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Mar 06, 2009, 07:29 AM
Ken's CAD Models
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Cool

**SEMFF WWII combat planes 35 designs with plans and video**


These models are the result of the desire to produce low cost, great looking models suitable for combat.


The following list are the design paremeters;[LIST=1][*]Profile WWII 3 channel RET or AET design from PBIII or Owens Corning Foamular material. Now Model Plane Foam![*]Wing area limited to 150 sq. in. with a KFm2 airfoil.[*]Blue Wonder 1700Kv 24g outrunner motor or its equivalent.[*]An optional motor to consider is a 2208-12 1800Kv motor or its equivalent. This motor is better suited to the short nosed long tail moment models like the BF-109 or the Spitfire where attaining the correct CoG is only possible with additional ballast.[*]2 - 9g servos. The HXT brand are very good units, or the Hobby King 10g analogs work well and are low cost.[*]10-15A ESC is more than sufficient for any task in these planes.[*]The battery needed for combat flying is a 800 - 900 mAh 2s unit. I cat attest to the Turnigy Nanotech 850 mAh units.[*]Recommended prop for this set up is either a GWS 7x6 or an APC 7x6E . The main idea here is to stay within a factor rule of 42 or less (that is the diameter x pitch in inches).[*]Total cost would be under $30 excluding esc rx.

Update 14-MAR-2012 - New foam available from www.modelplanefoam.com Check it out!

Update 29-MAR-2013 - Kits of these models are now up on my website at http://www.kenscadmodels.com/semff-w...mbat-kits.html

Link to SketchUp template file that I use to create these designs. Maybe you can also https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=1658

These can easily be designed in Sketchup and scaled to get the wing area within spec. With the many 3 view images and color schemes available should be pretty easy to produce nice looking low cost models for this kind of activity.

This may have already been done, but thought I would pitch it to my buds here.

Edit 30-MAR-2010: All up weight came our just under 7 oz at 197g. That is right close to 150 watts per lb. as the BW motor with a 7x6 SF prop puts out 65 watts. We could call it the 150 cubed rule.

Edit 01-JAN-2011: Added a pictorial build guide for the VLF style builds here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=1874

Ken

Adding a most recent build photo to highlight the excellent and original work of the subscribers to this thread. It will change as folks submit pictures of their work.
See more pictures of crmodels P-51 and zero.
.





P-64 plans and video are here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...2&postcount=80
Hawker Sea Fury plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=134
Mitsubishi A6M Zero plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=137
F8F Bearcat plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=138
FW-190 plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=161
BF-109 Ver. 3 plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=188
F4F Wildcat plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=233
P-51D Mustang plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=250
Mig 3 plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=268
P-51B Mustang plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=286
Spitfire plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=294
F6F Hellcat plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=369
DH Mosquito plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=453
Hawker Hurricane plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=701
P-47B Thunderbolt plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=937
P-39 Airacobra plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=999
P-40F Warhawk plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=1104
SBD Dauntless plans here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=1583
FW-190 VLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=1689
F6F Hellcat VLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=1810
Brewster F2A Buffalo https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=1955
A6M-5 Zero VLF V4 Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=1972
Chance Vought F4U Corsair VLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=2395
Polikarpov i-16 Mosca PLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=2485
TBM Avenger VLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=2522
F8F Bearcat VLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=2668
Yak 3U VLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=2741
Yak 3 VLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=2866
Me-163 Komet PLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=2690
Republic P-47D VLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=3539
IAR-80 https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=4152
Mitsubishi J2M3 Raiden PLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=4719
Grumman F4F Wildcat VLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=5209
CA-12 Boomerang VLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=5227
Hawker Sea Fury VLF Style https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=5355
Last edited by dz1sfb; Mar 07, 2019 at 09:28 PM. Reason: New feature plane
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Mar 06, 2009, 07:40 AM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar

ahh more great fun planes to build!


Great idea Ken!
hrmmm, which bird to do first?

