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Apr 29, 2009, 05:04 PM
heyEJ
heyEJ
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Being Scammed by jtlsf5- Jim Thomas from Folsam, CA


I am currently in the process of being scammed by Jim Thomas aka jtlfs5. Jim has friends here at RCG that blindly defend him. I suspect that he is friendly with the admins because My previous threads keep moving, closing, and being edited. This public forum is the only way to influence Jim to be responsible.

Summary:
I was solicited by jtlsf5- aka Jimthomas from Folsam CA, to hire him to un-cover then re-cover the wings repair some wing warp and build BOT for me. I don't know Jim but he has been very active here on these forums for some time. His experience coupled with his enthusiasm and policy that I will only have to pay after i am satisfied won him my business.

Upon mailing my plane to Jim I included a note with my requests that included a request to let me know if he can add spoilers. what i didnt do was tell Jim it was motorized. Upon receipt of the plane, Jim notified me that motor installation would cost extra and "he would be glad to install spoilers if i wanted for an extra cost as well. We agreed on an adjusted price including the spoilers and motor and the building plan, and the payment policy.

Jim had to come out of pocket for a new spinner and connectors for a wiring harness. I offered to advance him half of the build price so he wouldn't be inconvenienced. He turned me down and reminded me of his policy to be paid after the job is complete.

I received a few updates on wing repair and then electronic and radio installation. In a couple of pictures i noticed Jim built in a different type of hinge than we agreed to as well as some possible remaining wing warp and a couple other surprises. I pointed these things out to Jim and he proceed to insult and belittle me. He blamed the choices he made on me not understanding the language. I expressed disappointment in him for some careless communication as well as him blaming me for everything. Jim thomas from Folsom, CA then change his payment policy to payment up front and is holding my payment as ransom.

My beef with Jim is he broke our build agreement, broke his own payment policy. Showed total unaccountability and revealed himself to be a real bully. I did everything i said i would, Jim did not. At first look it may appear That i am just be a buyer that doesn't want to pay. I assure every one this is not the case.

jtlsf5 has proven himself untrustworthy and i told him i will not expose myself further by sending him a check or M.O. UNLESS he provides a list with pictures of all my gear along with a notarized ransom demand.

he refused

I told him he must use a method with buyer protection, he refused.

So I started both of the following threads to bring this out in the open in hopes the the community will act as a group conscious and get this resolved as best as possible.

First Thread

Second thread

As a result of these threads. Jim Thomas from Folsom, CA then offered to return mail my plane if i paid his out of pocket expense in open forum, I eventually agreed to pay for hi out of pocket with no buyer protection in an MO. and THEN he refused it anyway because he changed his mind. He continues to break his word.

I have recieved many very nasty and vile and threatening emails from Jim Thomas and posted them on the previous forum and then Jim complains about his own cursing in his own qouted emails and i receive warning points.
Jim has accused me of making a "myriad of demands", Changing plans and sending incessant emails. All of which are absolutely false he's offered no evidence- just bs that might sound like hes he's bee hassled.

His newest ransom demand is-

1. that i send payment in full and then he returns the plane
OR
2. He disassembles my plane and abandons it at a ups store.

My response
Option 1 is the only option- Per his first payment policy breach. I will pay Jim Thomas from Folsam, CA. All he has to do is provide a notarized list of inventory with pictures of my gears condition with his ransom demands.

Option 2 dissambling my plane and dumping it at a UPS store is not a real option. It cost me $102 to pack and ship it to him- $62 to ship and $40 for ups to pack and box it.(yes i should have packed it myself!) It will cost about the same $62 to get it back. Net result I paid $164 to receive a plane that was once brand new with who knows what damage from from his spiteful disassembling. along with who knows what missing peices and equipment.

These forums are the only protection i have from dirtbag tactics. So I encourage you all to follow along and act as a group conscious to get this resolved.

BEFORE ANYONE POSTS " JUST PAY HIM"
understand that he has been offered this multiple times but ONLY if I have some form of protection, like Paypal or a notarized inventory list with pictures or another method that he proposes that offers buyer protection

i think this only reasonable considering he breached so many agreements and i have breached none. I even went far enough to trust him with over $1000 worth of gear.


Please help with suggestions a phone call to Jim or public scrutiny to just do the right thing.
Last edited by heyEJ; Apr 29, 2009 at 07:26 PM.
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Apr 29, 2009, 05:14 PM
heyEJ
heyEJ
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Jims original offer


original contact from Jim- note his payment policy on the bottom


Quote:
Originally Posted by jtlsf5
Eric,
I just happened to be cruising around and saw your post. I have extensive experience with sailplanes, from sticks to full composite with everything in between including full composite scratch built.

You can view one of my build threads at:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=818797.

