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Old May 13, 2011, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by toolman207 View Post
I hear what your saying mate my whole point is that humans arent fast enough to really feel the different as some might suggest. Flying a plane or not.
if everything was "event-->see-->react", then yes, you're 100% correct. However, outside of reacting to turbulence or something that is actually a blind event, all of the flying we do is based on timing our inputs to things we're watching happen... which is a different ball of wax completely...
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Old May 13, 2011, 12:33 AM
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Australia, VIC, Bendigo
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Originally Posted by theKM View Post
um, it's "simple" yes, but it doesn't in any way reflect how we fly our planes. My point is that when people mostly complain of latency, they're complaining about maneuvers and events that they're watching and timing their inputs to arrive at the same point as the plane at a given time exactly as I described earlier ...the perfect example is a fast rotating roll where you want to stop on point. a snap roll, a fast hesitation roll. these maneuvers we watch the plane rotate and when it gets to the attitude we want we release the sticks. We get to watch the plane arrive at this point so we can judge exactly when we need to release the sticks. Most people avid about aerobatics can do this, it's not a magic trick nor even a particularly hard skill to pick up... but if our timing is delayed again by latency, then we wont be stopping where we intended for a whole range of maneuvers.
So your trying to tell me you could think about what you want your plane to do and then input that into your transmitter in around 22 ms? lol ok fair enough it's time for me to give up on this coz it's just getting ridiculas lol
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Old May 13, 2011, 12:45 AM
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theKM's Avatar
central PA.
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Originally Posted by toolman207 View Post
So your trying to tell me you could think about what you want your plane to do and then input that into your transmitter in around 22 ms? lol ok fair enough it's time for me to give up on this coz it's just getting ridiculas lol
no, that's not what I'm saying at all.

When I go to fly a snap roll and I want it to stop in knife edge... I'm watching the plane rotate around and I'm judging releasing the sticks at the point it arrives into that knife edge position. this is not the toughest skill to master. It's the same skill that allows drummers to strike beats from visual marks, allows orchestras to stay in time with the conductor (perfect example, anyone being off by the smallest fraction you will hear it)... kids do it all the time when they play Dance Dance Revolution, playing Rock Star on the play station, it happens every day with things we watch unfold and try to time our reactions... and with practice we can get pretty close to being spot on every time.


what you are trying to describe is that if I started the snap roll and closed my eyes and if there was some magic beep from the radio that told me when I was in knife edge so I can release this sticks. this is a blind event we have no idea when it will happen, and would be something that I would miss by a wide margin just as you're suggesting. But we don't fly this way, so it makes the blind reaction test not even relate to the topic at hand...
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Old May 13, 2011, 01:02 AM
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Australia, VIC, Bendigo
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Originally Posted by theKM View Post
no, that's not what I'm saying at all.

When I go to fly a snap roll and I want it to stop in knife edge... I'm watching the plane rotate around and I'm judging releasing the sticks at the point it arrives into that knife edge position. this is not the toughest skill to master. It's the same skill that allows drummers to strike beats from visual marks, allows orchestras to stay in time with the conductor (perfect example, anyone being off by the smallest fraction you will hear it)... kids do it all the time when they play Dance Dance Revolution, playing Rock Star on the play station, it happens every day with things we watch unfold and try to time our reactions... and with practice we can get pretty close to being spot on every time.


what you are trying to describe is that if I started the snap roll and closed my eyes and if there was some magic beep from the radio that told me when I was in knife edge so I can release this sticks. this is a blind event we have no idea when it will happen, and would be something that I would miss by a wide margin just as you're suggesting. But we don't fly this way, so it makes the blind reaction test not even relate to the topic at hand...
I'm talking about human reaction time in general this was just one example and with reaction time there are many different scenarios. Once again who cares about what maneuver your doing you still have to be fast enough to say I want the plane to go here and do this and then input that into the sticks on the TX. Also Im not talking about playing the drums with visual effects ect.. we are talking about people who say they can feel the differecnce from a module that works at EG 45ms and another at 25ms. Im saying that if we arent fast enough to process what you want the plane to do and put that into your TX in EG 22ms how could anyone tell the difference between the two.So what I’m trying to say that for the most human reaction would seem more probable than anything else when we are talking about the smallest of margins.
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Old May 13, 2011, 01:22 AM
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central PA.
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well, I think you're misundrstanding the nature of how we fly planes with intent (any time you want to perform something specific), and underestimating the human ability to time their actions (not reactions, but actions) based on events they see are about to happen with a visual cue...
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Old May 13, 2011, 01:41 AM
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Australia, VIC, Bendigo
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Originally Posted by theKM View Post
well, I think you're misundrstanding the nature of how we fly planes with intent (any time you want to perform something specific), and underestimating the human ability to time their actions (not reactions, but actions) based on events they see are about to happen with a visual cue...
Please once again I'm talk about HUMAN REACATION TIME I gave you one example before there are many. So you’re saying that as long as you've got the fastest RF link you don’t have to have any situational awareness reaction time at all? If you answer yes to this my whole argument is that we still can’t process things as quick it's required to make all the difference. It’s pretty simple to understand. I've sat here and read countless times where people are talking about latency and I have said nothing and have took it on board as it's their opinion as this is my opinion.
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Old May 13, 2011, 02:03 AM
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Wrend's Avatar
United States, IL
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Please once again I'm talk about HUMAN REACATION TIME...
Which is mostly irrelevant to this discussion concerning radio latency.
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Old May 13, 2011, 02:08 AM
myp
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Having followed the latency discussion last year and having read through the last few pages, I think theKM explained it best. I remember spending many flights practicing rolling circles and I definitely timed my stick movements. So, if someone had been using a transmitter with a much lower latency than the A9, I could believe that they would noticed a difference as their timing would be off.

