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Mar 21, 2009, 09:18 AM
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Ace 1/2A Pacer Conversion


Hello all! I am getting back into the hobby after about a 4 year hiatus; my how things progress! I've got an Ace R/C 1/2A Pacer that I am contemplating building for electric power versus Norvel .061. I have absolutely no experience with this (converting) as far as calculating what brushless motor/battery/ESC/prop combination to use. I'm sure that I can expect impressive performance equal to or exceeding 1/2A power. Estimated AUW of the original was 20-22 oz, I'm sure that could be undercut these days. Also, what are the pros/cons of inrunner vs outrunner (I know what the differences are.)

Also, has anyone else here done this before with this particular airplane, or have any experience with an Ace Pacer? I've got questions concerning how to finish/cover the foam wings (the only foam wings I've ever dealt with were sheeted foam wings on a Sig Mustang control line a long time ago.) I've read about Solarfilm, or the So-Lite but have never used either. Just looking for an easily applied, good looking covering thats not too heavy and works on foam. Thanks in advance!
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Mar 23, 2009, 09:31 PM
Balsa Flies Better!
Hi Sarge

In terms of covering foam wings-if you can get them smooth, a popular trick these days is 0.6 oz glass cloth and water based polyurethane (commonly abbreviated WBPU). Do a little digging- lots of threads on this topic. Not as tough as an epoxy finish, but easier to apply without the worry of too much added weight.

I don't currently own a 1/2A Pacer, but a buddy of mine had one many moons ago- flew on a Medallion .049- and quite nicely.

In terms of electrics- I'm flying a HOB P-51 at 22 oz or so (originally designed for 1/2A)- with minimal lightening and it flies beautifully on a 7.5 x 4 folder with about 225 watts turning it. (3s 2100 pack). I tend to prefer inrunners for the simple reason that I find them sturdier than outrunners and often the slight weight difference is immaterial. I'm using a Mega 16/15/5 but I'd probably look at a Medusa these days if I wanted a nice motor. Cheap stuff- you're on your own. Anything that will swing between a 6.5 and a 7.5 inch prop at 200 watts will work fine. I'd tend toward the larger prop for better vertical.

HTH

Sam
Mar 25, 2009, 08:32 PM
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Roger that Sam, thanks for the info. You're right, there is a plethora of information on glassing with WBPU and I may actually consider that for the wings. If I go with a inrunner, what would you recommend for mounting? I suppose it would be easier with an outrunner (mount using stand-offs,) but I don't think there is room for an outrunner as the nose is pretty sleek. I have seen adjustable aluminum mounts that mount to the firewall; is that what you recommend? I appreciate your help!

Craig
Mar 26, 2009, 08:21 AM
volare est vivere
ray foley's Avatar
hi there from Toledo:

Maxx products has a line of aluminum extruded clam shell heat sinks which make mounting most inrunners quite easy.

caio -rjf
Mar 26, 2009, 10:30 AM
Balsa Flies Better!
Hi Sarge

Another easy way is to delete the firewall (it's not necessary) or just cut most of it out and go to a laser cut nosering mount for Speed 400s. I know that Kirk at New Creations RC carries them. Just make sure that your inrunner has the same bolt pattern and you're careful with the correct length mounting screws. It's what I did on my P-51. On larger aircraft- the mounting system suggested by Ray F. is a good idea- but given the tight confines of the Pacer- it's probably going to be annoying.

Sam
Mar 26, 2009, 11:43 AM
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Thanks Ray/Sam....I think I concur with Sam on this particular application. That's exactly what I need, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I've been reading alot about glassing/WBPU the wings and it sounds very straight forward; I'm sure it will remind me of my dope/tissue/silkspan days! Again, thanks for the inputs gents!

Craig
Mar 26, 2009, 12:06 PM
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Ralph A. D'Amelio's Avatar
Great choice ...first pattern ship I flew back '76 with a cox TD049 this was my 3rd airplane after I taught myself to fly...what a thrilling experience ...brings back lots of memories. Ive been doing electrics for the last 7/8 yrs mostly pusher jets but last yr I acquired a set of Pacer plans and scratch one with a flat airfoil wing.

I'm a big avocate of outrunners and would suggest the grayson 2212-06 with a 6/4 prop its like $40 with esc (I have 3 of them) Plenty of power for the Pacer. (http://www.graysonhobby.com/catalog/...10a546063d0335) Also because of the sleekness of the fuse 1300mah 3 cell lipo. In any case you should determine the motor you will use and size the firewall to it to accept the width of its radial mount & nose ring with an appropriate 1.5" or so spinner.

FG/WBPU is a piece of cake especially if like myself you done silk & dope. Same but no smell or highs. I used this dozens of times and like they said .5 to .75 fg it adds very little wt. Good luck and show us your progress.

DAF.
Last edited by Ralph A. D'Amelio; Mar 26, 2009 at 12:12 PM.
Mar 26, 2009, 04:59 PM
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Ralph,

Thanks for your input. That price-point looks good too btw. I like Sam's advice if I decide to go inrunner; what's the difference between the two in terms of power application? What's the basis of your outrunner preference? My brushless experience in the past has been with helicopters and only with inrunners.

