sooo....what'cha gonna get with your refund? - Page 2

partoftheproblm · Jun 15, 2001, 01:25 AM

Send the money to anyone else, i want a new President..one that has a brain that works.
Who said C students make great Presidents?
Or better yet, bush can use my refund to take a few public speaking classes (after the brain is inserted)

NewbieX · Jun 15, 2001, 03:16 AM

Let's face it. Both the democraps and the republicapitals are singing a little, happy, damned song, while they both give GE, Ford, Viacom and so many others the keys to the castle.

It's ridiculous that between the media giants, the manufacturing giants and the political giants, the american people are broken into demographics and conquered through emotion, belief, tradition, repetition and need (among other things I can't even think of right now).

Either way, lives roles on, ...$600, $257 or $0, whether it will be spent on a childs new school pants or 1/4 of another bottle of champagne.

I'm amazed.

John Zook · Jun 15, 2001, 08:50 AM

It seems as though people don't realise what this tax cut really is like. If they really knew I suspect most people would feel suckeredand deceived. bush's tax plan is the biggest joke, with it's phase in and phase out and most people don't realise that these cuts don't come into effect for several years 2006, as well as the so called marriage penalty and estate tax in 2009 then phased out in2010. Happy landing.
It's hard to determine if it was Geo. Bush that was elected or Dan Quayle. I guess the only difference is bush is from Texas.

Feodosia Flyer · Jun 15, 2001, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by me11owman:
Buy gas for the Truck.....

With my $ 600 I was going to buy 24 Litestick planes

But with Bush letting gas going up to $3.00 a gallon I might have to buy a moped to get to work instead

Bill Harris · Jun 15, 2001, 12:37 PM

I'll believe it when I get it. We got snookered be his daddy's "lip reading act" a few years back...

--Bill

DeaninMilwaukee · Jun 15, 2001, 06:01 PM

"But with Bush letting gas going up to $3.00 a gallon "

Letting? What, do you think he can stop it by presidential decree?

The only way to drop prices is to up supply.

If you were the prez, how would YOU up supply?

SchiessCo · Jun 15, 2001, 06:21 PM

I'll put it in the fund to buy a new fuel efficient econobox to replace my truck. Hope those gas prices keep rising!

Pete

me11owman · Jun 15, 2001, 07:25 PM

Well Dean ....They could put every penny of this tax cut into renewable energy tax credits....to provide for energy sources less susceptable to manipulation.....(But that wouldn't be a good payback to his finacial backers would it?

) I would gladly give up my refund for that......

[This message has been edited by me11owman (edited 06-15-2001).]

DeaninMilwaukee · Jun 15, 2001, 07:59 PM

Energy credits are just a temporary stopgap that does nothing to solve the basic problem while causing its own special set of new problems.
The problem is there is no viable alternative to oil, and we are speaking theoretically here. Nothing else has the energy density that oil does save uranium. Throwing research dollars at the problem won't change that fact.
Less than 1/2 of our oil is produced by our country.
We are therefore at the mercy of world prices for oil, ie the only control we have is increasing production. Any solutions that don't address this basic problem are'nt really solutions at all.

"I would gladly give up my refund for that......"

Whats stopping you. Send yours to the dems. BTW, does'nt it bother you that the dems never actually SOLVE any of the issues they champion?

Feodosia Flyer · Jun 15, 2001, 08:17 PM

Dean, Increase supply ? How about lower demand ?

Mellowman hit the nail on the head....incentives for the energy-thrifty, something we've needed for a long, long time.

Hey ! Mr.Bush wouldn't happen to know a few rich Texan oilmen that he has to take care of, would he ??

Ok, if you see me on the road with my moped, just remember that we have to share the road equally....don't run me over please.

Feodosia Flyer · Jun 15, 2001, 08:31 PM

"Less than 1/2 of our oil is produced by our country"

We produce all the oil we actually need...
The problems are that we are culturally terrible wasters .....let's face it,we have an unhealthy relationship with the automobile..here's one GREAT example..
I live in pan-cake flat south New Jersey that gets about a grand total of 4 inches of snow in a year..... now, why does every yuppy household have at least one or two gas guzzling ATV's in each driveway ? What the h*** do they need with those things in this state ? A double-transmission station wagon that drinks up at least double the amount of gasoline, big deal .... If they want to look like they are sitting high and pretty they can buy a 4 cylinder normal station wagon and jack it up, ha !

