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Old Feb 01, 2009, 01:56 AM
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carbonfibre's Avatar
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined Aug 2007
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Help running an F3F competition in New Zealand..Your advice please!

I have started hosting an informal F3F competition here in New Zealand - http://www.rcsoaring.co.nz/F3F_Results.html. We have had x2 rounds (two events) so far with about 8-9 guys attending. The guys seem to enjoy flying semi competitive - and it has certainly given a focus for some of us with our hobby. This is our thread on it: http://forum.rcsoaring.co.nz/phpbb/v...c.php?f=5&t=60

I have made a beeper system with 100m of wire with x2 piezo buzzers - built into a toolbox. We use orange electrical pipe (x4 meters each) for our pylons.The system works well.

Being very new to F3F too, I would be very interested in what your setup looks like. Can you guys please post some pics of your poles, buzzer setups and scoring systems?? Do you have a laptop on site to record results? I have downloaded a spreadsheet from somewhere to record results, but it doesn't seem to roll up on going season results - only rounds 1-10, which I presume are held over the same day or so. What about the next 'event'? Is there anything out there to roll these all up simply in the one spreadsheet?

Also, how do you 'manage' the actual racing? We combine our F3F during a 'slope fly-in' We have only been doing x3 rounds per event, as this still seems to take 2-3 hours to get thru. How do you guys make it run efficiently?

Is there a handbook or something out there that we can take a look at? I have checked out http://www.sloperacing.com/info/f3f.htm, but I presume there is more detailed info out there for setting up and running events.

Anyway, if you TopGuns can give us Kiwis a hand, I would really appreciate it..... Cheers

Mark
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Old Feb 01, 2009, 10:38 AM
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target's Avatar
Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Mark-

Each flight list rotation at race is usually called a "round"

Each day of flying several rounds is designated a "Race".

A whole series of races that are scored against one another, where the leaders' score becomes a score of 1000, and the others are less than that, is a "series".

I believe the rules require 6 competitors to start a race competition in F3F.
A race must have 4 rounds or more to be considered official.
The race may have one throw out round after 5 rounds are completed, and 2 after 15 rounds.

A safety (which is important to implement early on) is when someone flys behind the pre-designated "Safety line", usually a line from the CD to each base. It's important for all involved for the pilot to maintain control of his plane at all times for the safety of others.
If the pilot crosses the safety line, the CD shall give the pilot a 100 point deduction each time it happens in that round
If many safeties (3 or more?) are assigned to one pilot, the CD may disqualify the pilot from the rest of the race.

The pilot has 30 seconds to launch after the CD indicated he is ready for the flight to start. If the pilot is not launched by then, he recieves a "DNS".
If the plane is crashed during a run, he recieves a "DNF".

If you look at the bottom of this page, there are all types of similar topics on F3F, some will contain pics of the bases I'm sure.

Best wishes to the NZRL, New Zealand Racing League!!

If you get a chance, maybe you could talk Mr Joe Wurts into coming out and flying F3F with your group.... He's a very cool guy, and I'm sure if he had the time would love to race with you guys.

Best Regards,
Target
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Old Feb 01, 2009, 11:01 AM
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satinet's Avatar
Warwickshire, England
Joined Sep 2006
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only 2 or 3 rounds wouldn't be considered a race over here. The result would be void. While this doesn't matter for informal races, the rule is there for a reason. That reason being that too few rounds mean the conditions make it too much of a lottery.

With 8 or 9 guys you might consider flying a 2 rounds at once per competitor. by that I mean the 1st run is flown from a normal launch and the second from a crow through (although crow throughs can't be official FIA times). It's hard to run a comp with 8 or 9 because you are always back and forth between the buzzer and what have you, which slows it down and increases the work load. With your small field you should be able to get through a decent number of rounds in a day. If you combine with a slope fly in you're never gonna get 10 or 15 rounds though........

I don't really understand what you mean by orange tape. Over here we tend to use 2 poles one in front of the other. so that you can look down the line of the two poles to make your buzz, as the buzzer man.

in terms of scoring the season, the person who won a race gets 1000 points and the others get a proportion of that according to their score (say 1st place has 10000 points and second 97000, second gets 970 points for the race). So if there were 4 races with 1 discard and your top slope jedi won 3 out of 4 he would have 3000 points for the season and the others a proportion of that.

I'm assuming you understand the normal scoring method for a race having seen the spread sheet.



Speaking of the discards it's normal to have one "discard", where each pilot er, discards their lowest scoring round of a race.
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Old Feb 01, 2009, 12:07 PM
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United States, CA, Torrance
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Mark, as far as the poles used for the ends of the course, we use a single pole and use a series of ropes tied in line for sighting the end of the course. It is paramount that the sight lines be parallel, or the course can be convergent or divergent (meaning the course gets either larger or smaller as you fly farther from the pole). We use a compass for getting the course set up in that regard. Other than that, Target laid out good general knowledge for you. WD
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Old Feb 01, 2009, 04:51 PM
Its not IF... Its WHEN.
The.Timinator's Avatar
West Yorks
Joined Feb 2007
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Hi Mark

As one who has CDed a few F3f races over here, I can only give you this advice.

Get yourself a Jon Eddsion!
Tim

sorry - sliinks away with eyes averted...
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Old Feb 01, 2009, 08:24 PM
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonfibre
Also, how do you 'manage' the actual racing? We combine our F3F during a 'slope fly-in' We have only been doing x3 rounds per event, as this still seems to take 2-3 hours to get thru. How do you guys make it run efficiently?


