Thread Tools
This thread is privately moderated by DanL, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.
Dec 04, 2015, 06:05 PM
Registered User
DanL's Avatar
Thread OP

Simulated Broadside System - part 2


Ok, actually put together a test unit as shown in the drawing in previous post.
See pics and rough vid of the result.

The system is actually pretty simple when made from plastic pipe fittings. I made the valve body for 10 guns, (10 vapor ports), but only rigged one for the test.
Also, did not add the gearmotor to rotate the valve since test was only for the one port rigged with a tube.
The contacts to power the LED were not added either - I just manually contacted the lead to the battery to lightthe LED.

But the vid should give you the idea.

First half of vid shows the "smoke" coming from the carronade as the feed tube is crimped on/off (instead of the action of the rotary valve). My judgement...not quite "explosive" and dense enough, but pretty passable .
Second half of vid shows LED being fired. The smoke stream is constant here (I couldn't manually control smoke puffs, LED and camera all at once..) But you can see the effect of the LED on the smoke stream. It looks pretty good as a simulated cannon flash.

So, with the rotary valve pulsing the "smoke" to each gun barrel, and the LED firing as the smoke is emitted, the effect is not too bad.
All that is pretty easy in this little device. The complexity comes in syncing sound to the gun "blasts". I just don't have a lot of experience in sound, but I imagine adding a sound file player and subwoofer would make a pretty good effect.

I guess I wouldn't recommend this system, though. It is a bit complicated and gets only a "passable" result. There would be a lot of tweaking and the vapor condensation would require fairly frequent cleanups of the valve body, vapor distribution tubes and guns.

An option - back to pyrotechnics - but "mild" pyro. I'll post a simple approach using nichrome wire, black powder substitute and glue to make a mild, safer, indoor version of black powder guns. The effect is definitely better than the 'fog/LED" approach and much simpler.

Fogger Gun (1 min 27 sec)
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Dec 07, 2015, 09:18 PM
Registered User
DanL's Avatar
Thread OP

Simulated Broadside System - part 3


OK, too many problems with the previous design....the bulky rotary vapor distribution valve, the long tubes that collected condensate, and the weak "fog" flow.

This approach uses a single, self-contained mini-smoker for each gun station. It doesn't look anything like a scale gun on deck, but maybe future versions can be designed into a gun base or maybe even in a covered depression in the deck.
This won't work outside on open water, but should work and look fine for indoor static display.

Video and pics attached.

System is designed to run on 12VDC cuz I had 12V mini fans. Can be designed for 6VDC. Hardly uses any power cuz the firing burst is so short. Just guessing, but likely could easily get 50 or more 9-gun broadsides before recharging and topping off the fog fluid.

All parts are readily available. Will add more construction detail and parts list later.

Not yet built is the rotary switch to trigger each gun. The heater and fan likely will be timed the same - initiation and duration - so they will be on one contact. The LED flash seems to be best coming on a fraction of a second after the "smoke" starts so that the flash is visible in the vapor stream. So it will be on a separate contact on the switch. Details on switch construction coming shortly.

The heater element needs to generate heat FAST to get a burst of smoke. So it is pretty simple - five wraps of 28g nichrome wire around a 1/4" dia. glass tubing core and then covered with a thin blanket of fiberglass insulation that wicks up "fog fluid" from a bed of fiberglass underneath the heater element.

Fog and Flash Carronade Fire (1 min 45 sec)
Dec 09, 2015, 02:48 AM
Registered User
DanL's Avatar
Thread OP

Simulated Broadside System - part 4


Here's a PDF with the details for the fog gun and the instructions for building it.
Still just a prototype, but pretty much works for me as is.
Still need to design the rotary switch to activate a single gun blast and a multi-gun broadside.
May 20, 2016, 12:32 AM
Registered User
calypsobill's Avatar
Dear

Following good advice of a good old friends, I just climb to catch up you discussion on design detail for square rigged operation system

I looking for advice or practical plan in purpose to build a sailing Pamir / Kruzenstern square rigged ship.
I already built two square rigged vessels, but they are not what we can said as scale boat.

I am honestly a bit loses in your discussion, because is reach already 20 pages plus with huge amount of information's.
But also since 10 pages seams to me that you focused more on "Guns operations" and not anymore on square "rigged operations" correct ?

Please do not consider my word as critics ! absolutely not ! you topic is amazing
I just think that maybe you solve out already one type of agreement or proved design you may indicate me ?

Anybody own the Pamir draw ?

Many thanks
Aug 29, 2016, 11:38 AM
Registered User
DanL's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by calypsobill
Dear

Following good advice of a good old friends, I just climb to catch up you discussion on design detail for square rigged operation system

I looking for advice or practical plan in purpose to build a sailing Pamir / Kruzenstern square rigged ship.
I already built two square rigged vessels, but they are not what we can said as scale boat.