Ok RCGroups, I expect a full page of PDF's by dinner time this evening

Jimmy
Mar 06, 2009, 08:50 AM
Ken's CAD Models
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Thread OP

Other designers contributions to this thread.


The intention of this thread is not a build thread per se, but a showcase/repository of designs meeting the above mentioned criteria.

Ken

In no particular order;

Curtiss SB2C Helldiver by Wilsonman https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=4327
Last edited by dz1sfb; Apr 02, 2013 at 10:05 AM.
Mar 06, 2009, 08:53 AM
Bush Pilot
Sailor Jerry's Avatar
How about these?

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724566
Mar 06, 2009, 08:55 AM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
ahhh, well I am very interested to see what everyone has been building thats for sure. This should be very neat indeed.

Jimmy
Mar 06, 2009, 08:56 AM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Jerry
Yeah I surf that thread all the time. Now lets see what peeps have that fits Ken's criteria above.
Mar 06, 2009, 09:07 AM
Registered User
rcdadx2's Avatar
Hey Ken,

This sounds like a LOT of FUN !!!
You can count me in. Im sure this could catch on big time.

Kamikaze !!! CHOP Chop Suey !!! lol....vince
Mar 06, 2009, 09:16 AM
Ken's CAD Models
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Thread OP

Differences from the Printed Warbirds


I have seen the Printed Warbirds thread, but have not looked at it in detail. Many would probably work. I will look at them some more. Any idea what the wing area has been on these?

Ken

Edit: Okay breezed through a few posts there, and that is pretty much the concept, with the exception of size and carbon fiber. That is why I am limiting wing area to 150 sq. in.'s. Adding CF automatically adds $5 to the cost. Fiber strapping tape will be plenty sufficient if required.
Last edited by dz1sfb; Mar 06, 2009 at 09:28 AM. Reason: More info
Mar 06, 2009, 09:26 AM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
I wanna say all different size's. If memory serve's, seems to focus on taking 3 views & making profile foamies from that in general and alot of decorative printable overlays. Not a specific size. I could be wrong though. Been a while since I surfed over there.

Jimmy
Mar 06, 2009, 01:41 PM
Ken's CAD Models
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Thread OP

Someone actually has kitted models in this size


This is budget RC's website. They produce models in the proportions that I am talking about here.
http://www.budgetrc.com/BuyPackage/BuyCombat.html


Here is a RCGroups review on this product. You can see by the spec's that it is just over the 150 sq. in. design criteria.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=932718

I was at the Propshop at lunchtime today and looked at these models. They are laser cut 1.9# EPP with all the plywood and CF components to make a complete model. All in all these are very nice kits at a very reasonable price ($35). They are AET aircraft.

But we are really on the cheap here and know that we can have this RTF for about that money. Plus it is just plane fun to design your own model.

Ken
Mar 06, 2009, 04:21 PM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
Yeah I looked at those very same ones & you are right, it is much more fun doing them yourself.

I would much rather spend that money on Don's motors & the other items needed like servo's & build their 35.00 kit out of 3.00 in foam and dowels.

Jimmy

Edit: Oh and don't even get me started on the Prop Shop! I could spend my whole day AND paycheck in that place.
Mar 09, 2009, 10:02 AM
Ken's CAD Models
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Thread OP
Greetings today!

Like I said, this idea is not new. Found Gene Bond's Blu-51cd Simple Fun Fighter.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=389720

This gets very near what I am trying to do hear. He has 2 versions, one is 200 sq. in's and the other is 130 sq in. wing area. 30" wing span compared to 24" wingspan.

I believe that the 150 sq. in. rule would really be an optimum size for the C20. Shooting for good vertical performance with light wing loading.

Ken
Last edited by dz1sfb; Mar 09, 2009 at 10:08 AM.
Mar 09, 2009, 10:43 AM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
yeah I have the foam cut out for the 30" sitting at home. Then started the T1 & finished the BB30. Also built the SF & Shark Bait. Haven't picked up the Stang again yet, but once I have an inventory of enough electrics I'll get back to her.
Mar 09, 2009, 10:48 AM
D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb
dekan's Avatar
Ken, I looked at the BugetR/C web page... I'm interested...But with the UK currency now getting lower and lower against the dollar..I won't be ordering a kit any time soon..

