sooo....what'cha gonna get with your refund?

[DeaninMilwaukee]

"I'm no democrat, but I just have to wonder where this stuff comes from. Who's talking about increasing taxes????"

Taxes (net revenues) automatically increase every year by a preagreed %. Thats was supposed to be about 7% this year but now will drop to around 6% due to the tax "cut".
If they'de changed it to 8% they'de call it a tax increase, but make no mistake, the goverments take goes up every year. They just call don't call it a tax increase.

I personally would like to see this increase limited to the inflation rate instead of doubling it, but hey, what do I know?

[BillM]

To anyone who is interested: When was the last time a politician listened to the people?

[DeaninMilwaukee]

Tailheavy, you have to remember that true liberals have a superiority complex. It not just you who they talk down to, its any non liberal. Thats why you'll find the largest percentage of liberals are aethiests. They've rationalized God away in their minds and denigrate anyone who does'nt agree with them as simple minded fools. (ie prez Bush).

Its really a shame these people have hijacked what used to be a reputable, honorable party, the democrats.
JFK would be ashamed of what his parties become.

[mrittinger]

amazes me how some people can view the handing over of an extra $300 as a BAD thing!

MArk

[Tim O]

Gas guzzling ATV's? They get about 40mpg. People get them because they're fun to ride, not for transportation. It's sure a lot more energy efficient than tooling around in a vintage car.

I edited this because based on re-reading your post, I think you meant SUV's instead of ATV's.

Originally posted by Feodosia Flyer:
"Less than 1/2 of our oil is produced by our country"

We produce all the oil we actually need...
The problems are that we are culturally terrible wasters .....let's face it,we have an unhealthy relationship with the automobile..here's one GREAT example..
I live in pan-cake flat south New Jersey that gets about a grand total of 4 inches of snow in a year..... now, why does every yuppy household have at least one or two gas guzzling ATV's in each driveway ? What the h*** do they need with those things in this state ? A double-transmission station wagon that drinks up at least double the amount of gasoline, big deal .... If they want to look like they are sitting high and pretty they can buy a 4 cylinder normal station wagon and jack it up, ha !

[This message has been edited by Tim O (edited 06-19-2001).]

[NipponDave]

Originally posted by DeaninMilwaukee:
Taxes (net revenues) automatically increase every year by a preagreed %. Thats was supposed to be about 7% this year but now will drop to around 6% due to the tax "cut".

Don't confuse tax rate percentages (which is what politicians can control) with revenues. Net revenues depend on the health of the economy - more money made means more tax revenues are collected. Unless you want to give the democrats full credit for the economic miracle over the Clinton administration, and I bet you don't, don't blame them for the windfall in revenues by calling it a tax increase. Nobody knew that the economy would grow like that - there was no "pre-set", diabolical democratic plan for such because they couldn't have predicted the future.

Ironically, the republicans now think that THEY have a crystal-ball, and that the pretty picture it shows will allow us to shirk our responsibility to creditors today. Debt crushes families, corporations, and countries. Not paying it back is weak-minded and immoral, and worse, saddles our children with a dim and uncertain future.

I'd love to see more people start thinking for themselves - the kind of statistics the get quoted from slavish supporters of one party or the other chill my blood. Politicians today think that they can fool most of the people most of the time. They're right.

Pay down the debt - reduce taxes - move power from Washington to your town.

[Gene]

Refund? What's that? How about PAYFUND to the tune $2,000.00. Phuey!!!

[DeaninMilwaukee]

"Don't confuse tax rate percentages (which is what politicians can control) with revenues."

I did'nt. Thought I was clear on that.

" Net revenues depend on the health of the economy - more money made means more tax revenues are collected. "


Absolutly correct.


"Unless you want to give the democrats full credit for the economic miracle over the Clinton administration, and I bet you don't,"


Right again.


" don't blame them for the windfall in revenues by calling it a tax increase."


Its not a windfall, its overtaxation. They continued to keep the tax rate the same even though they knew early on that it was more than the goverment needed.
Perhaps some long backburnered pet projects were about to see the light of day before mean ol' prez Bush stepped in.
No wonder the dems fought so hard to first avoid and then limit the tax cut.
It must have been real painful to watch all that long awaited pork slide right off the table untouched.

[NipponDave]

Originally posted by DeaninMilwaukee:
"Its not a windfall, its overtaxation. They continued to keep the tax rate the same even though they knew early on that it was more than the goverment needed."

Yes, hindsight is 20/20.

And about pork, if you think it's an invention of the Democrats, you need the consult the records at the CBO. The Republicans are (also) master porkers.

