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Nov 20, 2009, 02:12 PM
Registered User
icebear's Avatar
Welcome John, and I agree with brakar, this is a good place for discussions even if the debate can run off course at times (to put it mildly).

I also agree with cmoulder - I have been a happy and frequent PP user for 4 years now and I like the product and would welcome an updated version that would allow for programmable altitude and why not datalogging (please!).

It is with autopilots like guitars; - How many can you have? Just one more!

/Bjorn
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Nov 24, 2009, 11:39 AM
Registered User
Yes, I've been warned that there are a few aggeressive people on this forum and I plan to just ignore them. I think most of the adult readers recognize BS when they see it.

UNAV isn't intentionally limiting features to restrict anyone's fun? I was just pointing out the reality of US airspace regulations. If someone wants to bend the regulations, that's their business and we don't want to hear about it. As to specific features like programmable altitude and speed, those are available on the UNAV3500 autopilot which sells for $3000. I think, what you are really talking about is the price / performance value of these autopilots. Picopilot may be simple but at $550, it's still the lowest priced, ready-to-fly autopilot available. I've noticed that some of the start-up businesses spend a lot of time talking about their features. I'd like to point out that the most important feature of an autopilot is: RELIABILITY ! Besides, many experienced UAV operators often complain that a lot of the features on UAV autopilot systems are not very useful.

UNAV has been receiving emails and calls from Adrupilot owners and the most common question has been: "how stable (reliable) is the Picopilot firmware ?". The second most common question is: "does PICOPILOT require any programming or soldering". Answer: No, Picopilot is a ready-to-fly autopilot and doesn't require any programming or soldering skills and the Picopilot firmware is very stable. I checked the source code and the last update to the NAV firmware was over two years ago. Again, when it comes to autopilots, reliability is most important feature and this is one case where "old" is a good thing.
Last edited by John_Suggs; Nov 24, 2009 at 12:04 PM.
Nov 24, 2009, 02:58 PM
Registered User
brakar's Avatar
John, first of all welcome to this forum from me too!

In my view, people are not aggressive her, on the contrary I think they are mostly committed, and futher on, most often quite welcomming to engage in constructive dialogues. But it is worth to notice that a few of them have invested enormous amounts of time and effort in what they are doing, (sometimes developimg products competing to yours), so it is to expected they do not appreciate lightweigt chritisism very much.

Btw, I don't think BS is a very common characteristic by anyone at this forum.
Nov 24, 2009, 04:03 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by brakar
John, first of all welcome to this forum from me too!


Btw, I don't think BS is a very common characteristic by anyone at this forum.
Yes welcome John, but if you look back through this and other posts you will clearly see that there has been an unusual ammount of disenchantment toward UNAV, can so many people with genuine gripes be accused of talking BS? I also think that most of those griping, secretly hold a lot of respect and admiration for Picopilot and what has been achieved with it, I certainly do so while were on the subjet of BS, take a look at post 256 for a more acurate description of the phrase

The majority of users on here have a passionate interest toward any autopilot, regardless of which company made it and picopilot certainly took undeserved flack for the management personality dissorders that surfaced post sale

Good luck with your new position John and I look forward to seeing continued success with picopilot

John Bush
Nov 25, 2009, 01:39 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by spitfiremk9
if you look back through this and other posts you will clearly see that there has been an unusual ammount of disenchantment toward UNAV management personality dissorders that surfaced post sale Good luck with your new position John and I look forward to seeing continued success with picopilot
John Bush
Thanks for the forum history John. Maybe "BS" was a poor choice but I'm an engineer not a politician.

Yes, I've looked at this thread in it's entirety as well as several other old threads. And I've received several private briefings on the subject. I've been active on many other forums over the years and in my opinion, this one has had an unusually high level of hostility. I don't agree with you that it's been a simple case of customer "disenchantment". I've also read through many of the threads on DIY and I've come to the conclusion that a lot of the so-called disenchantment was actually a coordinated campaign orchestrated by Chris Anderson at DIY.

Here's some text I copied from a DIY post back in February 2008:
"We have a couple of them <picopilots> and we've found that once you've gotten over the slightly tricky setup, they're reliable and easy to use" - Chris Anderson

I noticed that his opinion of Picopilot started to change in later posts, coincidentally around the time he started promoting his own autopilot (Adrupilot). You can draw your own conclusions, maybe it was due to a personality dissorder (Anderson's), I'm not a Psychiatrist either.
Last edited by John_Suggs; Nov 25, 2009 at 02:01 PM.
Nov 25, 2009, 02:38 PM
Chris Anderson
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Suggs
I've also read through many of the threads on DIY and I've come to the conclusion that a lot of the so-called disenchantment was actually a coordinated campaign orchestrated by Chris Anderson at DIY.