I have an Ele C20 or two spare....so I'm interested in something about 24"WS...
Mar 09, 2009, 11:58 AM
Ken's CAD Models
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Thread OP
Hi Dekan,

With the 150 sq. in. parameter, they will vary by design depending on the aspect ratio. They should all fall somewhere in the 24"-28" ws range.

The C20 is like the Cox Babe .049 of the brushless world. Versatile, powerful, and cheap. I like'm.

As far as the Budget RC planes. Very nice high quality kits at a very good price. However, I like to do this as cheap as possible, as this is supposed to be discretionary income, and we are having less of that these days.

Do you have a design that you are going to do, or would like to see done?

I am looking at the P-64 which put most simply was a single seat fighter version of the AT-6, SNJ, Harvard aircraft for export. Neat story of this aircraft on wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_P-64

I am thinking that in order to keep it simple and strong that I will move the wing up to the thrust centerline and the horizontal stab down to the same.


Inviting thoughts,
Ken
Mar 09, 2009, 12:26 PM
D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb
dekan's Avatar
Ken, I dont really know.... I thought about maybe building a Hawker Hurricane.... too many Spits already .

I like the Harvard but the double dihedral breaks would put me off.

There loads of WW2 type rarely seen....P63 KingCobra would be nice for instance

What did you reckon on the BugetRC plane's depron fus side stiffeners?
Mar 09, 2009, 12:45 PM
Ken's CAD Models
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Thread OP
Dekan,

You caught me! I did not notice the Depron sides. I saw the EPP fuselage, wing , and tail, and just assumed it was all EPP. It is a very good idea since these are not really slow flyers. If they were EPP you might get some flutter at high speed. That is probably what happened to them in development.

I like your choices of aircraft. Rarity is what I liked about the P-64, I never even heard of it before, let alone seen it modeled.

Ken
Mar 09, 2009, 02:27 PM
D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb
dekan's Avatar
Ken... your a Star... Thanks for the 3-views ...Hmm why not use a bit more CF...cost I suppose
Mar 23, 2009, 05:54 AM
Ken's CAD Models
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Thread OP

Some already awesome plans out there


Here are some plans by one of our brothers in the land down under.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=523981

Take a look. His are primarily AET setups, but they are around 28" which works out very near the 150 sq. in. parameter.

Ken
Mar 23, 2009, 07:56 AM
Registered User
flypaper 2's Avatar
Where do you find this C 20 outrunner motor.
Mar 23, 2009, 08:26 AM
AKA Don
$10 'bout 1/2 way down this page http://www.strongrcmotors.com/Motors.htm

Don't forget to select your shipping from the shipping page before checkout. The $3 padded envelope shipping will get it to any US48 address.

Don
Mar 23, 2009, 08:43 AM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar

Thanks Ken


Quote:
Originally Posted by dz1sfb
Here are some plans by one of our brothers in the land down under.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=523981

Take a look. His are primarily AET setups, but they are around 28" which works out very near the 150 sq. in. parameter.

Ken
Ken, you always seem to create or find something I just can't take my eyes off of. Nice job finding that thread. I luv the planes featured there.

Once summer kicks in & the household gets through the recent financial CRUNCH, we will all definately have a goof fun fly combat session.

Jimmy
Apr 05, 2009, 04:40 PM
Ken's CAD Models
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Thread OP

Quick look at the P-64


Started this in Sketchup, but think I like TurboCAD much better.

Ken
Apr 05, 2009, 04:58 PM
AKA Don
Ken,
Are we going to 3 servo's?
EDIT: OH, I see no rudder, so is it AET?
Last edited by bz1mcr; Apr 05, 2009 at 05:25 PM.
Apr 05, 2009, 05:05 PM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
I like it Ken.
Is this a version of an actual warbird? If this was your design, how do you go about figuring where the CG needs to be?. I cant remember where but I remember the mac calculator being used to figure a CG givin certain measurements of the wing.