DeaninMilwaukee · Jun 15, 2001, 08:40 PM

"Dean, Increase supply ? How about lower demand ?
Mellowman hit the nail on the head....incentives for the energy-thrifty, something we've needed for a long, long time."

Lower demand? The only way to do this is to raise prices, either directly (pump prices)or indirectly.(energy credit schemes).
I notice gas prices have gone up what, about 75% in the last two years? Demand still has'nt gone down. Just how high are you willing to have gas prices go?
Are'nt you afraid how this would affect the least fortunate among us, the people who can't afford the newer high milage cars, who may be lucky to have any car at all?
Thats not a very compassionate view.
Is this whats liberalism is really about?

windsurfer · Jun 15, 2001, 11:08 PM

Just remember you suckers that it is UP TO 300 single/600 married. YMMV. It'll probably be more like 20.00.

You've been paying too much in taxes to pay off the F%$#@ng debt that Reagan/Daddy Bush created with "Voodoo Economics" (George Sr.'s quote, not mine) and the original "Star Wars" program. HEY LOOKIE HERE George W. is doing it all over again.

Thanks, but no thanks.

me11owman · Jun 16, 2001, 02:56 AM

Actually my idea is to displace some oil usage with solar, wind and geo thermal and that old buggabo.....(dare I say it...) Conservation!!....that would lessen demand pressure for oil...but only if supported in the same manner as the other energy sources...(tax incentives and or credits...just like oil or nuclear gets now???)

DeaninMilwaukee · Jun 16, 2001, 09:53 AM

"Actually my idea is to displace some oil usage with solar, wind and geo thermal"

The only one that has a functional chance for home use is a photovoltaic grid on a house charging a large bank of batteries and then converted back to ac as the homeowner needs. During long periods of no sun, the batteries could be charged during off peak hours from the power grid. The prob with this of course is the cost. A system large enough to have a chance at running the house would be over $10,000. The componenets do not have an unlimited life span, and therefore will never come close to breaking even on a cost/kw to just staying hooked up to the grid.

Wind could be used in much the same fashion and is cheaper than photovoltaic would be, but is fairly noisy for residential use and many geographical areas would'nt have enough wind anyway.

Geothermal also can only be used in certain areas. Very expensive install cost. Not practical for most home use.

" and that old buggabo.....(dare I say it...) Conservation!!....that would lessen demand pressure for oil...but only if supported in the same manner as the other energy sources...(tax incentives and or credits...just like oil or nuclear gets now???) "

See my previous post on tax credits.
People will not conserve unless its actually cheaper. Tax credits DO NOT make it cheaper, it just shifts the cost to some other poor slob.

If a new technology is to be considered superior, it must beat the old technology on a level playing field. If it can't, it should not be adopted.

BTW, one technology that could give California a significant boost if adopted on a widespread basis is a simple batt storage system that uses cheaper off peak power to charge batts to run the home during peak hours. Without any tax credits or any other goverment incentive, it would make financial sense for homeowners to buy these systems just to take advantage of cheaper off peak power.
The end result of course is peak load is taken off the power grid resulting in less blackouts. Of course the people with the batt systems will not be suffering throught the blackouts either.
Its funny how the news seems to address more power plant capacity as the only possible solution.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Discussion What are we gonna do with your Carbon Tow?	Mr B....	Thermal	6	May 07, 2006 11:58 PM
What “resting voltage” do you get with your Lipo charger?	IA-Flyer	Batteries and Chargers	0	Sep 26, 2004 04:15 PM
What Motor Did You Get With Your EASY BUG ?	Martyn McKinney	Foamies (Kits)	0	Nov 09, 2003 11:07 PM
What are you powering with your Mega??	Flying Low	Foamies (Kits)	2	Sep 17, 2002 08:49 PM
Foam Conversions: What did you do with your $4?	watersharer	Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk	22	Aug 06, 2001 07:39 PM

