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Apr 27, 2009, 04:36 PM
heyEJ
heyEJ
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Question

Advice on how to deal with a scamming builder


Jim thomas aka jtlsf5 solicited me to build my sailplane. We agreed to the build and terms. Part of the agreement was i pay AFTER return delivery if I am satisfied with his build.

Jim did not live up to his end of the build agreement and after i complained he is now holding my plane as hostage. ( i NEVER said i wouldnt pay) He insists on a money order in advance of returning my plane. Aside from dealing with someone who is now a known liar and cheat, i have serious doubts that my plane and spare motor and esc's and other unused parts will be returned after he recieves a money order. He has not lived up to any part of his word and is accusing me of not being trustworthy. He insists on me paying with a method that does not allow for buyer protection. I left things with him that i want pictures of all parts installed and uninstalled along with a notarized demand stating his ransom demands as a start.

As Jim Thomas From Folsom CA chimes in I will begin adding email threads and pms that show will give him great opportunities to prove he is not did not do a bait and switch.

Anyone versed in this please advise.

I wish i hired Dave Hauch when i had the chance.
Last edited by heyEJ; Apr 28, 2009 at 10:38 PM.
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Apr 27, 2009, 04:42 PM
Trader Rating: 241
Cumulus Altimus
FASTBEN's Avatar
I think you need to post in a different section.
Ben

https://www.rcgroups.com/trader-talk-269/
Apr 27, 2009, 04:43 PM
Trader Rating: 89
Registered User
utcadman's Avatar
Sorry to hear about this...before things spiral out of control one approach that I would look at using is finding someone you know and trust local to the builder... Make sure your party has the ability to pay him and leave with your stuff. Then have him, the trusted party send it to you...

Simple enough and then you have your eyes on the ground so to speak...

Jim
Apr 27, 2009, 04:53 PM
heyEJ
heyEJ
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Good idea but i dont know anyone near Folsom, CA.
Apr 27, 2009, 05:53 PM
Trader Rating: 274
Registered User
jtlsf5's Avatar
Eric,
Do you really want to go public with this? You're not the pure innocent you make yourself out to be. I'm trying to settle this amiably, and you seem to be stuck in righteous indignant.

You are welcome to come claim your property anytime you please. I never said you couldn't. I wish you had selected someone else too.

For the record I originally offered to help you fix the wing on your ARF. You escalated it into a build with no mention of all the electric motor stuff you sent, then proceeded to send all kinds of excess stuff, none of it at my request. Its all waiting for you to pick up, or for us to come to a reasonable agreement and it will ship back to you.

What more do you want, or is the fact that I wouldn't just capitulate and do all the myriad little other things that you kept adding to the project the ultimate reason that you are resorting to publicizing this dispute? I guess thats your right, but please don't think you can just start dumping e-mails as proof of everything that occurred. I will be glad to fill in the phone call parts that complement this.

JT
Last edited by jtlsf5; Apr 27, 2009 at 06:02 PM.
Apr 27, 2009, 06:18 PM
Trader Rating: 1
Yikes!
Apr 27, 2009, 06:44 PM
Trader Rating: 204
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtlsf5
Eric,
Do you really want to go public with this? You're not the pure innocent you make yourself out to be. I'm trying to settle this amiably, and you seem to be stuck in righteous indignant.

You are welcome to come claim your property anytime you please. I never said you couldn't. I wish you had selected someone else too.

For the record I originally offered to help you fix the wing on your ARF. You escalated it into a build with no mention of all the electric motor stuff you sent, then proceeded to send all kinds of excess stuff, none of it at my request. Its all waiting for you to pick up, or for us to come to a reasonable agreement and it will ship back to you.

What more do you want, or is the fact that I wouldn't just capitulate and do all the myriad little other things that you kept adding to the project the ultimate reason that you are resorting to publicizing this dispute? I guess thats your right, but please don't think you can just start dumping e-mails as proof of everything that occurred. I will be glad to fill in the phone call parts that complement this.

JT
Quoted because Jim has a habit of editing posts.

Anyone that disagrees with Jim is "indignant", unreasonable, and just plain wrong. Good luck dealing with this guy. You will have better luck convincing a mud fence to stay up in a thunderstorm. You'll soon see a couple of his "buds" white knighting in his defense and your posts will start getting reported left and right. Notice how the problem is "your fault" in the quote above. Observe how Jim and his buds simply ignore the facts in the thread linked below. At no time are the pictures acknowledged or problems with the bag addressed. I'm just an $^%&&@$ trying to smear his good name.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=944469
Apr 27, 2009, 07:04 PM
Trader Rating: 5
Registered User
TacoChuck's Avatar
Tim: I don't think it helps anyone to just throw gas on the fire. Let these two try and work it out just like you tried to work it out over the bag.

