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Old Jan 29, 2009, 06:35 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Thunder Power Pro Power 40c 3S 3250 mAh

Here I go again. I started to add this one to the thread on the
Pro Power 30 3S 2250
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=948229

but changed my mind.

There is a post in the other thread with a lot of data on the new TP line up.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=35

More TP Data (ProLite V2)

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=22


I should also note once again that these discharges are a lot deeper than I am really comfortable with( the initail ones to 9.6). I still feel that limiting DOD to 80% (20% remaining)is much kinder to your expensive LiPolys.
LVC of 10.5 is yeilding 2770 range which is 85% . Still a little deep but not that bad IMO.

First charge was at 4A / second charg at 5A / fourth charge at 6 A . Kept increasing gradually and at charge 15 was up to 5C (16.5A) and plan to stay there except fot IRs checks at 6A.

Charge # 6 at 5A IRs 2.3 / 2.3 / 2.2

Charge # 25 IRs 1.5 / 1.4 / 1.4

Dsc # / capacity / Start Temp. / End Temp.
10 / 2787 / 75 F / 102F
14 / 2,788 / 78 / 103
17 / 2789 /
18 / 2789
19 / 2789
Three in a row exactly the same.

25 after 6A charge on CP10 2,831 mAh

Charge # 17 @ 16.5A / 14:47
Charge # 24 14:41 @ 16.5A


5-30-09 40 amp. cycles testing started Dsc 9 - 15 graph posted.
Dsc#10,20,25 graph added at 6:30PM

6-2-09 57 cycles graph posted.

8-11-09 D#70 added

8-12-09 Charge # 87 on Cell Pro 10 at 6 amps. for IR check Temp. 82F
1.6 / 1.6 / 1.6 mOhm.


8-12-09 Dsc graph 99 added:

9-19-09 Graph for Dsc# 70,87,99 and 127 added.

Charles
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Old Jan 31, 2009, 09:02 PM
Southern Pride
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I am going to try real hard not to confuse anyone. The graph above is for a 3S . The 4S is the same size except it is 1.125" H and it weighs 12.69 oz.

Today I flew the 4S in one of my GP Electro Sticks ,Scorpion 3020-12 , APC 12X8E .
I flew a seven minute flight with very limited WOT as it just has to much power. After the flight I put a watt meter in line and did a run up.
74.18A / 13.16 mininum volts / 990 watts peak and it held a steady 940 watts / open volts after flight and static test 14.73 (3.68 per cell). It required 2855 mAh to recharge so total of 87.8% of rated capacity was used. Average amp. draw for the flight was approx. 23 which is only 8.5 C for this battery .

Graph shows that at 70A a 3S holds 10.8V (3.6 per cell) even under a constant 70A discharge. 3.6X4=14.4V X 70=1008 so I have no doubt that WOT burst during the fligh was well over 1,000 watts. Poor little 800 watts Scorpion motor and 60A CC Phoenix ESC.

Charles
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Old Jan 31, 2009, 09:29 PM
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My goodness.

That's all I can muster at the moment.

How much closer to zero IR is even feasible? Rapidly moving into the realm of wire being a significant contributor to total voltage drop.

Mark
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Old Jan 31, 2009, 09:54 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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IR s for the TP Pro Power 40C 3250 mAh cells is in the 2s as in 2.3 / 2.3 / 2.2 according to Cell Pro 10 on charge #5 @ 5A.

The SMC 40C 3300s I have been testing are also in the same range . Charge #5 at 5A 3.2 / 2.9 / 2.7.

Charles
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Old Jan 31, 2009, 11:10 PM
Flying motor mount master
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Charles

Your discharge graph only shows ~22C max discharge.

How about a 40C discharge as advertised???


B
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Old Feb 01, 2009, 05:49 AM
Southern Pride
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Sure be glad to,there is only one small problem. that is 1,663 watts and I would need two more Cam Lights Systems CC-400 s which is a mere $750 or so. If that happens to be pockect change for you send it on and I will get the CC-400s on order.


The graph posted is 882 watts at the very start and over 700 watts substained. Also a 22c discharge rate means in the real world less than a 2- 1/2 minute flight.

I did see the big grin smilie and posted the above comments for those who missed it.

Charles
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Old Feb 01, 2009, 02:05 PM
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It really is crazy impressive, Charles. Especially how they stay so cool. It appears as though the only way to even get them up to a temperature to be even a bit concerned about is to dead short them, and that might not even do it.

I now know what I'll be buying when my 3 year old Saehan packs finally give up the ghost.