I've always wanted a pacer; I remember one of my pops buddies at the flying field that always flew a 1/2a Pacer and a Top Flite Contender. He's still flying today; that was probably 28 years ago! I'm pretty sure he flew it with a tee-dee; I remember it being pretty loud! I too have probably the same plans you speak of and may scratch one in the end as well. I have the kit though, and I'm not into collecting this sort of thing (wouldn't be the best candidate for that anyway) so I figured I would build it. I grew up building kits with my pop and still enjoy that aspect of the hobby. Thanks again for the input; I'm still in planning mode but will keep posting when the build commences.

Craig
Mar 27, 2009, 03:10 PM
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Ralph A. D'Amelio's Avatar
Craig,

Your welcome. I no expert on electric motors but here's my take. In-runner only thing we had 4-5 yrs ago i.e. speed 400 etc. Hard to mount, ran at high revs had to use gearbox to run larger props to get more thrust which added to the complexity & maint. BL out-runners on the other hand can be radial mounted easily and run the gamut from high revs on down that will fit almost any model. In-runners I use exclusively for EDF. Anyhow....good luck and keep us posted.

DAF
Apr 13, 2009, 02:55 PM
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Ended up ordering the outrunner setup Ralph recommended from Grayson Hobbies for my Pacer. I got out the plans and did some measuring and that motor should work fine clearance wise, I will need approx 20mm or 13/16" standoff from the firewall to the radial mount to get the spacing right (maintain original fuse length at the nose.) I have some aluminum standoffs from a heli project, but I've seen stuff like that pretty cheap at Ace hardware. I think I'm going to run a Graupner 6 x 3 Cam folder with it.

Also, I got my hands on the original August 74 issue of American Aircraft Modeler which contains the original design/build article by Owen Kampen. I was going on 4 years of age when this went to press so it was fun to read through; not very many ARFs in those days! Interestingly, I learned from the article that the Mach None came before the Pacer; I thought it was the other way around. Seems Tom Runge from Ace first conceived/built the Mach None and Owen later collaborated and designed the Pacer. The first Ace R/C add for the kitted version is in that magazine as well. Still an interesting design to me, now just have to make time to build it!

I was looking through my plans today and found this: https://secure.rcstore.com/pcd/eServ...N1YlRlcm09MA== has anyone ever built/flown one of these?

Craig
Apr 19, 2009, 02:41 AM
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Hi guys,

There is a wanted thread over in the for sale gas planes for sale section where the guy is looking for an Ace Pacer. Another guy posted in that thread a link to a website that offers free down loads for Pacer, Mach None, and other plans.

Just thought I'd pass that along in case someone wants to build a Pacer from plans.

Mickydee
Apr 19, 2009, 02:43 AM
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Update:

Dave Fritzski's R/C Plane Page.

Mickydee
Apr 19, 2009, 09:49 AM
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Thanks Mickydee; I have the Pacer kit and Dave's plans as well (his plans utilize a built up wing versus molded foam wings.) In fact, I have most of his plans saved. The building aspect of modeling is what I enjoy the most (got that from my father.)

I recently acquired the entire 1976 run of RCM magazine (Jan-Dec) and seems 1/2A was in full swing that year. Every month featured an article about a new 1/2A RC design; then the following month you would see an ad for the new kitted version by Midwest, GMC, Sure Flite, Ace, etc. I was suprised to see the model called Eyelash (Art Schroeder design) was kitted at one time, as well as a built up version of a scaled down Dirty Birdie dubbed the Baby Birdie. I turned 6 in December of that year and remember looking through my Dad's model magazines but I don't remember any 1/2A planes other than the Ace kits (Pacer, Mach None, etc.) I do remember that the gas crunch was underway, and the price of glow fuel rose significantly as well; I think that was a huge contributing factor to the spike in small 1/2A designs in that period, as well as the miniaturization of radio equipment that had begun. If anyone is interested, I could scan any of the articles (I have two of the Pacer; the original Owen Kampen article from Aug 1974 AAM and a build/fly review in Jan 1976 RCM) and email to you if you PM me. There are others as well, the SST, Mach None, Cheetah, Eyelash, Tee-Dee special, etc.

Craig
Apr 23, 2009, 08:03 PM
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I received the motor from Grayson Hobby; it looks like it will fit the nose of the Pacer without any problem. I just need some stand-off's from the firewall, or I need to make the firewall a balsa former and add another lite ply firewall closer to the nose (to make up the difference.) Looking at the top view, I'll have to carve out a little bit of the balsa blocking/triangle stock that is added to the nose area for rounding/shaping of the corners.

This will also work on the Microjet II (that I mentioned earlier in the post) that I have plans for. This looks like a killer design and has an interesting wing assembly method.

Any thoughts on the Graupner Cam folding props? I received one; seems to be of high quality (has some flashing that will have to be removed and will probably need balancing.) Now that I have settled on a powerplant to use, I think I'm ready to start the build.

Craig
Last edited by SargeAF; Apr 23, 2009 at 10:11 PM.
Apr 24, 2009, 11:05 AM
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SargeAF I hope you plan on posting lots of pics cause I am interested in building htis but am not a scratch builder. I will definitely be following this.


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