if the mods done by EQMOD would work to this effect and would like to hear thoughts on this.

Originally Posted by amsci99

Know that charly had included the flybars for good measure and I know too little about the subject to comment but wouldn't it be great if we got rid of the flybars, add a third blade and slap on a Kamov body for a semi-scale Ka-18 or Ka-25. I do not know if the mods done by EQMOD would work to this effect and would like to hear thoughts on this.

Unfortunately, there are two options. You spend $1K for the whole unit, or you spend $??? for enough parts to build a mast. I don't have $1K right now for another helicopter.

Adding a third blade will be expensive. New swashes must be custom made and a three-bladed "head" must also be cut from scratch.

I don't have the kind of money Dag has to build his 21-foot wingspan B36. He spend $3,100 on landing gear.

I'm going to buy the parts a few at a time and see what it looks like. I really see no need for TWO flybars, but I was not there when Charly engineered this beast.

Rick

Nice work thus far Rich, thanks for the info.

What about widening the groove a little bit and then adding a plastic sleeve to the rod that sits inside the groove? That could significantly reduce the binding.

Originally Posted by smith32

Nice work thus far Rich, thanks for the info.

What about widening the groove a little bit and then adding a plastic sleeve to the rod that sits inside the groove? That could significantly reduce the binding.

Hey Smith32;

Exactly what I ended up doing - I'll post a picture of the new one this evening. It's definitely much better but the problem is that the wider you make it, the greater margin of error in movement between the two swashplates.

I was also considering something along the lines of what you mentioned regarding the plastic sleeve. Someone recommended lining the rod or the guide groove with something like teflon tape that would reduce friction between the two parts. Any thoughts on this? What kind of tape would be good for this and strong enough to handle the rubbing?

-Rich

Originally Posted by rich95

Hey Smith32;

Exactly what I ended up doing - I'll post a picture of the new one this evening. It's definitely much better but the problem is that the wider you make it, the greater margin of error in movement between the two swashplates.

I was also considering something along the lines of what you mentioned regarding the plastic sleeve. Someone recommended lining the rod or the guide groove with something like teflon tape that would reduce friction between the two parts. Any thoughts on this? What kind of tape would be good for this and strong enough to handle the rubbing?

-Rich

If you were using a standard flybarless system, you would do something like this to keep the inner swash rotating with the shaft and blades.

Rick

Hi
Great thread , thanks for posting all the photos , just wanted to subscribe

Hey, welcome Copperclad!

-Rich