Jun 15, 2001, 01:25 AM	#16
partoftheproblm Registered User Join Date: May 2000 Posts: 754	Send the money to anyone else, i want a new President..one that has a brain that works. Who said C students make great Presidents? Or better yet, bush can use my refund to take a few public speaking classes (after the brain is inserted)

Jun 15, 2001, 03:16 AM	#17
NewbieX Human Like You Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,516	Let's face it. Both the democraps and the republicapitals are singing a little, happy, damned song, while they both give GE, Ford, Viacom and so many others the keys to the castle. It's ridiculous that between the media giants, the manufacturing giants and the political giants, the american people are broken into demographics and conquered through emotion, belief, tradition, repetition and need (among other things I can't even think of right now). Either way, lives roles on, ...$600, $257 or $0, whether it will be spent on a childs new school pants or 1/4 of another bottle of champagne. I'm amazed.

Jun 15, 2001, 08:50 AM	#18
John Zook Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Central Lake, Mi. USA Posts: 263	It seems as though people don't realise what this tax cut really is like. If they really knew I suspect most people would feel suckeredand deceived. bush's tax plan is the biggest joke, with it's phase in and phase out and most people don't realise that these cuts don't come into effect for several years 2006, as well as the so called marriage penalty and estate tax in 2009 then phased out in2010. Happy landing. It's hard to determine if it was Geo. Bush that was elected or Dan Quayle. I guess the only difference is bush is from Texas.

Jun 15, 2001, 12:37 PM	#20
Bill Harris Shrug... Join Date: May 2000 Location: Backwoods Alabama Posts: 2,925	I'll believe it when I get it. We got snookered be his daddy's "lip reading act" a few years back... --Bill

Jun 15, 2001, 06:01 PM	#21
DeaninMilwaukee Motors beat engines! Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin, United States Posts: 4,355	"But with Bush letting gas going up to $3.00 a gallon " Letting? What, do you think he can stop it by presidential decree? The only way to drop prices is to up supply. If you were the prez, how would YOU up supply?

Jun 15, 2001, 06:21 PM	#22
SchiessCo all your base Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: North Hills Posts: 5,991	I'll put it in the fund to buy a new fuel efficient econobox to replace my truck. Hope those gas prices keep rising! Pete

Jun 15, 2001, 07:25 PM	#23
me11owman Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Tucson, AZ, USA Posts: 759	Well Dean ....They could put every penny of this tax cut into renewable energy tax credits....to provide for energy sources less susceptable to manipulation.....(But that wouldn't be a good payback to his finacial backers would it? ) I would gladly give up my refund for that...... [This message has been edited by me11owman (edited 06-15-2001).]

Jun 15, 2001, 07:59 PM	#24
DeaninMilwaukee Motors beat engines! Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin, United States Posts: 4,355	Energy credits are just a temporary stopgap that does nothing to solve the basic problem while causing its own special set of new problems. The problem is there is no viable alternative to oil, and we are speaking theoretically here. Nothing else has the energy density that oil does save uranium. Throwing research dollars at the problem won't change that fact. Less than 1/2 of our oil is produced by our country. We are therefore at the mercy of world prices for oil, ie the only control we have is increasing production. Any solutions that don't address this basic problem are'nt really solutions at all. "I would gladly give up my refund for that......" Whats stopping you. Send yours to the dems. BTW, does'nt it bother you that the dems never actually SOLVE any of the issues they champion?

Jun 15, 2001, 08:17 PM	#25
Feodosia Flyer Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Central NJ Posts: 708	Dean, Increase supply ? How about lower demand ? Mellowman hit the nail on the head....incentives for the energy-thrifty, something we've needed for a long, long time. Hey ! Mr.Bush wouldn't happen to know a few rich Texan oilmen that he has to take care of, would he ?? Ok, if you see me on the road with my moped, just remember that we have to share the road equally....don't run me over please.