Soaring bio at: http://www.silentflight.org/lsf-treasurer.shtml

I've sold a number of planes here on RCG and could dig back through for refs if necessary.
What have you got and are interested in having built.

Jim Thomas


Quote:
Originally Posted by heyEJ
Hi Jim,
thanks for your pm. I have a few arf's that need building. One that i am most confused about what to do is a 3m bird of time by pb models that i have. It is different than most BOT's that you see (has ailerons and slight dihedral). I bought it new but it came with some wing warp. It is a four piece wing and i would like the two centers fiberglassed together. Looking for someone with wide building skills because I really like that plane and want to fly it and don't think i could find another ARF like this one

been thinking about sending it to someone to build or sending out and buying the wings from a kit.

Do you think there is anything you can do for it.?
Straightening, glassing and recovering i think.

Thanks Eric J






Eric,
A couple of questions.

First, where is the warp in the wing? If it is in the wingtips, that may be by design, ie washout to help retard tip stall. This would be obvious if both tips are about the same (TE slightly higher than the LE). If not, and the warp isn't extreme, it can be cured by one of two methods. One, wetting the structure (after stripping off the covering) and twisting against the warp while it dries; or two slitting the LE sheeting diagonally, inserting a shim/wedge then reinforcing the repair with a little fiberglass/epoxy.

Second, is the wing bolt on or rubber band on? Either way is pretty easy to join the centers, just depends on whether the fuse would be needed to ensure alignment. Just a matter of permanently installing a joiner (either the original or a strengthened/modified one), butt joining and glassing the result.

Taking a stab at a task list for the repair:
Strip off existing covering 2 hrs
Repair warp 2-4 hours
Joining wing center sections 2 hours
Recovering wing 2 hours

Net 10-12 hours labor plus materials
I would charge $125 for the labor, actual cost for a couple of rolls of covering (unless you supply it), plus $25 to cover miscellaneous materials (glue, wood, fiberglass, epoxy).

Add $50 to install your radio equipment for a buildout beyond the repair, plus shipping each way.

I am in Sacramento, you don't mention where you are, so I assume shipping would be required. Keep in mind that if the main panels are joined, return shipping will be a little more expensive.

Regards,
Jim
(916) *** ****

[QUOTE=heyEJ]Thanks Jim!

The wing warp isn't really obvious. It only really shows when you connect the wing sections because they are not all flush at leading edge. It may only be that the connecting slots are misaligned. The wing is a bolt on. I'm sure you would need the fuse to get it aligned correctly.

If your available to work on this now and i have your word that you'll try to keep the costs down, no references will be needed. Just send me your address and I'll ship VIA ups this week. We can chat when you have a chance to take a look at it.

I am in La Habra, Southern CA. (new home of the Octomom ) So We'll need UPS.

Thanks again,
Eric J

Eric,
Unless there is something really different beyond what we have discussed, I will stay with my estimate. If I see something that looks to be a problem, I'll let you know before starting work. No hidden costs, no surprises.

I will be attending Toledo the weekend of the Apr. 4-5, then away on business until Apr. 10. If you can get the model up here by this weekend, I should be able to have it mostly done, if not completely, by the time I leave on the 3rd. If not, it will get done as soon as I return, and I will have it back to you by Apr. 24.

For anything beyond the wing repair, be sure to include (at the minimum) your servos. Hook them up and center them to your transmitter/receiver before shipping. If you want me to install the RX, battery and balance, include those items too. No need to send the transmitter.

Pick up the covering of your choice and include that too. I find it best to do basic colors, ie any single color top, any single color bottom. You can decorate/trim to suit yourself. Plan on a dark color for the bottom.

In the unlikely case that the wing can't be salvaged, I have a BOT kit I could use as a template to scratch a new one. Again, we would discuss this option before moving on it.

Payment policy is simple. Your obligation is shipping both ways. The labor/supplies portion gets paid on receipt when you are satisfied that you got what you are paying for.

Jim Thomas
Folsom, CA 95630
Apr 29, 2009, 05:21 PM
heyEJ
heyEJ
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another- Jim Thomas aka jtlf5 Victim


You will notice Arrogance in this thread.

Jim actually insists the guy apologize publicly for being tricked. See for your self.

Sailplane Bag
Apr 29, 2009, 05:34 PM
heyEJ
heyEJ
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Jims Payment policy again


This was our amended price qoute based on addition of the spoilers and the motor gear. Without solicitation and out of good will i offered to cover the first half of Jim's price. This time he say's no payment until work is done. A bit different than original warrant, but still in theme of pay after satisfactory receipt of plane.

This is from email (completely unedited)- I highlighted points of interest

4-19
Eric-
Finally got some time to finalize my estimate for the Bird. Here it is, slightly adjusted based on the added motor install and spoilers.

