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May 13, 2009, 03:47 PM
I Love My Ember!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
First off, I'm NOT trying to make a bird,or bird-like plane... just trying out the wing shape ... and Not trying to set any speed records.... Just a simple experiment with FFF... The whole idea is to try it out and learn from it... no pre-conceived notions... just observations/testing...
For those wishing a bird plane ,there are many good bird designs already published/flown... successfully...
Was just giving my .02 on the design from an objective view, and give a couple of suggestions for making it work, and why most planes don't have that kind of wing. It is more complex - that being said, I say go for it. I personally have a design on the drawing board for a model of EDI from the movie Stealth, a delta with short wingspan, and crazy anhedral, so I make no judgments in regards to someone's tastes in design. I say build it and see what happens - I don't think a KFm foil is going to stiffen it up enough, but I am curious to see results. DOEEETTTT!!!111!!!111!!
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May 13, 2009, 05:28 PM
For the Horde!!
the mad hatter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebergy
Was just giving my .02 on the design from an objective view, and give a couple of suggestions for making it work, and why most planes don't have that kind of wing. It is more complex - that being said, I say go for it. I personally have a design on the drawing board for a model of EDI from the movie Stealth, a delta with short wingspan, and crazy anhedral, so I make no judgments in regards to someone's tastes in design. I say build it and see what happens - I don't think a KFm foil is going to stiffen it up enough, but I am curious to see results. DOEEETTTT!!!111!!!111!!
I think that a Km will stiffen the wing if its going to be a failry short span, it should need much if any bracing. If not just add a bamboo skewer or two to help.
May 13, 2009, 10:24 PM
My plans are in my blog
Rusty-Gunn's Avatar
Perhaps using a bit more then 50% KFm on top, at the root, might assist with stiffening, then blend it to 50% as it goes past the first bend.
May 14, 2009, 06:39 AM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
At my age , I'm not worried about stiffening!!!! I'll just fly it nice and slow...
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
May 14, 2009, 09:31 AM
treefinder
springer's Avatar
To those with concerns about flutter, my 42" BluBaby sometimes flies with a 48" span wing , it's the KFC (aptly named for a birdlike wing ) that is undercambered with first 40% doubled on bottom. The only reinforcement is skewers all along Leading edge and a center skewer at TE to handle rubberband mounting. She's rock solid under all the goofy maneuvers I can give her (Does exhibit "variable dihedral" in really tight loop, tho). I think the camber further stiffens the wing beyond the thickness adds. So my .02 is that the simple KFM will be plenty strong for easy flying and if you get adventuresome add some camber into the mix (via bendfoam jig, of course!) Unfortunately it would seem that doing that will force a joint at the "crank" in the wing. (unless you have even more enhancements for the bendfoam jig than we know about! )

It will be interesting to see where you go with this!
May 14, 2009, 12:16 PM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
"What we have here is a serious lack of communication" ... on my part... My Bad!!! What I meant to suggest in the title was, this is what a birds wings LOOKED like at high speed.....I didn't mean to imply that I'd be trying to fly it at high speed... you guys know I'm into testing various wing shapes... we just wanted to see how this shape would fly, and whether it was any better then the rest...
I'm sorry if I disappointed the high speed guys with this misleading title ...

Just wanting sorta' half bird ,half Dart... you know !!!
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
May 14, 2009, 12:22 PM
I Love My Ember!
Then build it!!! You should make it with fat elevons at the wing tips.

I don't think you were the one that mislead anything, I think it was just a series of ideas throughout the thread that implied that maybe highspeed would be an application of this design, which I don't doubt is is possible given the proper design.

Mike
May 14, 2009, 12:38 PM
treefinder
springer's Avatar
I tend to agree with Mike, no misleading on your part. My comments were to agree the simple kfm will add lots of strength to the wing, and that with the crank in the wing, that strength might be needed not so much for flutter, but just to keep the whole wing in one plane while flying.
May 14, 2009, 12:57 PM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
Good to know everybody's not PO'd at me ... I'm working on it...
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
May 14, 2009, 01:00 PM
Registered User
earlwb's Avatar
I love the thoughts, ideas and design. Good ideas here.

But in thinking about when a bird dives. They pretty much try to turn themselves into a streamlined rock, with their wings folded in tight against their body. A oblong streamlined river rock would come close. it would really go fast towards the ground if you chucked it off the top of a building or cliff too. But since a bird doesn't have the equivalent volume mass density they won't quite get to go that fast. eventually wind resistance increases enough to cause the drag to set a speed limit on the birds.

But a curvy anhedral, dihedral wing design plane would look really good though. It sort of gets into what Burt Rutan designs for planes.
May 14, 2009, 01:46 PM
I Love My Ember!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
Good to know everybody's not PO'd at me ... I'm working on it...
Hurry up, I need something interesting to build after I am done with my Index
May 15, 2009, 06:16 AM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
Earl, Yes !!! Agree!!!
Bergy,OK!
Drew the HSB shape freehand (pretty close) onto a large sheet of heavy paper ... Cut out a half template .. the wing half was 14.5", giving us a 29" bird...I did add a small fin to the body bottom rear(fuse).... working...
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
May 15, 2009, 09:47 AM
I Love My Ember!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
Earl, Yes !!! Agree!!!
Bergy,OK!
Drew the HSB shape freehand (pretty close) onto a large sheet of heavy paper ... Cut out a half template .. the wing half was 14.5", giving us a 29" bird...I did add a small fin to the body bottom rear(fuse).... working...
You should do a swept back swallow tail for it...
May 15, 2009, 11:42 AM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
Got a V tail!!!! Could sweep it back... ???
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
May 15, 2009, 05:05 PM
My plans are in my blog
Rusty-Gunn's Avatar
Yeah, sweep it back, as a V-tail system.


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