I had my Street Fighter in the air this morning but with the little IPS & a 2s lipo, it didn't have enough for the slight breeze that was out. It would just do that "Blu Baby" hover I saw this cool pilot doing a while back.

Will you be doing a cad version of the same plane? What motor do you think you would put on it. Oh yeah, & what is the ws on the P-64?

I'm thinking that I will need to move the cg back on the SF to fatten up the nose weight to get it to plane out if I will continue using the IPS set up.

Your thoughts?

Jimmy
Apr 05, 2009, 05:30 PM
AKA Don
Jimmy,
To increase flight speed you need to increase power or reduce drag. One way is to "clip" the wings, or just make the whole plane smaller.

Moving the CG reward will mostly just make it less pitch stable.
Don
Apr 05, 2009, 06:08 PM
I meant to do that!
Oracus's Avatar
Hello

I have a Budget RC ME109 & P47 these were my 1st time building and it was fairly easy. I only have one problem now that is TX settings(Hitec Eclipse) i need to decrease the sensitivity of the ailerons i lowered the end points on the ailerons because it rolls really fast. So would the correct way be adding expo or D/R I'm not to good at radio programming yet.

Kyle
Apr 05, 2009, 06:51 PM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bz1mcr
Jimmy,
To increase flight speed you need to increase power or reduce drag. One way is to "clip" the wings, or just make the whole plane smaller.

Moving the CG reward will mostly just make it less pitch stable.
Don
Actually, I had already decided to throw the 1300 kv BW on it since asking. Thought maybe the IPS would do it since it was from a 7 oz Lite Stik. Didn't really take into consideration the substantially different wing areas & ws's between the 2 planes. Otherwise I don't want to make the plane any smaller.
Can't wait to try this guy out with the BW.
Apr 05, 2009, 08:37 PM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
hey guys, is it critical to have the motor right on center of the fuse vert/horz cross? I am putting the BW 1300 on the SF and would like to do so w/o changing firewalls. but there is a hole from the orig IPS set up that will make me mount the motor slightly higher than center. would that be ok?
Apr 05, 2009, 09:27 PM
treefinder
springer's Avatar
How slight is slightly? 1/16 won't make much difference, but a quarter inch may. Can you just rotate the motor mount around the original centerline? drill 4 new holes?
Apr 05, 2009, 10:00 PM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
Actually, didn;t need to raise it at all. Springer, what you mentioned is the smartest way to do it & after posting, I realised it too. Just turned the mount clockwise, added slight shim top right(when facing motor from frt.) gives good down & rt thrust which I believe is needed. I flew the IPS this morning & she kept wanting to tip the left wing down.

Sooooo. add some right & down thrust, a ballsy 1300 kv BW and she took off out of my hand w/o any push from me. Took off like a bat outta . Too bad it was too dark to see what I was doing. But make no mistake, this plane is going to be fun as a barrel O monkeys to fly. She'll be in the back of the truck at all times & the first sign of no winds, up she goes.

Hey Ken, are you gonna start doing the planes AET vs RET?

I have the Wild Hawk gear & am thinking I am gonna do a big 40+"ws RET fun stang with a bunch of dihedral. Like a big honkin Park Flyer Pete. The motor is a 380 can. Would like to do a big RET just for having fun.
Stay Tuned...
Jimmy
Last edited by Jimmy JFlyer; Apr 06, 2009 at 06:20 AM.
Apr 06, 2009, 06:07 AM
Ken's CAD Models
dz1sfb's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oracus
Hello

I have a Budget RC ME109 & P47 these were my 1st time building and it was fairly easy. I only have one problem now that is TX settings(Hitec Eclipse) i need to decrease the sensitivity of the ailerons i lowered the end points on the ailerons because it rolls really fast. So would the correct way be adding expo or D/R I'm not to good at radio programming yet.

Kyle
HI Kyle,

Those Budget RC models are really nice kits. I would suggest that rather than using the end point adjustment, that you set the throws with the dual rate capability. Then if you still need further sensitivity control add in some exponential. Once you get the radio programming figured out your gonna love it.