Wing modifications: join main panels, install spoilers, wire routing, recover $150
Equipment install: motor package, radio gear, wire and balance $75
Misc. adhesives, wood, etc. $25
Return shipping TBD

Not much different than the original, just added a bit to cover the added scope (motor, spoilers). Give me a final go ahead and its on.

I already installed the motor mount and reinforcing rails to the wing shoulder. If by chance you don't want to proceed, this bit is on me. I'll send pictures as I get time.

BTW, the spinner you sent is the wrong size, way too big (56mm, a bit over 2"). I would have to cut back just shy of the canopy to match this, which would shorten the nose moment and require a much bigger motor mount. You need a 1.5" diameter spinner for this. I can get one at our LHS (very well stocked), which you would pay for, or you can source.

Regards,
JT


Apr 19
To Jim
Thanks Jim for a very reasonable price estimate, Please proceed.

The kontronik motor i included has a 40mm diameter and a built in fan so keep in mind that it needs room for the wire leads to clear as well as room to breath. I also included a large carbon disc that may be cut to size for a motor mount if necessary. Maybe a 45 or 50mm spinner is appropriate? either way, I will pay for whatever parts you need to complete. if you send me a paypal address i'll make a first installment payment that will cover the first half.

Please let me know.
thx EJ



Apr 20
Eric,
Its underway. Installed the motor mount plate (wooden one) and reinforcing rails for the wing saddle. I will pick up a 38mm spinner for the plane, which is what it will need. No problem with wires since the fuse opens up from the nose back.

On looking critically at the wing, the white material on the wing is not covering, its plastic or vinyl. The giveaway is that it is glued to the ribs, not adhered like covering. As such, it is part of the D-tube structure and should be left intact as much as possible. I have a plan that will obviate the need to strip/recover the mains. I will cut away only what I need on the bottom surfaces only, then glass that portion after joining the mains. This will work fine, as the bottom skin is where the stress of positive G's occurs.

I'm a cash, check or MO kind of guy. Paypal didn't follow their own buyer protection rules which cost me. So, no more $ for paypal from me directly or indirectly (via a transaction with someone else). I don't require any payment until the job is done.
[/B]
Regards,
Jim
Reply
Last edited by heyEJ; Apr 29, 2009 at 07:17 PM.
Apr 29, 2009, 05:51 PM
Trader Rating: 1
Hm, Jim seems to have friends in "high places"' and a knack for getting the bad end of the stick (Eric, the bag guy, paypal). Or, could it be that Jim has a knack for giving the bad end of the stick?

As Jim solicited the transaction, I think it only fair that he resolve any doubt in your favor.

Good luck.
Apr 29, 2009, 05:53 PM
Trader Rating: 204
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
As I predicted in the previous, now closed, threads. Nothing edited and it's still visible. Missed again

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Apr 29, 2009, 07:02 PM
heyEJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty Manfred
Hm, Jim seems to have friends in "high places"' and a knack for getting the bad end of the stick (Eric, the bag guy, paypal). Or, could it be that Jim has a knack for giving the bad end of the stick?

As Jim solicited the transaction, I think it only fair that he resolve any doubt in your favor.

Good luck.
Thanks Mighty

Jim has been repeatedly offered a way to be pre-paid with no risk. He just needs to provide a notarized inventory list w/ pictures and demands.this is necessary minimize my own risk, not eliminate it.

contrary to his initial assertions, He will only accept payment methods where i am at complete risk of losing The plane and my money.

jim Thomas has broken many commitments, I have broken none. Without this forum i would just be another unrepresented victim and he would get a free pass.
Apr 29, 2009, 07:04 PM
Trader Rating: 204
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
MODS! He's being mean to me:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=1041552

Jim petitions the moderaters to make it go away rather than resolve the issue.
Apr 29, 2009, 07:15 PM
Trader Rating: 85
Mt. Dora, Florida
mtdoramike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Wolff
MODS! He's being mean to me:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=1041552

Jim petitions the moderaters to make it go away rather than resolve the issue.

This really doesn't shed a good light on Jim the builder here. He's claiming that the issue is resolved, but how can it be when he still has the plane and all the stuff sent to him. I know things will not be all bubble gum and lollipops once the buyer gets his stuff back, but at least both parties will be somewhat whole again.
Apr 29, 2009, 07:17 PM
Trader Rating: 1
Well, it is "resolved" if he (Jim) is allowed to dictate the terms of the "resolution" (he did say take it or leave it, didn't he?).

How fair is that?
Apr 29, 2009, 07:34 PM
Trader Rating: 5
Registered User
TacoChuck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty Manfred
Well, it is "resolved" if he (Jim) is allowed to dictate the terms of the "resolution" (he did say take it or leave it, didn't he?).