Now having said that, since timing is something you learned and practiced, even someone who had a fast transmitter prior to the A9 would eventually learned to change his timing to accommodate the larger latency of the A9.
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Old May 13, 2011, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Wrend View Post
Which is mostly irrelevant to this discussion concerning radio latency.
This is a forum open for discussion the latency thing is just as annoying as me banging on about human reaction time deal with it.
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Old May 13, 2011, 02:15 AM
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United States, IL
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Now having said that, since timing is something you learned and practiced, even someone who had a fast transmitter prior to the A9 would eventually learned to change his timing to accommodate the larger latency of the A9.
The maximum latency of some radios is even faster than the range of latency consistency of the Aurora 9.

Regardless, I think the latency characteristics of the Aurora 9 aren't going to cause significant issues for the majority of people, but that doesn't mean they aren't there.
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Old May 13, 2011, 02:58 AM
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United States, OH, Hiram
Joined Jun 2010
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Originally Posted by toolman207 View Post
This is a forum open for discussion the latency thing is just as annoying as me banging on about human reaction time deal with it.
The KM is right on, sport flying isn't effected due to the ease of it. When flying 3d its not how quick reaction time is but what ur prediction timeing is. KM was trying to say that u can see it and are making pre determined moves which is different than reactions.

A person can tell and will adjust to latency....just takes practice.

Haha "deal with it" - that was funny

This is a good discussion but hard to make clear in texts



Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
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Old May 13, 2011, 03:17 AM
most exalted one
BC Canada
Joined Aug 2002
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Originally Posted by toolman207 View Post
This is a forum open for discussion the latency thing is just as annoying as me banging on about human reaction time deal with it.
But you should search and read the same arguments you are presenting that were argued many moons ago. You have said nothing that hasn't been shot down previously.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...p#post15462944
BTW I don't feel latency affects my flying but repetitious arguments affect my time!
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Old May 13, 2011, 03:32 AM
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Australia, VIC, Bendigo
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Originally Posted by 4*60 View Post
But you should search and read the same arguments you are presenting that were argued many moons ago. You have said nothing that hasn't been shot down previously.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...p#post15462944
BTW I don't feel latency affects my flying but repetitious arguments affect my time!
Yeah you are right about the reptitious arguments affecting peoples times... so in saying that the numbers on the Aurora 9 arent going to change unless Hitec do something about it. so it is what it is and people should accept that and not bother with this argument.
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Old May 13, 2011, 04:17 AM
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svonavja's Avatar
United States, OH, Hiram
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Originally Posted by toolman207 View Post
Yeah you are right about the reptitious arguments affecting peoples times... so in saying that the numbers on the Aurora 9 arent going to change unless Hitec do something about it. so it is what it is and people should accept that and not bother with this argument.
Good Call.......Hitec Please address this latency issue/concerns with "data".
Not video showing that it's fast but hard data! Graphs, timed results ect.
And a general comparison (i would use the 8fg super). If the A9 has greater latency then show that and show how it can be improved, we all love this radio and want to keep improving it.

-Thanks!
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Old May 13, 2011, 04:48 AM
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Auckland NZ
Joined Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by theKM View Post
if the power supply for the servos is more reliable, why not just leave the plug out of the SPC port?...
Its not that its less reliable, but say my flight lipo goes Pop (1900mah getting 100+A sucked out of it) I loose Rx power.

If the Optimas had redundancy built in and could switch between both power sources it would be ideal.
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