Armed with the facts, I don't see how anyone could support the policies of either party.

[NewbieX]

Originally posted by DeaninMilwaukee:
Tailheavy, you have to remember that true liberals have a superiority complex. It not just you who they talk down to, its any non liberal. Thats why you'll find the largest percentage of liberals are aethiests. They've rationalized God away in their minds and denigrate anyone who does'nt agree with them as simple minded fools. (ie prez Bush).

Its really a shame these people have hijacked what used to be a reputable, honorable party, the democrats.
JFK would be ashamed of what his parties become.

So I guess I can over-generalize about the motivations, thoughts and spiritual beliefs of political conservatives and you would appreciate that, or would that be superior if I said the same thing you have said.

Lumping people into groups based on political affiliation (which is often inherited from family) and then ascribing personality traits isn't going to help us understand each other's opinions and ideas.

Let's keep it based on policy objectives and issues which can be studied and discussed without resorting to blanket statements condemning ones philosophical opponents.

And the same things that are hurting the Democratic Party hurts the Republican Party, namely TV politics (spin, marketing, polling, etc, where a good tie and a good speaking voice is more important than what you say or do), corporatization, death of the small business, as well as the general political apathy of the American public. Remember, the majority of eligable voters didn't even vote in the last election.

We get the government we demand and most people (liberal or conservative) are too busy demanding entertainment, fancy cell phones and other meaningless diversions to demand much in the way of government.

The conservative/liberal baiting, ceaseless argument and lining up like democracy is a gang fight, isn't going to help solve the problems, address the issues or make America the best it can be.

But I do agree that both major parties are basically useless at this point. Kind of hard to address the needs of a country and a world, when you're busy raising money for re-election by cow-towwing to anyone with a couple million to rub together.

Personally, I am a deeply spiritual person and don't need anyone telling me what I should believe. I have educated myself from a very young age on the world's religions, on my family's religion and have struggled with many questions to come to where I am spiritually.

And I highly doubt most liberals are atheists. I strenuously charge you with the responsibility of proving that with verifiable research or retracting your erroneous statement. I'm sure studies have been done and the information is available.

I make every effort to give people the benefit of the doubt and respect them and their beliefs whether I agree or not. I guess I'll be referring to myself as a radical or a progressive or a leftist, since I no longer fit into the "Liberal" category, due to belief in God and the realization my opinion is only an opinion.

If you think liberal politics are bad, wait till you get a load of radical politics. See Noam Chomsky.

And if JFK had been President in 2000, the same thing would have happened to him that happened to Clinton. Marilyn Monroe and a host of others played Lewinsky with JFK, but the opposition didn't care back then because it wasn't (rightly so) considered fair game to go after one's private life.

[TailHeavy]

Originally posted by Eric Swenson:
Send the money to anyone else, i want a new President..one that has a brain that works.
Who said C students make great Presidents?
Or better yet, bush can use my refund to take a few public speaking classes (after the brain is inserted)

Eric ...think about it. Graduating from Harvard with a "C" average doesn't sound easy to me. Maybe you have done much better at college than that, and that's why you feel that people like me with a "C" average aren't smart enough to appoint and lead people.

[NipponDave]

Music to my ears, Newbie.

[SassyCat]

Originally posted by Mark Wood [groundloop]:
Hang in there, Logan5. After 100 posts or so the discussion usually loops back to where it started. Kinda like fashions if you want to wait 30 years to wear those bell bottoms you've had stashed in the closet.

mw

Is this at 100 posts yet???
Logan I know what u mean. Sometimes you just want to write. (NO DEBATE, it's just a SIMPLE QUESTION!!!)

Yup, my bellbottoms are in my closet just waiting till their in style again, for the.. 4th or 5th time???

Sass

[DeaninMilwaukee]

"And I highly doubt most liberals are atheists. I strenuously charge you with the responsibility of proving that with verifiable research or retracting your erroneous statement. I'm sure studies have been done and the information is available. "

If your sure, why did'nt you quote from one or more? Geez, talk about passing the buck.
I know of no such studies, and if there were, how accurate could they be since they'de be based on volenteered info.
Perhaps I was a little rash saying prob the majority of liberals were athiest, as I was just going on gut instinct based on the many things I see liberals as being in favor of, ie abortion and no school prayer among other well known examples.
I guess I'm just a simple guy who judges people and groups by their actions instead of their stated goals.

[Mark Wood]

AAAOOOOGAAAA! Off Off Topic alert called on Steve.
2 demerits.

mw