What motor are you using on your birds?

Ken
Apr 06, 2009, 06:23 AM
Ken's CAD Models
dz1sfb's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy JFlyer
I like it Ken.
Is this a version of an actual warbird? If this was your design, how do you go about figuring where the CG needs to be?...

Jimmy
Jimmy,

THis is an actual warbird that has an interesting history. It was produced by North American for export. Originally a single seat version of the very successfull AT-6 (Texan). The following is the opening paragraph from Wikipedia on this subject. Interesting reading.

The designator North American P-64 was assigned by the U.S. Army Air Corps to six North American model NA-68 aircraft seized by the US government that were destined for Thialand when that country was invaded by Japanese forces in World War II. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_P-64

Not true to scale I enlarged the tail surfaces by 10%. Also want to model to be a simple cruciform. That raises the wing and lowers the horizontal tail. K.I.S.S. method here. I like the looks as a profile model better than the Budget RC models. What they have done is okay, I just think it goes too far for a simple model. I saw Budget RC's booth at Toledo and they had a couple on display. That confirmed my decision to stay with a simpler style represented here in this thread.

CG is simple! find the MAC or average chord and go back 25-33% depending on how you want it to fly.


Ken
Apr 06, 2009, 06:36 AM
Ken's CAD Models
dz1sfb's Avatar
Thread OP

Another cool design for this class


Skypileit posted a neat picture in the SEMMF thread and I thought this would be an awsome entry for this class of model.

The ME 163 Komet.

Ken
Apr 06, 2009, 08:13 AM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar

Nice


Quote:
Originally Posted by dz1sfb
Skypileit posted a neat picture in the SEMMF thread and I thought this would be an awsome entry for this class of model.

The ME 163 Komet.

Ken
I for one would LOVE to see how one of you that actually know's what you are doing would set this one up. I am definately not that person so if anyone does get the gumption to do this guy, please post your adventure here!
thx
Jimmy
Apr 06, 2009, 10:12 AM
Ken's CAD Models
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Thread OP
Jimmy,

The Me163 would probably be one of the better looking profile warbirds due to its symmetry. Setup for this would be 25% of MAC using elevons with slight reflex. That means the elevons are trimmed to be up a little. Build it as a chuckie first to get the reflex and CG confirmed, then go to town on the actual model. I am sure that this has been done already and can be found. Even plans are probably out there.

Ken
Apr 06, 2009, 10:58 AM
D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb
dekan's Avatar
Gpw did one. Most of the ME163 models I have seen seem to have some washout in the wing tips..
My old cartoon Me163 flew fine without...but it did have parallel chord wing....
Apr 06, 2009, 07:10 PM
I meant to do that!
Oracus's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dz1sfb
HI Kyle,

Those Budget RC models are really nice kits. I would suggest that rather than using the end point adjustment, that you set the throws with the dual rate capability. Then if you still need further sensitivity control add in some exponential. Once you get the radio programming figured out your gonna love it.

What motor are you using on your birds?

Ken
Ok I have never used D/R before so what would a good start point be? I mostly fly Heli's so I know about expo some what ok. The Hitec is good but i only use it on the foamies I also have a DX6i on my Esky Belt-Cp heli.
Im using two different motors
ME-109 20g 2300kv hextronik outrunner-http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=8478
P-47 - 17g 2100kv outrunner came as a combo

Kyle
Apr 06, 2009, 09:30 PM
Ken's CAD Models
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Thread OP

More work


Kyle,

Looks like you are getting it together. Looking forward to hear your flight report.

Did some more modeling in Sketchup this evening. Added the C20 motor to the P-64 and got the Me-163 into Sketchup as well. Both are scaled to 150 sq. in. wing area.

Ken
Last edited by dz1sfb; Apr 07, 2009 at 07:54 AM.
Apr 06, 2009, 09:41 PM
AKA Don
If you are taking vote I'm for the P-64. The Me-163 just does not inspire me.

