Great Planes Escapade - Page 6 - RC Groups
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May 18, 2009, 03:58 PM
Registered User
Dereck. Although you have stated your displeasure with this plane, it might be worth your time to look at There you will find 20 pages of postings on this plane. Most are fuel powered, there are a good mix of positive and negative comments, but by and large, most seem to like the flyability.
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May 18, 2009, 10:34 PM
Visitor from Reality
I don't think so. I'm afraid I've become one of those aeromodelling dinosaur-like types who prefers to sit down, design and draft my own plans and then build my own models from them. I probably spend more time on plans that don't get built than some hobby buyers put in total before they go off on their next great product buy.

Somehow, many of these forums have drifted from their early days, when only the most doggedly persistent aeromodellers flew electrics into the IMspeak whining of those for whom getting the shrinkwrap off is a major achievement.

A side-effect of all this being that it is getting to where one is not allowed to adversly comment on ready-mades, as though every one is such a stellar achievement that miserable little 'consumers' should stop little short of bowing down before them.

Still, there's a lot of room in the US. Have fun, I'll go my way, thank you very much.


May 19, 2009, 04:02 AM
Registered User
Hi Dereck,

I like your idea of a 3S A123 sized aerobat, especially if you let one of the laser cutters offer short kits. Pretty please?

May 19, 2009, 11:52 AM
Visitor from Reality
Hi Micky
Maybe could be talked into that... A lot of my designs are intended to be very simplistic to build - one of my heroes here is the late, great Randy Randolph, who once told me that all his models were exactly the same, just the sizes and shapes varied!

For example - most of my designs basically have one rib shape. The first one cut out has the edges hardened up a little with thin CA, then it becomes the cutting template until it gets stuck in with the rest as structure. I have an even better structure, where the ribs are basically reduced to top and bottom curves, with flat ends for LE and TE. The spars are made by replacing the back 1/2" of the D box balsa top and bottom sheeting with 1/16" thick spruce.

Seems like a long wait for the laser cut parts to come back from the cutters in that case

ken's baby Fusion is a neat model - I've had one of the full scale Fusions, they are a class act. The trick is finding such a well matched motor that's easily available. Despite my love of smaller models, a 4S A123 calls to me - I have one in the basement somewhere!

May 19, 2009, 01:47 PM
Registered User
Ken Myers's Avatar
The "perfect", easily available motor for sport plane 3S "A123" use has arrived. I could have used it in the Fusion 380, aka baby Fusion, aka Zippy, but it wasn't available when I started the project. It would have saved a little in weight, and the balance would still have been okay.

It is the new Scorpion SII 3014-1220

Appropriate props for 3S "A123" use include APC 11x6 sport, Aeronaut 10.5x8E, Master Airscrew 10x8 G/F 3 series, Aeronaut 10x8E, APC 10x8 sport, Master Airscrew 10x7 standard wood, APC 10x7E
All draw ~35ish amps, give or take a couple of amps
All about 300 watts in and 8500 RPM, give or take a hundred, so you can estimate pitch speed.
The drive system is about 75% efficient at 35 amps or about 225 watts out, estimated

For the ARF guys this would be a very good setup for a Great Planes ElectriFly Super Sportster EP ARF 48"
or the old Super Sportster 20 kit if it can be found.
May 19, 2009, 04:09 PM
Visitor from Reality
Great stuff, Ken, thank you very much.

Sounds pretty close to what I developed my first 'real handy' sports aerobatic electrics around - but probably lighter than a geared Astro 035 cobalt and 10 x 1700 nicads!

Will have to downsize the new design to go back of that, she's more like a 4S 123 design than 3S, though the aerodynamicals should work fine. Mostly just have to ensure that the battery fits.

Real bad when you get a model built and find that doesn't happen...

May 19, 2009, 05:06 PM
Registered User
Ken Myers's Avatar
Ah, the geared AF 035 and 10 NiCds - fond memories.
Something like this:
The TigerShark
This plane flies very well. Original power was an AF05G on 10 1700SCRC cells turning a 10x6 prop at 8,300 and 26 amps. It has 482 of wing area for a wing loading of 17.8 oz./sq.ft - 59.6 oz. RTF. With a cubic wing loading of 9.7 oz./cu.ft., typically sport, it is my best flying NiCad powered plane. What looks like the eye is actually the "plastic spoon" airscoop with white trim added to the front and black trim for the eyeball.

