Originally Posted by Kiesling

???? The 2012 IHLGF and JEM will count as qualifier events (assuming they are held in or before June). I don't see what the problem is. There is a full years worth of contests to get qualified.

Regarding the next cycle, why would you assume that the qualification period will be the same duration? If someone feels strongly about changing the period for the qualifying events - especially if they are on the team selection committee, they should make a suggestion/reminder to the team selection committee chairman to do something about it

Tom

You are correct, as a team selection committee member, I should suggest that the Chairman do something about it. I don't really know how this slipped my mind. Perhaps that I wasn't thinking that a large chunk of the 2010-2011 contest season wasn't beign excluded from the list of potential TS Qualifiers.

I will be suggesting that the TS Qualifiers be a flexible period of time Starting after the TS contest, and ending in time to get the Next TS contest organized and held. This should maximize the amount of time that is available to hold contests to qualify pilots. I understand that the same people always seem to qualify, but while it might be true, it is not a reason to keep the Qualifier contest period from being expanded.

So, what would be stopping us from retroactively including the results from both the 2011 IHLGF held in May and the 2011 JEM held in January? How many more/different people would be on the Qualified list? Lets do it.

Mike

Will it be possible for a contest to offer candidates from subsequent years for the same team?

If we include those from May and June of this year, won't candidates from May and June 2012 also be elegible or will the cutoff also be moved back so that it will only be a single year?

Why should a contest date offer more than one attempt?

I think it should be left alone. So what, those contests will contribute qualified pilots in 2012 prior to the range of dates for the selection to occur.

for that matter, why not have qualification be determined only from 2011 and have all of 2012 to select dates from for team selection and then 2013 will both be another qualifier year and it will be a World contest?

Obviously this is not what they wanted so the powers that be selected a mid year to mid year date range to gain elegibility that started sometime after the world competition.

Last time, LISF's contest was one of the last to gain elegibility.

Does it really matter if you are first or last?

Exactly who is the TS Committee, and how is membership on the committee established?

Originally Posted by Fly2High

Will it be possible for a contest to offer candidates from subsequent years for the same team?

If we include those from May and June of this year, won't candidates from May and June 2012 also be elegible or will the cutoff also be moved back so that it will only be a single year?

Why should a contest date offer more than one attempt?

I think it should be left alone. So what, those contests will contribute qualified pilots in 2012 prior to the range of dates for the selection to occur.

for that matter, why not have qualification be determined only from 2011 and have all of 2012 to select dates from for team selection and then 2013 will both be another qualifier year and it will be a World contest?

Obviously this is not what they wanted so the powers that be selected a mid year to mid year date range to gain elegibility that started sometime after the world competition.

Last time, LISF's contest was one of the last to gain elegibility.

Does it really matter if you are first or last?

Frank, in my opinion it doesn't matter if you only use one contest, or you use two of the same contests in back to back years. The point is, at least to me, to have more contests, to get DLG competition involvement up, and to get more people a chance to Qualify. I see absolutely no reason to exclude contests. There is no reason why the league qualifier calendar can't start with the first contest after TS as a valid contest for Quals, and end with the last contest on the list that pops up that gives the Selected TS contest the necessary organization time. In other words, it should be a continuous program. One with very little interuption except for the TS - WC timespan.

Mike

Originally Posted by like.2.fly

I agree 100%. EVERY qualifying contest between the last TS and the next one should count for something and be included. Out west here I know the following events were completely overlooked for the next TS: Blue Skies Over Arizona 2010, Utah Red Rock 2011, JEM 2011, and IHLGF 2011. I'm sure there were some back east and other areas as well. Doesn't make much sense. If the TS contests are 2 years apart then I think that should be the qualifying window, not just a selected 12 month portion of it.

then you would have it where a single contest would offer 2 sets of qualified pilots each set from the 2 years.

Is this what you are suggesting?

I think it was stated that as time progressed, it wasn't more pilots qualifing but rather those with points just gaining more points so few if any new pilots were added to the list.

I do not see how increasing the time frame would add many more qualified pilots to the list?

If you want the 1 year window of elegibility for gaining qualifier points to be shifted, then suggest that. I only hope that this is not just for bragging rights or some reason that it is better to be first.

I think 1 year from the start of the month following the World championship is fine or there abouts. If you look at it, they started it while our team was already preparing for the worlds. I do not think it is fair for those guys on the current team but this way they only lost 2 months, not too bad. They could recover from the worlds and still have plenty of time to qualify again and be elegible for qualifiers next time.

I was wondering, if you were on the team the prior world contest, do you automatically qualify for the following year?

If not, I would like to propose that the current team (up though and including alternate) gain automatic qualified status for the subsequent year.

Can we get this pushed through?

Frank

We could make it easier and just say that any contest after the last Qualifiers till the next selection is elegible to gain qualified points for those pilots who place accordingly.

In this case we are suggesting a 2 year interval and for the most part all contests will offer 2 year's worth of contestants equally.

I am only arguing if one location could send , for a certain date, 2 different year's worth of qualifiers. I didn't think any location should be favored over another.

the only issue is that if you were to go from say 2010 June to 2012 June, those contests in June , July and August who have already been used for qualifying pilots will be used again but this would allow all date/location slots to occur 2 sets.

Otherwise, maybe we should institute your idea starting June 2012 on.

