sooo....what'cha gonna get with your refund?

[The_Giver]

Originally posted by NewbieX

Republicans are (also) master porkers

ROFLMAO!

This is funny in so many ways.

-O Geoffrey

... he said porker :P

[This message has been edited by The_Giver (edited 06-20-2001).]

[NewbieX]

Burden of proof falls on he who makes the assertion. If not, I could run around saying all conservatives are taking their cue from Benny Hinn and Pat Robertson which isn't true at all. It's not passing the buck, it's demanding that heresay and wives tales don't pass as information and debate. Passing the Buck is making an assertion and then demanding that it be proven/disproven by someone else.

The abortion debate and separation of church and state (school prayer) have many other components besides individual spirituality. Let's start with freedom over one's own body and religious freedom. Or we could debate the "humanness" of a potential human. Do human ovum or sperm have rights? At what point in fertilization, growth, development does an embryo, a zygote a fetus become fully human. Do children have full human rights? No. Then why should an embryo have full child rights. Or we could talk about the separation of church and state, which seems to me, was a pretty large concern of the founding fathers and of many current religious leaders.

The liberal stance on this is that religion should not be coerced or sponsored by the state. As for abortion, it's a realization a) that unwanted pregnancy does happen b) that women will go to extremes if legal abortion is not available c) that neither the unprepared mother, the state or adoptive families can handle all unwanted pregnancies. It's not that people think abortion is a good thing or like the idea of killing babies or flaunt their power in the face of God. It's that the alternative is possibly a very bad thing. Not to mention, that motherhood is a very big commitment and I don't beleive anyone should be coerced into it by the state or by anyone.

If you can prove to me that the Christian Monotheistic God absolutely exists and no other Theistic belief system exists and that that God thinks abortion is a sin and that God thinks religious freedom is a sin and that God thinks school prayer is the way to go, then you've got me hook, line and sinker. Until then, religion is personal belief and in my opinion should remain there, rather than in the realm of government. This doesn't make me or anyone an atheist, it makes us consistent with the constitution of the USA. Simply, religious belief shouldn't be legislated.

That's what I'm saying about honest communication, debate and compromise. We can try to understand where one another is coming from, rather than you assuming I'm a dirty heathen and me assuming you are a bible-thumper.

I didn't say the thing about pork either, but I think we can all agree that one of the services our representatives in Washington provide is to bring federal money home to the state, ala pork. "StateX is the best place for this FederalX to be built and run at the cost of WhoppingX bringing jobs and economic stimulation to StateX".

Represenative Democracy, gotta love her despite the fact she's pretty cranky and awfully demanding.

Was it Churchill who said, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others". He was right.

I find it a travesty of the worst kind that corporate oligarchy is currently being practiced by both major parties and is currently passing as Democracy in these United States. While powerful politicians on both sides rant on about a few marginal debates and extremists on either side get all whooped up about it, the corporations (human invented institutions which favor the few over the many) are running rampant over the rights of real citizens, namely human beings.

Now we can all go pay our inflated Visa bills, our inflated energy bills and return to work making money for those that already have much and wonder why it seems we have less and less time for families, communities and ourselves. That neighborhoods disintegrate and children are raised on TV, that the 1st world becomes ever more frenetic and diverted and the 3rd becomes ever more impoverished, while the DOW marches on to higher and higher corporate earnings are some interestingly related events.

I'm not saying business is bad in itself, I'm saying it shouldn't be allowed to exert more pressure on gov't than do citizens themselves which is unfortunately the case today.

For some reason (way beyond my understanding)this is less compelling than tax stratification, what people do with their uterus and a myriad of other marginal "issues", which the dems and pubs constantly debate.

Maybe it's less compelling because no one in power really talks about it. Look at John McCain. You can be a war hero and POW, a dedicated public servant and a thoughtful politician who actually drafts legislation, but mention something about taking some power away from corps and you're a disloyal pariah. Who wants to bet Feingold and McCain and a handful of others with the balls to fight entrenched power are working at non-profits in a few years?



[This message has been edited by NewbieX (edited 06-20-2001).]

[me11owman]

These things are much less interesting when they denegrate down to...."I'm right and your not" sort of posts.....

[Steve McBride]

I'm gonna get some more planes of course.....

Steve

[me11owman]

Right on Newbie....
Tell it like it is!

[jrgii]

Originally posted by DeaninMilwaukee:
"But with Bush letting gas going up to $3.00 a gallon "

Letting? What, do you think he can stop it by presidential decree?

The only way to drop prices is to up supply.

If you were the prez, how would YOU up supply?

Force OPEC to increase production!