It is now powered by an AF035 with a MA 3.0:1 (2.93:1) gearbox on 10 1700SCRC cells with the 10x6 Rev-up prop. The static amp draw is closer to 30 amps, but the RPM is up to over 9,000 RPM from 8,700 and the vertical is much better, while the horizontal speed is faster at full power. Flight times are "slightly less", but still very acceptable (6-7 minutes), as compared to the 7-8 minutes for the AF05G system."

Actually changed to an AF gearbox with the pinion to give 2.87:1, as I recall. It has been a day or two now.

Can you say, yep, the same?

5/20/09 - If the Scorpion SII 3014-1250 and 3S "A123" 2300mAh were put in this one, the weight would drop to about 43 oz./44 oz.
Last edited by Ken Myers; May 20, 2009 at 07:32 AM. Reason: added info
May 19, 2009, 10:17 PM
RC Enthusiast
YarSmythe's Avatar
Got back from another flight tonight. I feel better flying this plane with these changes:
* Keeping CG at 70mm.
* Flaps down around 20% and NO elevator mix.
* Leveled off my elevators. They had a tiny amount of down in them when centered on the sticks and trim.
The things that stick out the most on this aircraft:
* Flies MUCH faster than my Sig Four Star 40. Also rolls faster.
* Uses less power than the setup on my 4*40.
* Plane needs at least 3/4 throttle for normal flying. If electronic calculations serve me right, you get better efficiency out of a motor and ESC when they are used above 3/4 throttle. Correct?
* Wind noise. Not sure if it's the landing gear or servos. Not too bad..but noticeable.
* As expected, fast landings. It's NOT a floater like my 4*40 (larger wing area & length).
I had fun today...which tells me I got the right plane for "me". Rolls were quick and stopped on a dime. Loops tracked perfectly. Hammerheads didn't waggle. This feels like a winner. The landings need some work but I'm sure I'll nail 'em....eventually.

This plane earns a B+. One of the better ARF kits I've put together. I'm sure my 'second' one (hopefully not anytime soon) will be tweaked to shed some weight but that's it.

Hope everyone else is enjoying their Escapade!

Latest blog entry: Funder & Lightning Videos
May 20, 2009, 11:19 AM
Registered User
Lee. Many thanks for your input. It is most appreciated.
May 20, 2009, 11:53 AM
FlattyFlier's Avatar
Im not sure a 4 star is really a plane to compair it to. The 4 star is bigger, slower, and intended to be a trainer, not a sport model. There are really no similarities besides being a 40 sized low wing taildragger model.

But it sounds like a good one (and it must be sence no one can get them, but one or two days every three or four months! )
May 20, 2009, 10:01 PM
Visitor from Reality
Okay Jake, I really must admit to my 4* being a tad different to a straight out the box kit or a BARF.

As in, I didn't change the wing section... 650W into a 15 x 10 didn't hurt either. Actually, don't ever think of it as a low winged trainer that can do the odd stunt, it is more like a good, solid aerobatic model with excellent slow speed handling. It's a much bigger model than this new GP BARF, from what I've read - I've flown my 4* on a 4S LiPo and it's not so much fun, though I must admit to not really optimising the prop and I was stuck with the gear ratio.

May 21, 2009, 01:51 AM
Registered User
Hi Ken,

Would you recommend the Scorpion SII 3014-1220 on 3S A123 for the PZ T-28?

Thanks! Mickydee
May 21, 2009, 02:26 AM
FlattyFlier's Avatar
Yes, they are a step up from a real trainer, but mine flew much like my Rascal 40. Could do anything you wanted it to do, but did it slower, and didnt look too pretty doing it without some real piloting and corrdination. Looks is the only reason I didnt let the Rascal go, like I did my 4*.
May 21, 2009, 07:37 AM
Registered User
Ken Myers's Avatar
Originally Posted by mickydee
Hi Ken,

Would you recommend the Scorpion SII 3014-1220 on 3S A123 for the PZ T-28?

Thanks! Mickydee
Yes and no. To do it, you would have to change the ESC to a 40-amp, or better yet 45-amp. You'd also have to come up with a way to attach SII 3014-1220 to the front end mount. You'd be installing a 300 watts in power system in a plane that really doesn't need it, but some folks just like to do that kind of thing. I fly my parkzone T-28 with a 3S A123 2300mAh pack and the stock motor, stock 25-amp ESC and a Master Airscrew 11x8 standard wood prop. I still flies well when I want to throw it around, but I mostly use it as an aileron trainer for my students. Good 10 minutes of flight time set up this way.
Imagine using a T-28 for a trainer, how unique.

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