I am honestly a bit loses in your discussion, because is reach already 20 pages plus with huge amount of information's.
But also since 10 pages seams to me that you focused more on "Guns operations" and not anymore on square "rigged operations" correct ?

Please do not consider my word as critics ! absolutely not ! you topic is amazing
I just think that maybe you solve out already one type of agreement or proved design you may indicate me ?

Anybody own the Pamir draw ?

Many thanks
calypsobill,
I do not have any specific information on Pamir...sorry.
Since you already built two models, my advice for building a scale sailing ship with operating sails and other features (like guns), is to build it as big as you can practically transport, launch and sail.
That gives room for servos, scale detail, large batteries, etc.
Then again, a lot can be done in a smaller model,too.
The reason I focus so much on firing guns is that all the other systems on Syren operate very well and don't need any more work now. The black powder guns are the most popular feature at boat shows...kids want to see the guns fire over and over. Black powder guns are only one shot....so I have been focusing on safer, easier, multiple shot guns.
Last edited by DanL; Aug 29, 2016 at 12:08 PM.
Aug 29, 2016, 12:04 PM
Registered User
DanL's Avatar
Thread OP

Simulated Broadside System - part 5


Yet another post on firing guns...

Here's an outdoor vid of the prototype testing.
Gun nine is out of commission.
Battery power use is minimal and the guns can be fired constantly for well over 30 times before more smoke fluid needs to be added.
The latest change to the approach is using a small air pump to charge a pressurized bladder, and then channel an air blast to each gun through a small solenoid valve. Works pretty well.
Next steps are to get this prototype system miniaturized and installed, and to get electronic controls (vs the current custom rotary switch} . Each gun needs to have a separate air line, so plumbing will be the hardest part to do.
Syren Simulated Fire Prototype (1 min 45 sec)
Aug 30, 2016, 07:16 AM
Registered User
Gammon Iron's Avatar
OUTSTANDING!!!

I see two paths forward:

1) a movie company makes you an offer to be their technical advisor for a fleet action swashbuckler

2) someone sees the Napoleonic business opportunity and invests in a commercial outlet for all your hard work
Last edited by Gammon Iron; Aug 31, 2016 at 07:14 PM.
Aug 30, 2016, 09:09 AM
Registered User
could you sync. a recording of cannon fire with that very convincing display?.......
Aug 30, 2016, 08:36 PM
Registered User
DanL's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by yancovitch
could you sync. a recording of cannon fire with that very convincing display?.......
Yep...plan to use a big subwoofer (from battery powered boombox) to generate the BOOM sounds. But it won't be on the boat...it will be on shore or in the kayak with me. The deep sound and echo can come from just about anywhere and it will still seem to come from the visual clue of the smoking guns. The sound will be triggered thru a receiver in the speaker setup. When the Tx sends the firing signal, it will activate both the gun firing sequence on the boat and the sound track in the speaker setup.
Sound from the boat itself just doesn't work.
Aug 31, 2016, 12:12 PM
Registered User
i guess th sound coming from the boat would be delayed too much, depending how far away you were on the shore......but maybe that's how it would be in real life....i remember the opening of master and commander
Dec 04, 2016, 02:51 AM
Registered User
DanL's Avatar
Thread OP

Cleaning up Residual Brace Slack in a Sliding Servo System


A minor modification of the sliding servo system can eliminate all brace slack.
The sliding servo approach for brace control works very well to compensate for the change in total brace length that occurs between the fully braced and the squared yard positions. It also compensates somewhat for the differential port/starboard brace tension, but not completely. This is because the servo power at the maximum end of travel (fully braced yard), will nearly always be greater in pulling a brace than the power of the opposing tensioning springs as they expand and relax when the yard nears full brace.
The result is that the non-pulled brace ends up having some residual slack that can result in the brace "falling out" of it's track on the drum, or just simply looking bad as that brace sags limply from the yardarm.
Approaches to control this residual P/S slack mentioned in the past and/or being currently discussed include use of weights, weighted levers, springs, vertically vs horizontally mounted drums, "trolley" rigged brace blocks, bungee brace pendants and other approaches.
Weights, loose braces hanging from vertical drums, and other approaches that allow random brace movement (swinging weights, tangling slack braces, etc) are less than ideal. Levers and springs can work, but add more hardware. Trolley rigged brace blocks work but are visible and non-prototypical. Elastic bungee has it's place, but weakens and wears out in about a year or less from stretch cycling breakdown, weather and UV exposure.
Taking the concept of trolleying brace blocks below deck may be a simple way to clean up residual brace slack. Sliding servos have a brace guide plate adjacent to the drum tracks. Holes in the plate guide the braces directly into the proper drum tracks.
If the guide plate is set up with a trolleying brace guide, at least an inch of residual slack can be eliminated. The drawings should be self-explanatory. They are scale drawings using estimated model dimensions to determine the effect on differential brace length.
Basically, as one brace (the pulled brace) tightens, it pulls the brace guide block to it's own side. The slack, non-pulled brace, also in the same brace guide block, gets pulled to the opposite side, increasing its run distance and therefore "taking up" any slack.
The drawing indicates that about an inch of slack can be taken up. That should be more than enough to eliminate any residual slack issues.