Jun 15, 2001, 08:31 PM	#26
Feodosia Flyer Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Central NJ Posts: 708	"Less than 1/2 of our oil is produced by our country" We produce all the oil we actually need... The problems are that we are culturally terrible wasters .....let's face it,we have an unhealthy relationship with the automobile..here's one GREAT example.. I live in pan-cake flat south New Jersey that gets about a grand total of 4 inches of snow in a year..... now, why does every yuppy household have at least one or two gas guzzling ATV's in each driveway ? What the h*** do they need with those things in this state ? A double-transmission station wagon that drinks up at least double the amount of gasoline, big deal .... If they want to look like they are sitting high and pretty they can buy a 4 cylinder normal station wagon and jack it up, ha !

Jun 15, 2001, 08:40 PM	#27
DeaninMilwaukee Motors beat engines! Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin, United States Posts: 4,355	"Dean, Increase supply ? How about lower demand ? Mellowman hit the nail on the head....incentives for the energy-thrifty, something we've needed for a long, long time." Lower demand? The only way to do this is to raise prices, either directly (pump prices)or indirectly.(energy credit schemes). I notice gas prices have gone up what, about 75% in the last two years? Demand still has'nt gone down. Just how high are you willing to have gas prices go? Are'nt you afraid how this would affect the least fortunate among us, the people who can't afford the newer high milage cars, who may be lucky to have any car at all? Thats not a very compassionate view. Is this whats liberalism is really about?

Jun 15, 2001, 11:08 PM	#28
windsurfer El Queso Grande Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Rippin in Hood River, OR, USA Posts: 1,139	Just remember you suckers that it is UP TO 300 single/600 married. YMMV. It'll probably be more like 20.00. You've been paying too much in taxes to pay off the F%$#@ng debt that Reagan/Daddy Bush created with "Voodoo Economics" (George Sr.'s quote, not mine) and the original "Star Wars" program. HEY LOOKIE HERE George W. is doing it all over again. Thanks, but no thanks.

Jun 16, 2001, 02:56 AM	#29
me11owman Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Tucson, AZ, USA Posts: 759	Actually my idea is to displace some oil usage with solar, wind and geo thermal and that old buggabo.....(dare I say it...) Conservation!!....that would lessen demand pressure for oil...but only if supported in the same manner as the other energy sources...(tax incentives and or credits...just like oil or nuclear gets now???)

Jun 16, 2001, 09:53 AM	#30
DeaninMilwaukee Motors beat engines! Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin, United States Posts: 4,355	"Actually my idea is to displace some oil usage with solar, wind and geo thermal" The only one that has a functional chance for home use is a photovoltaic grid on a house charging a large bank of batteries and then converted back to ac as the homeowner needs. During long periods of no sun, the batteries could be charged during off peak hours from the power grid. The prob with this of course is the cost. A system large enough to have a chance at running the house would be over $10,000. The componenets do not have an unlimited life span, and therefore will never come close to breaking even on a cost/kw to just staying hooked up to the grid. Wind could be used in much the same fashion and is cheaper than photovoltaic would be, but is fairly noisy for residential use and many geographical areas would'nt have enough wind anyway. Geothermal also can only be used in certain areas. Very expensive install cost. Not practical for most home use. " and that old buggabo.....(dare I say it...) Conservation!!....that would lessen demand pressure for oil...but only if supported in the same manner as the other energy sources...(tax incentives and or credits...just like oil or nuclear gets now???) " See my previous post on tax credits. People will not conserve unless its actually cheaper. Tax credits DO NOT make it cheaper, it just shifts the cost to some other poor slob. If a new technology is to be considered superior, it must beat the old technology on a level playing field. If it can't, it should not be adopted. BTW, one technology that could give California a significant boost if adopted on a widespread basis is a simple batt storage system that uses cheaper off peak power to charge batts to run the home during peak hours. Without any tax credits or any other goverment incentive, it would make financial sense for homeowners to buy these systems just to take advantage of cheaper off peak power. The end result of course is peak load is taken off the power grid resulting in less blackouts. Of course the people with the batt systems will not be suffering throught the blackouts either. Its funny how the news seems to address more power plant capacity as the only possible solution.