How fair is that?
I see, and heyEJ didn't do the same thing when he said:

Quote:
jtlsf5 has proven himself untrustworthy and i told him i will not expose myself further by sending him a check or M.O. UNLESS he provides a list with pictures of all my gear along with a notarized ransom demand.

he refused

I told him he must use a method with buyer protection, he refused.
Those sound like take it or leave it ultimatums to me, with a little personal attack thrown in for good measure.

I still haven't seen anything from heyEJ about what constituted this breach of contract he keeps on about. Changing the hinges he claims, but provides none of his emails or PM's to show there was an agreement on how hinges should be.

Something about the wing might still have some warp, again with no documented communication about it.

And some vague something about "other surprises"

Quote:
jim Thomas has broken many commitments
And yet you manage to detail none of these "many" broken commitments.

At this point it seems to me like heyEJ is not really trying to get anything actually resolved, but instead is just trying to smear the other person as much as possible, drag this out so as many folks as possible see the threads and make sure to mention the other guy's full name so these threads show up in a google search. And of course Tim Wolf is doing nothing to help either, just trying to punish the guy who sold him a misrepresented bag so he can ask if it was worth the 25 buck refund he didn't get again.
Apr 29, 2009, 07:37 PM
Trader Rating: 2
Untrustworthy 99%-er
Bergwood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Wolff
MODS! He's being mean to me:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=1041552

Jim petitions the moderaters to make it go away rather than resolve the issue.
If ever the need arises to hire someone to build a plane for me, I know who I won't be hiring.

heyEJ, I hope you find a favorable resolution to this problem, whoops, my mistake, it seems it has been resolved already, glad "both" of you came to agreement.

Berg
Apr 29, 2009, 07:43 PM
Trader Rating: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacoChuck
I see, and heyEJ didn't do the same thing when he said:


Those sound like take it or leave it ultimatums to me, with a little personal attack thrown in for good measure.

I still haven't seen anything from heyEJ about what constituted this breach of contract he keeps on about. Changing the hinges he claims, but provides none of his emails or PM's to show there was an agreement on how hinges should be.

Something about the wing might still have some warp, again with no documented communication about it.

And some vague something about "other surprises"


And yet you manage to detail none of these "many" broken commitments.

At this point it seems to me like heyEJ is not really trying to get anything actually resolved, but instead is just trying to smear the other person as much as possible, drag this out so as many folks as possible see the threads and make sure to mention the other guy's full name so these threads show up in a google search. And of course Tim Wolf is doing nothing to help either, just trying to punish the guy who sold him a misrepresented bag so he can ask if it was worth the 25 buck refund he didn't get again.
Well, reasonable people can and do disagree: I disagree with your construction of the events. Certainly, no one is "perfect," but stripping this thing to substance, just who do you believe got the bad end of the stick?

I, for one, don't think it passes the smell test when (1) someone solicits his services to another and (2) then, ultimately, says it's his way or the highway. Coupled with the "bag" transaction, the odor grows even stronger.
Apr 29, 2009, 07:51 PM
Trader Rating: 5
Registered User
TacoChuck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty Manfred
Well, reasonable people can and do disagree: I disagree with your construction of the event. Certainly, no one is "perfect," but stripping this thing to substance, just who do you believe got the bad end of the stick?
Frankly, it is impossible to tell from the information across these threads. But I do know who came publicly and in the first sentence of their post called the other a liar, a cheat and a scammer, while presenting no facts as to why this was the case.

You really want to work something out, get your plane back and move on? Try being a little less incendiary and lay out the facts without gratuitous attacks on the other person.

From the conduct of heyEJ so far, I tend to believe jtlsf that a somewhat inexperienced person inadvertently added things on to a project and had expectations that might not have been realistic and/or the builder in question had more knowledge and experience so knew the best way to do something and heyEJ didn't like it. We already know heyEJ didn't realize that a power system would be more work, what else might he not have realized? I chalk it up to nothing more than inexperience, but I can see how it could go south.

And considering his conduct on these repeated threads, I have my doubts as to the tenor of his communications with jtlsf the moment he felt like he was being wronged, which might lead to both of them blowing up a little as they have here.
Apr 29, 2009, 07:55 PM
Trader Rating: 1
Well, there you go-you view it one way, I view it another. How many times have you "lost control" out of frustration? I have, and lived to regret it, but the facts spoke for themselves, and, substantively, I think that's the case, here.

Is someone not credible because they get "too" angry, loud or insistant? Does someone forfeit their moral, ethical or contractual rights by being "obnoxious?"

What form should one's protest take?

Is it possible to confuse a person's position with how they state it? Or, how often they state it?

Again, "I" (subjectively) think that SUBSTANTIVELY (stripping away all the fighting, squawking, hissing, biting, etc.) the balance ought to be struck for heyej, even if he does have "unclean" hands. After all, who set this thing in motion, EJ or Jim?
Last edited by Mighty Manfred; Apr 29, 2009 at 08:02 PM.


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