Details, details...moving the ailerons in would make connecting them to one servo a lot easier.
Don
Apr 06, 2009, 09:47 PM
Ken's CAD Models
dz1sfb's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by bz1mcr
If you are taking vote I'm for the P-64. The Me-163 just does not inspire me.

Details, details...moving the ailerons in would make connecting them to one servo a lot easier.
Don
Definitely agree with you on the ailerons Don. Also running them straight out instead of that little nip of foam on the tip.

On another note Don. Would you be available around 3:30 tomorrow, that I might stop by and get another Rascal wing set baked?

Ken

BTW the Me163 might be a hotter contender in combat, but the P-64 sure has some nice lines.
Apr 06, 2009, 10:15 PM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
Ken, would the Me163 be elevons?
Apr 07, 2009, 05:46 AM
Ken's CAD Models
dz1sfb's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy JFlyer
Ken, would the Me163 be elevons?
You are correct.

Ken
Apr 07, 2009, 06:53 AM
Registered HotGlue Addict
chaosMurphy's Avatar
dz1sfb,
Good thread, outstanding idea, thanks!
Still flying my streetfighter, tough little bird too.
Three servos, one elevator, no rudder, one each aileron (channel 6 flap switch adds that element of surprise )

bzrmc1,
Komet inspiration? Allup servos equal only two. I use XMTR ‘elevator’ trim lever to crank in reflex for outstanding dead stick glide path.

Viking60 did a sweetheart
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...ighlight=komet

See Zaurak3’s Komet
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...ighlight=komet
and post 38-39-40 (Burke)
I know you will probably go all electric
But check out Mr Burke’s Komet

Subscribed
Apr 07, 2009, 08:03 AM
Ken's CAD Models
dz1sfb's Avatar
Thread OP

Super Fast Electric Me-163


Chaos,

Thanks for the links. The Me-163 is an interesting aircraft. I was looking at someones Me-163 yesterday that was electric prop on the nose. Doing around 200 mph. It really screamed and looked good doing it. Jim Fox Composites Rocket Me 163 (4 min 53 sec)Please excuse the audio. Not a song I would choose to show off the powerful flight performance.

I just looked up on YouTube and saw Mr. Burke's version with rocket motor in the tail.

Ken
Last edited by dz1sfb; Apr 07, 2009 at 08:17 AM. Reason: added content
Apr 09, 2009, 07:38 PM
Ken's CAD Models
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Thread OP

Some Sketchup and cnc


Here is the Me-163 and P-64 SU files. These are not what I would call plans, but will assist those who want to take things a step further.

Ken
Last edited by dz1sfb; Apr 10, 2009 at 09:40 AM. Reason: removed bad data
Apr 09, 2009, 09:07 PM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dz1sfb
Chaos,

Thanks for the links. The Me-163 is an interesting aircraft. I was looking at someones Me-163 yesterday that was electric prop on the nose. Doing around 200 mph. It really screamed and looked good doing it. Jim Fox Composites Rocket Me 163 (4 min 53 sec)Please excuse the audio. Not a song I would choose to show off the powerful flight performance.

I just looked up on YouTube and saw Mr. Burke's version with rocket motor in the tail.

Ken
2 words...
Holy.....Crap! thats just too much for my blood.
wow
Apr 28, 2009, 09:07 PM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
Hey Ken, goes the search for the sweet 150 sq" class plane? Have you had a chance to cut the Me-163 or P-64 yet?
I know, too many planes, not enough FREE time.
I retired my Streetfighter after the last nose in. I just had a string of bad decisions to not wait for a calm day to fly & kept sending her up. Had lots of good flights & that large rudder will snap that sucker around in a heartbeat. Great loops too. Fortunately the nose is a glue on so it just needs another nose. But, alas, the gear is being donated to Gene's Blu51cd. Doing her with 1.5" dihedral each wing & also adding rudder. I'm gonna build it 30" ws per plans and use that to learn flying a low winger & also use it as a aileron trainer. Supposed to be quite stable for a low wing. The Streetfighter was a bit of a thumb work out for my inexperienced thumbs. The larger Stang should slow it down some.