Here's some text I copied from a DIY post back in February 2008:
"We have a couple of them <picopilots> and we've found that once you've gotten over the slightly tricky setup, they're reliable and easy to use" - Chris Anderson

I noticed that his opinion of Picopilot started to change in later posts, coincidentally around the time he started promoting his own autopilot (Adrupilot). You can draw your own conclusions, maybe it was due to a personality dissorder (Anderson's), I'm not a Psychiatrist either.
Wow. So that's the way you want to introduce yourself here? Come right out and make an enemy? Well, you're certainly working for the right company.

BTW, my disenchantment with UNAV came about after those initial posts, once I tried to do more than the basics with Picopilot. Then I discovered both the limitations of the products and the customer contempt of Dave Perry. It was all downhill from there.

The reason we started the ArduPilot project was because of our dismay with UNAV, not the other way around.

The fact that you think that all the ill will here towards UNAV is "orchestrated" by me does not bode well for the company's customer relations going forward. You've got a bigger problem than one unhappy customer.
Last edited by zlite; Nov 25, 2009 at 07:37 PM.
Nov 26, 2009, 02:53 AM
Gaftopher
Gary Mortimer's Avatar
Well this guys not Chris Anderson and he to built his own autopilot and returned his UNAV product.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...1&postcount=24

I don't personally use an Ardupilot, but thats because I'm not really clever enough to put one together. As time passes thats changing, I am a supporter of the project though.

This is another great open source project https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...51820&page=143 I don't have one of these because I struggle to spell Paparazzi.

Like most people here I did contact Dave Perry several years ago and thought, maybe not, instead I started with an RCAP3 from Eladio with alt hold, still available, still does just the same and I received fantastic help from Eladio and the group, it was a fun group thing.

I now fly Attopilot and have just stepped in from the sun after my third flight of the day. Its a reliable mature thermopile based unit with 3D waypoints and probably just as important speed control via a pitot tube. Only a couple of hundred dollars more than UNAVs offering.

I am sort of sorry I wrote that blatent advert, but with such character attacks being put out I feel I can.

Its important to speak to people online as if they were stood in front of you.

I will welcome you John but I think you should be a little more circumspect with your opinions.

G
Nov 26, 2009, 05:10 PM
SlowStick Test Pilot
patrickegan's Avatar
This community really needs more unity.... Hear me singing Kumbaya...
Nov 26, 2009, 05:55 PM
Outta Sight
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickegan
This community really needs more unity.... Hear me singing Kumbaya...
Yeah we really need a big piano we can all stand around, holding hands and swaying from side to side.
Nov 27, 2009, 12:07 AM
Gaftopher
Gary Mortimer's Avatar
Ah but I don't want to sing Kumbaya or hold hands, I would rather we all meditated.
Nov 27, 2009, 01:26 AM
SlowStick Test Pilot
patrickegan's Avatar
I only meditate when I'm drinking
Nov 27, 2009, 08:05 PM
Registered User
brakar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by John Suggs
Yes, I've looked at this thread in it's entirety as well as several other old threads. And I've received several private briefings on the subject. I've been active on many other forums over the years...
Fair enough. Lets only hope those forums were mainly about tap-dancing, choire-singing, piano-playing, meditation or such, not black-magic or woodo - or several of us might find ourselves in deep shi#.

brakar
Nov 27, 2009, 09:15 PM
SlowStick Test Pilot
patrickegan's Avatar
^^ Hee,hee
Nov 28, 2009, 08:03 AM
UAV Integrations
I gotta chime in as a professional lurker that I'm glad to see you guys lightening up here...ya crack me up!
Nov 28, 2009, 01:39 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by zlite
BTW, my disenchantment with UNAV came about after those initial posts, once I tried to do more than the basics with Picopilot. Then I discovered both the limitations of the products and the customer contempt of Dave Perry. It was all downhill from there.
I don’t think you’re in any position to criticize other businesses Chris. From what I’ve read, your Ardupilot has had a very poor customer success rate. By some accounts less than a 10% of Ardu customers have flown it autonomously! It’s no wonder we’ve been selling Picopilots to former Ardupilot owners.


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