As to the original post in this thread, it is sorely lacking for any real information, just assertions that one party didn't live up to their end of the bargain with no description of how the other person didn't live up to the bargain. Plus pretty harsh name calling. In my opinion it should be reported as multiple personal attacks and I don't think your post is too far from a personal attack either, it is certainly not germane to the issue at hand.

It is one thing to come here and say this is what we agreed to, this is what the person did or didn't do and that is why I feel like I am being ripped off and what you should look out for in dealing with this person. It is quite another thing to come here and give no facts or information and just call the other person some pretty harsh names, repeatedly.

I'm not 'buds' with anyone, but with what has been said so far, jtlsf5's version of events sounds more reasonable if for no other reason than the original poster provided zero information about the transactional problem at all.
Apr 27, 2009, 07:04 PM
Trader Rating: 82
Detail Freak
target's Avatar
Jim-

What on earth do you do to attract these guys??

Target

PS. It sounds to me like Jim T was trying to help you out with a wing repair, and you decided he would just finish the rest of the plane without asking!
You've stepped over a fine line.
Apr 27, 2009, 07:05 PM
Trader Rating: 274
Registered User
jtlsf5's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Wolff
Quoted because Jim has a habit of editing posts.

Anyone that disagrees with Jim is "indignant", unreasonable, and just plain wrong. Good luck dealing with this guy. You will have better luck convincing a mud fence to stay up in a thunderstorm. You'll soon see a couple of his "buds" white knighting in his defense and your posts will start getting reported left and right. Notice how the problem is "your fault" in the quote above. Observe how Jim and his buds simply ignore the facts in the thread linked below. At no time are the pictures acknowledged or problems with the bag addressed. I'm just an $^%&&@$ trying to smear his good name.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=944469

So nice to see the pot still calling the kettle black. Still bottom feeding, eh? And of course you have all the facts...
Apr 27, 2009, 07:07 PM
Trader Rating: 274
Registered User
jtlsf5's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by target
Jim-

What on earth do you do to attract these guys??

Target

PS. It sounds to me like Jim T was trying to help you out with a wing repair, and you decided he would just finish the rest of the plane without asking!
You've stepped over a fine line.
Target, I wish I knew...
Apr 27, 2009, 07:13 PM
Trader Rating: 0
TEAM FUTABA TEAM DURALITE
mithrandir's Avatar
is this RCU????!!!???!!
Apr 27, 2009, 07:21 PM
Trader Rating: 85
Mt. Dora, Florida
mtdoramike's Avatar
Well the bag issue has come and gone, but the plane building issue could have been easily avoided.

1. Always get everything down in writing first before any work is started regarding what is to be built, approximate time frame involved, how will the final payment be made and when and any change orders will cost extra.

2. Always or and by the way ALWAYS get a deposit up front, which should be a minimum of 1/4 and a maximum of 1/2 the price of the finished piece before any work begins.

3. NEVER and I mean NEVER agree to shipping out a commissioned piece without final payment being paid.

4. communication is the key. Agree on weekly photo updates through email and phone calls right up until the item is finished.

I have built and sold several ship models over the years and have done several commissioned pieces and have always followed these rules and have never had a problem. If buyer doesn't agree to these terms then do yourself a favor and walk away from it.

This won't help you with this situation, but keep it in mind for future commissions.
Apr 28, 2009, 07:47 AM
Trader Rating: 274
Registered User
jtlsf5's Avatar

My Final Response E-mailed to Eric Johnson:


I came to a decision last night. You will be excised from my life by next week. I will no longer participate in any of your cyberterrorist attacks, will no longer answer any of your e-mails, will no longer take a phonecall from you. You are like a cancer and the only cure is surgery and chemotherapy.

By Thursday of this week you may decide between two options, no other is acceptable. I will accept one e-mail with your choice, or option two goes into effect by default if you don't respond:

One, you will come up with a suitable, mutually agreeable conclusion to this charade that you have created. This would involve closing your smear thread with a suitable apology, full payment for services rendered and you will receive a plane ready to program to a transmitter and fly.

Two, barring that I will remove any item that I purchased or was supplied from my shop or personal supplies. I will not do anything that will compromise the structural integrity of the plane, though it will no longer be ready to fly on receipt. You will make arrangements to have the box picked up on Monday, May 4 by UPS. If it is not picked up by 500 pm, it will be delivered to a local UPS shipper with your name and the local UPS store address that you previously supplied attached. I will e-mail the phone number of the store that the box was delivered to. It will be your responsibility to contact the store and arrange for the return shipment. You will owe me nothing further for my time or trouble.

If you don't like these choices, I don't care. If you want to keep harping on your version of history, I don't care. You just aren't worth the time or trouble, and I no longer care about your side of this, nor do I have one iota of sympathy for you.

You won't have much luck finding another reputable builder. Many are my friends, and they have been alerted. Goodbye and I will be glad to be rid of you.
Apr 28, 2009, 07:54 AM
Trader Rating: 1
Double yikes!


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