Looking forward to any progress on this concept!
TTFN
Jimmy
Apr 28, 2009, 09:11 PM
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Jimmy,

I have cut out both planes. I am however stalled on them as I am buying materials and prepping for Oshkosh. I am thinking that 150 sq. in. might be too large for the C20 set up. It will fly it okay, but add the drag of a streamer and not sure. Will try it anyway.

Ken
Apr 28, 2009, 09:25 PM
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hrmmm. I don't have any experience with the C20 yet... what is its capabilities compared to the BW? 1300, 1500, 1700kv...
I am looking forward to the P64.
If I didn't have so many projects of my own, I would like to try & learn some on my SU & do my own. What would the P64's ws be at 150 sq"s?
Apr 28, 2009, 10:51 PM
AKA Don
Quote:
Originally Posted by dz1sfb
Jimmy,

I have cut out both planes. I am however stalled on them as I am buying materials and prepping for Oshkosh. I am thinking that 150 sq. in. might be too large for the C20 set up. It will fly it okay, but add the drag of a streamer and not sure. Will try it anyway.

Ken
150 sq in and a c20 sounds about right to me. Coarse I am thinking slo-combat. Anyway build it a little big and then cut it down if you want to fly faster. That's normal development according to Dave Powers.
Apr 29, 2009, 05:33 AM
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The P-64 will be the first one off the board. I have all the control surfaces hinged. Ready to glue in the wing spars (1/8" dowel rod). Cutting 1" diameter X 1/16" thick ply firewalls today.

Ken

PS - Don, I'm setting up the Phlatprinter in the garage and will be cutting your parts soon.
Mar 22, 2010, 07:54 PM
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P-64 back in action


Recently we have been discussing foamie combat over in the SEMFF thread. A number of us would like to fly one design using low cost components and all the interested parties seem to like this P-64.

I have been updating the Sketchup file and brought the first patterns that got cut last year up to speed.

The design parameters have been upgraded somewhat. Changes include;
1. Go from ELE C20 motor to the popular Blue Wonder 1700 Kv motor.

2. Change up from 5g to 9g servos. You could always go back down.

3. Added a KFm2 step to wing, along with horizontal and vertical fuselage doublers.

Projected AUW will be 182g / 6.3 oz. This is with a 900 mAh 2s battery. Probably a skosh more once some strapping tape and paint is added.

Looking good Jimmy!

Ken
Mar 22, 2010, 08:22 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
What is the span on this guy Ken?

I think that the printed warbirds thread has a ton of planes in this same category that would work great for the type of combat we are looking at.
Last edited by SGTalon; Jul 13, 2012 at 07:21 AM.
Mar 22, 2010, 08:47 PM
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Rock on Ken! We are gonna have some serious fun with these guys.
Luv that AUW. Makes it much easier to stay with the 2s batts we'll be using.

Man this is going to be fun.
Mar 23, 2010, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGTalon
What is the span on this guy Ken?

I think that the printed warbirds thread has a ton of planes in this same category that would work great for the type of combat we are looking at.
Dennis,

The wingspan is 28.5"

Ken
Mar 23, 2010, 02:24 PM
AKA Don
Quote:
Originally Posted by dz1sfb
The P-64 will be the first one off the board. I have all the control surfaces hinged. Ready to glue in the wing spars (1/8" dowel rod). Cutting 1" diameter X 1/16" thick ply firewalls today.

Ken

PS - Don, I'm setting up the Phlatprinter in the garage and will be cutting your parts soon.

Way kool. This will be fun!
Don
Mar 24, 2010, 03:07 PM
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P-64 Update!

Servos are mounted, and added doublers on the fuselage upper profile. They run from the nose to the windscreen and down to the back of the KF step. Used 1/2" wide strapping tape on top and bottom of wing spanwise. Firewall installed. Will make the pushrods this evening. and it will be complete.

Gotta put a camo scheme on this one. There are very few photographs of these planes. Some that are out there are T-6s converted to P-64s and don't look that great.