The second drawing shows a concept for making the sliding brace guide, turning the guide "button" from delrin rod.
Third drawing shows simplest mod....if your braces run from bulwark pinrails, just add trolley guide block to servo assembly.
Fourth drawing is how Syren will be set up for test, with brace fairleads next to mast.

FOLLOW-UP:
I did a quick, more simple test to reduce residual brace slack. Two screw eyes were soldered together and use to harness each pair of braces as shown. The fifth drawing shows (only one brace pair shown) what was tested and seen as the yards were rotated.
The biggest thing I found out though was that the sliding servos were not operating quite right. They can, alone, take out all slack if they are adjusted right. I changed to longer, slightly stronger slide springs and readjusted servo travel on the Tx and was able to get the sliding servos to pretty much eliminate all slack. One thing that caused a lot of slack was having the servo rotate too far at the end of travel (yard fully braced). The force of the "over-pull" on the pulling brace causes the servo to slide forward against the springs causing slack in the non-pulling brace. Another thing that I think was causing slack was that the brace lines stretched over time and needed to be "snugged-up". End result - after changing the springs and readjusting the slide servo system, there was very little slack in the braces even at full yard rotation, and certainly not enough to have the braces fall out of their drums tracks.
Last edited by DanL; Dec 17, 2016 at 09:12 AM. Reason: added drawing, followup test result
Jun 05, 2017, 06:35 AM
Registered User
Gammon Iron's Avatar

How to get servos to turn 3.5 times.


So, I'm slowly getting back to NIAGARA by working on my privateer schooner. I'm going to use one of the HS- 785HB winch servos. I've hooked it up . But, it is only giving me the standard 90 degree rotation. How do I get it to turn 3.5 times?
Last edited by Gammon Iron; Jun 06, 2017 at 12:05 PM.
Jun 06, 2017, 07:02 AM
Registered User
DanL's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gammon Iron
So, I'm slowly getting back to NIAGARA by working on my privateer schooner. I'm going to use one of the HS- 785HB winch servos. I've hooked it up . But, it is only giving me the standard 90 degree rotation. How do I get it to turn 3.5 times.
What channel are you using to control the servo?
The HS-785 can rotate up to 8 times depending on the signal range output by the Tx. Most Tx's will rotate the HS-785 just over 4 turns. Your DX8 should rotate the servo at least 4 turns. Go to the setup menu and check the settings for the channel you are using. Check to see that "travel" is set to the maximum range. Maybe it was previously set just for 90 degrees?
Jun 06, 2017, 06:32 PM
Damp and Dizzy member
Brooks's Avatar
Servo doubler will change my 90deg arm servos into 180deg arm servos. Don't have any winches to try it on, but if you need 8 turns, maybe it would work.
Jun 07, 2017, 06:54 PM
Registered User
Gammon Iron's Avatar
Problem solved!

I'm using the AIL channel. While writing a response about the continuing problem. I finally noticed I was using the WRONG servo. I was using the HS-815BB instead of the HS-785HB servo. I guess I just reached for the largest new servo I had and did not notice it was the wrong number.

The correct HS- 785HB winch servo travels about 2.5 times in each direction from mid-point or over 5 times from extreme one way to the other.

I do have this video (with the wrong servo) that does show great rudder travel.
War of 1812 Privateer, 1/24 scale sailboat model, RC, scratch built, RENOVATION (1 min 9 sec)


This is a great example of my very low level of electronic ability. I'll now go munch on some humble pie
Last edited by Gammon Iron; Jun 08, 2017 at 06:33 AM.


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
any good how to books for r/c helis? adam_jorgensen Electric Heli Talk 4 Mar 31, 2002 12:05 PM
Moderators needed for R/C Groups! Andy W Electric Plane Talk 1 Mar 21, 2002 06:44 AM
Pull/Pull System for r/c Patrick in WI Electric Plane Talk 4 Mar 18, 2002 02:18 PM
Rechargeable Alkaline batteries good for R/C packs??? TopGun Power Systems 2 Sep 27, 2001 11:03 PM