Mark
Mark-

The order of the pilots should be known by all; the next pilot is ready, and he launches as soon as the previous pilot clears the course. If possible, the previous pilot will fly off course and stay off course and then land off course, and out of the way.
After landing, that pilot immediately "takes a base" for beeper duty, or the CD chair if needed if the CD is up to fly.
Any ballast changes are best made right before the next flight, anyhow....

It flows pretty smoothly if all work together.

T
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Old Feb 01, 2009, 09:19 PM
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carbonfibre's Avatar
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined Aug 2007
242 Posts
Hey thanks for this guys....I really appreciate it.

Ok, so the next pilot has 30 seconds to launch from the CD's call - then do they have another 30 seconds to fly up, gain height and start their run?

Yeah safety is always impt eh. Yep, I understand about the safety line. Can't quite visualize the sighting method you mentioned concreteman....We had a problem at our last race - where the Pole 'B' had to be over a gully - so the 50 m wire wouldn't reach. The buzzer man had to be 20 odd meters inside the course and sight out of the course...at least it was the same for everyone.... Be nice to sort the sighting system out though.

Orange tape? - No, orange poles - 4 meters high. We drive in reinforcing steel into the ground - then slide the pole onto it. Poles work cool.

Is the CD the same person as at Buzzer Station 1? Or do you normally have a separate CD - who stands in the middle??

Yeah it would be great for Joe to 'show us how it is done'....that would be awesome!!
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Old Feb 01, 2009, 09:22 PM
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carbonfibre's Avatar
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined Aug 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Timinator
Hi Mark

As one who has CDed a few F3f races over here, I can only give you this advice.

Get yourself a Jon Eddsion!
Tim

sorry - sliinks away with eyes averted...
Jon Eddsion ??
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Old Feb 01, 2009, 10:12 PM
Detail Freak
target's Avatar
Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonfibre
Hey thanks for this guys....I really appreciate it.

Ok, so the next pilot has 30 seconds to launch from the CD's call - then do they have another 30 seconds to fly up, gain height and start their run?

Yeah safety is always impt eh. Yep, I understand about the safety line. Can't quite visualize the sighting method you mentioned concreteman....We had a problem at our last race - where the Pole 'B' had to be over a gully - so the 50 m wire wouldn't reach. The buzzer man had to be 20 odd meters inside the course and sight out of the course...at least it was the same for everyone.... Be nice to sort the sighting system out though.

Orange tape? - No, orange poles - 4 meters high. We drive in reinforcing steel into the ground - then slide the pole onto it. Poles work cool.

Is the CD the same person as at Buzzer Station 1? Or do you normally have a separate CD - who stands in the middle??

Yeah it would be great for Joe to 'show us how it is done'....that would be awesome!!
Mark-

There are videos of F3F on Soaring USA's website; if you look at those, they will provide a lot of clues...

The CD is a seperate person from the base "buzzermen", and is in the center with the pilot.

Once launched, the pilot has 30 seconds to fly around, and be off course at base "A", then re-enter at base "A". If the pilot does not enter within the 30 seconds (Gets greedy climbing in a large thermal, for example), then the clock starts on his run anyway. This is what we call a "Late Start", and usually is a bad idea. I did once see a guy at Parker start 3 seconds late and record a 35 second run, though....

As for the bases, each of out poles have a line running from about 6-7' up, to a stake in the ground forward of that pole. The base buzzerman stands behind the pole, and "sights" down the line between the pole and the forward line.
The forward lines need to be at the same angle to the poles at each base, A and B.
The angle between the bases and these sight lines should be 90*.

When viewed from above, the course should look like a straight line, with two imaginary sight lines extending at 90* from the line between the bases. That should form a big square cornered "U" shape.....

T

PS. You can just see the sight line in the first picture, out of focus to the left of the pole.
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Old Feb 01, 2009, 10:27 PM
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carbonfibre's Avatar
Auckland, New Zealand
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Thanks Target - right starting to understand your setup....Looks like your sighting line is attached towards the top of your pole. So, how high is the pole total? Great pics.....thanks.
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Old Feb 02, 2009, 01:48 AM
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Fullerton, CA
Joined Nov 2004
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Mark

Are you anywhere near the Christchurch Flyers? They have run F3F, on thier calendar as well. They have a wonderful Timing System that records even laps times. Plus , they have one the best in the world hanging around to show em how.. Joe Wurts is not far.

http://www.nzmaa.org.nz/apps/event_list.asp

Dan
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Old Feb 02, 2009, 02:18 AM
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Auckland, New Zealand
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Yeah - there are some Top Guns down there for sure....no they are at the other end of the country......must try to hook up with them....cheers
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Old Feb 02, 2009, 03:33 AM
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Christchurch, New Zealand
Joined Dec 2004
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Carbonfibre, Jump onto http://www.chchsoar.org.nz for the chch boys. The setup is very good. It counts you down to the start, tells you your time at the end etc.... Great fun to fly with.
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Old Feb 02, 2009, 03:35 AM
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Auckland, New Zealand
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hey thanks mate - will take a look...
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Old Feb 02, 2009, 03:58 AM
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lesterpk's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Oct 2003
877 Posts
You also might want to publicise it in other places. As the president of an Auckland based soaring club can't say I or anyone I've asked know about your events. We have some timing and sighting systems from F3B events that could be adapted.
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