I will post some pics of the finished airframe this evening.

Ken
Mar 24, 2010, 05:24 PM
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Can't wait to hear the goods on the finished product Ken.
Question...where do you get your 1/2 inch strapping tape? I haven't founbd it anywhere yet. Just the wide tape.

Agreed on the camo. That just looks too nice and more realistic. I really liike the other paint job too but on a Warbird, I am a sucker for realism.
Mar 24, 2010, 07:42 PM
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P-64 is all but ready to fly


All I need is my 1700 Kv BW motor and a paint job. This bird is wired and ready to fly.

I believe that I will need to move some components around a bit. She seems nose heavy. Especially knowing that KFm2 has a more aft CG.

However the AUW is 191.8g / 6.67 oz. If we keep the paint light she'll stay under 7 oz.

Figured out a neat way to manage the servo wires. I ended up putting a slot in the related doubler then burying the wire in the slot and taping over it with cellophane tape. See attached images.

Ken
Mar 24, 2010, 07:44 PM
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Jimmy, I got the 1/2" strapping tape from a surplus source. Not a commercial source. I have 3 or 4 rolls.

Ken
Mar 25, 2010, 05:19 AM
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Very nice Ken. Did you install the aileron servo before adding the doublers?
Mar 25, 2010, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy JFlyer
Very nice Ken. Did you install the aileron servo before adding the doublers?
Yes, actually even before adding the main fuselage upper.

Working on painting today.

Ken
Mar 25, 2010, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dz1sfb
Yes, actually even before adding the main fuselage upper.

Working on painting today.

Ken
Great, good to know. Going with the camo?
Mar 25, 2010, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy JFlyer
Great, good to know. Going with the camo?
Most definitely!

Ken
Mar 25, 2010, 08:36 AM
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Sweet. I'll be painting mine realistic as well. Either camo or metal with markings.
Mar 25, 2010, 11:40 AM
AKA Don
Good news. The Motors (BW 1700's) arrived at my post office this morning. They could be delivered today or tomorrow.
Don


EDIT: they came today!
Last edited by bz1mcr; Mar 25, 2010 at 03:11 PM.
Mar 25, 2010, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bz1mcr
Good news. The Motors (BW 1700's) arrived at my post office this morning. They could be delivered today or tomorrow.
Don
All Right! That is right on time.

Got the camo done and am shooting the lower side light grey. Just need to add panel lines after that and she'll be ready to give all nine yards.

Ken
Mar 25, 2010, 05:04 PM
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Pics pics pics!!!
Mar 25, 2010, 08:19 PM
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P-64 in camo


Here is a shot of the camo scheme on the P-64.

I am not quite done putting the panel lines on and still need the star insignia. I will make those a water slide decals.

Also included a picture of control horn production.

Ken
Mar 25, 2010, 08:32 PM
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Ken, that is awesome! Waiting for a maiden report is killing me!

When do you think you'll try to get a flight in? Very anxious to hear how she flies.
Mar 25, 2010, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Ken, that is awesome! Waiting for a maiden report is killing me!

When do you think you'll try to get a flight in? Very anxious to hear how she flies.
Jimmy, I will not get to fly her before Sunday.

On the kits. The hope was to get two kits per sheet, but with the added KF step and doublers looks like we will only get one per sheet.

Here is the current sheet layout. I will also do an assembly guide similar to what I did for the Sea BB.

Ken
Mar 26, 2010, 01:39 PM
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Beautiful work! I would be very proud of myself if I made something so nice.

Jordon
Mar 26, 2010, 03:10 PM
AKA Don
Jordon,
How did the bandsawed crepe streamers work out?
Mar 27, 2010, 10:26 AM
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Don,

Steamers done! I cut 2 rolls of white and 2 rolls of yellow. They cut easily but tended to pull into the blade just enough to get my attention. I now have 4 rolls of 1” wide white streamers and 4 rolls of 1” yellow. We can all use the same colors or we can each get our own color. The stuff is so cheap and easy to do that it will be great to have a bunch on hand.

Jordon


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