Now if we could just see into the future know how many cycles/years they'll last...

Mark
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Old Apr 17, 2009, 08:23 PM
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Based on the graph, look like the TP is now on par with Outrage pack. So, in a sense, they haven't introduced new technology...
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Old Apr 17, 2009, 09:29 PM
The Great Santini
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asm_
Based on the graph, look like the TP is now on par with Outrage pack. So, in a sense, they haven't introduced new technology...
Show me a similar discharge graph for outrage..
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Old Apr 17, 2009, 10:24 PM
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How refreshing to finally see a major jump (supported by test data) forward in the lipo area. Internal Resistance in the 2s wow!!


Charles thanks for sharing your test data.

Some questions about charge rates.

What is the max "spec" charge rate on these?
How fast do we think these things could really be charged?
Are these cells less prone to thermal runaway during charging?

Also wondering if Mr Wang could chime in and add more to how he was able to accomplish a perfomance breakthrough without giving away trade secrets.
Were these new performance standards due to a new seperator film,decrease in particle size, new chemistry mix?
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 08:48 AM
Southern Pride
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NOTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Charging at greater than 1C should be reserved for experienced users with proper cells,charger,balancers. My comments are just that.






Quote:
What is the max "spec" charge rate on these?
Thunder Power has tested some of the new ProPower 30 and 40Cs at 3C charge rates and life cycles did not appear any different than 1C charges. Thunder Power has endorsed 3C charging ever since the ProLite series when using the TP1010C / 205 or 210V balancers combos.

Quote:
How fast do we think these things could really be charged?
I would not be worried charging them at 5C if I had a charger with enough power but then I was charging some Thunder Powers at 4 to 4.5C over 3 years ago.
My rule of thumb is that if the cells do not increase by more than 10F during charge I do not worry about it if cycle life is unimportance to me.

I have contended for years that faster balance charging where the voltages are limited to a max of 4.235 per cell if less harmful to the cells than the other abuses we subject them to.

Thermal runaway. I have always thought this was greatly exaggerated by most. I have read the many post where a users claims the cell count was correct everything was normal and 3 minutes latter the pack was a blaze. I politely say BS. Most of the time a healthy cell has to exceed 4.5 volts to even puff during charging based on my limited experience during testing. A battery does not go from say 3.8*-4.0 per cell to 4.5 in a few minutes, not even at 3C charge rates.

To me 3C charging is safer as it is easier to watch a 20 min. charge than a 80 min. charge.. I only charge at 3C plus using high quality name brad LiPolys using a good charger / balancer. An incorrect cell count could get nasty very quick.


Cycle data provided to me by Thunder Power

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...49&postcount=6

Post with a lot of details on new TP lineup.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=35

Snip:

Quote:
Perhaps most interesting will be the differences in cycle life between cells that have been charged at 1C, 2C or 3C (and perhaps even higher rates) then discharged at the same rate. As a quick point of reference though, we’ve already cycled a 2250mAh PP30C cell by charging it at 3C (6.5 amps) and discharging it at ~15.5C (35 amps…similar to the maximum average discharge rate/current of a 450-sized heli being flown with the most powerful motor/rotor blades available and some of the most aggressive flying possible today) to 3.0V per cell. After almost 100 cycles the cell had only lost only 4.9% of capacity when discharged at 1C and compared to the first 1C discharge cycle, and approximately 8% of capacity when discharge at 15.5C and compared to the first 15.5C discharge cycle.
Charles
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Old Apr 27, 2009, 01:27 AM
Tragic case
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Well I am very interested in these cells for F5B and LMR glider use. Very interested. However they seem to be unobtanium right now. Does anyone have any idea on when they are expected to be available to the public?
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Old Apr 27, 2009, 06:14 AM
Southern Pride
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The new line has been shippings for a while now. One of the most reliable TP sources for me has always been

http://www.rcgroups.com/pages/splist/link.php?s=592

Charles
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Old Apr 27, 2009, 06:27 AM
Tragic case
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Charles

I beg to disagree. They don't have the 40C Propower in stock, other than in car formfactor. Neither does anyone else. The 30C one's yes but not 40C.

best
Dave
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Old Apr 27, 2009, 06:41 AM
Southern Pride
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I did not say they had them in stock,merely

Quote:
One of the most reliable TP sources for me has always been

In another thread Jason at TP) stated that they (TP)will be at SEFF with over 140 TP batteries. I took this to me 140 different combinations. The site I mentioned sas first come first serve and my guess if after this coming weekend the backorders will be much worse thabn they are now.
Charles
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