Speaking of Paul A, does anyone know how he's doing?

Charlie


I have zero issues with every contest being considered a qualifier using the current rules. The cutoff should (IMHO) just end the current cycle and begin the next cycle. As it is, pilots register and the fee goes towards the team fund. That's about the only thing that would require extra management.

Mike Smith's comments make the most sense to me. Let's do everything that we can to increase participation and get the most people qualified. The present one year time allotment from June to June is not optimal in my opinion.

I think that the geographic location of any contest doesn't mean too much either as far as who makes the final list. Many pilots travel a long distance to compete. Those that are determined, obviously try harder, and/or enjoy socializing in a larger community. This also encourages more locals to come, if indeed the long distance travelers are top pilots that raise the bar and share there expertise at the same time.

I also like the idea that the Team USA pilots (alternate & Juniors) to be automatically qualified as "Honorary" for all future TS events.

Let's promote a system that allows for the very best American pilots to make the Team.

Originally Posted by Launch-1

Mike Smith's comments make the most sense to me. Let's do everything that we can to increase participation and get the most people qualified. The present one year time allotment from June to June is not optimal in my opinion.

I think that the geographic location of any contest doesn't mean too much either, since many pilots travel a long distance to compete.

I also like the idea that the Team USA pilots (alternate & Juniors) to be automatically qualified as "Honorary" for all future TS events.

Let's promote a system that allows for the very best American pilots to make the Team.

I have to disagree. I think it is the minority and not the majority that travel over 4-6 hour drive to attend a contest. Of the top pilots, yeah they travel more than others but it is not the majority of DLG pilots who do. I can scan the ESL list and see that not many pilots travel all that far (just to pick somewhere I can see registration lists easily). Sure the top contests can get the top guys traveling but the vast majority of contests are more of the regional variety.

I agree that we want a system that allows the very best to make the team but we should be geographically fair as well. Does anyone know how the Olympic team is selected? Maybe we should model that. they ahve been doing it for alot longer than we have.

If you are concerned about those contests that were cut off this year, nothing says they cannot host additional contests during the cycle of time offered. They could just offer another contest and not have to wait till next year.

Originally Posted by Fly2High

then you would have it where a single contest would offer 2 sets of qualified pilots each set from the 2 years.

Is this what you are suggesting?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Fly2High

I think it was stated that as time progressed, it wasn't more pilots qualifing but rather those with points just gaining more points so few if any new pilots were added to the list.

I do not see how increasing the time frame would add many more qualified pilots to the list?

Huh? Not everyone can travel to compete in multiple qualifiers. On that same note, the pilot roster at one particular contest is not going to be identical from year to year. It doesn't matter if the same pilots qualify multiple times. I agree with Mike S. Having more events gives more pilots a chance to qualify. No disputing that fact.

Originally Posted by Fly2High

If you want the 1 year window of elegibility for gaining qualifier points to be shifted, then suggest that. I only hope that this is not just for bragging rights or some reason that it is better to be first.

I think 1 year from the start of the month following the World championship is fine or there abouts...

Why limit the qualifying period to just 12 months??? Especially since the TS and WC cycles are 24 months. Why not squeeze in as many qualifying events as possible between each cycle? The main point is that it makes no sense at all to disqualify multiple big contests that were held late last year and early this year because they didn't fall within the magic June2011-June2012 window. Heck, that magic window hadn't even been announced yet, and pilots at those events thought they were competing in qualifiers.

A question was asked earlier in the thread. Who is on the committee, and how do we make a suggestion?

My suggestion that the present one year calendar of June-to-June for the TS roster is too short, and limits the opportunities for maximum National participation. Let's have it run from the end of TS to future TS (make it retroactive too). AND, let's grant automatic participant status to former Team USA pilots.

..........it's not just the top pilots that travel long distances to fly in contests. I'm not proficient enough to make the TS, but this year I will fly in multiple F3K contests from coast-to-coast. I know other intermediate pilots that travel (often pay a lot to travel by airliner) a long ways too.

The 2010 TS had 50 pilots. I'm sure that we could easily double that number and run a smooth contest for 2012. The Bruce 2011 will have 90 pilots, and I'm sure that it will click along nicely.

I think that the geographic location of any contest doesn't mean at lot as far as who makes the final list, but numerous widespread contests promotes growth. Many pilots travel a long distance to compete. Those that are determined, obviously try harder, and/or enjoy socializing in a larger community. This also encourages more locals to come, if indeed the long distance travelers are top pilots that raise the bar and share there expertise at the same time. Everybody wins one way or another.

The more qualified pilots for the TS the better........and, the more pilots participating in F3K across America, the better.

Frank, not all people can make it to all contests, but some people will make it a point to make to some contests, and leaving out a big contest that draws some great talent, and better said pits some great talent against other great talent should not be left out of the mix due to an arbitrary call on the time perioud that the Quals contest must be held.

There is absolutely no reason why the same contest held in consecutive years could not and should not add to pilots to the TS Qual list.

And I too would vote to see that last year's WC team pilots are automatically qualified to attend the TS. What did we have last time? 30 guys from 52 qualifiers. Getting too many at the TS will most likely not be a problem.... So we will end up with 30ish qualified pilots that WANT to be on the US Team in 2013 planning on attending the TS.

No biggie at all, just want to see this discussed, or re-discussed as the case may be.

Mike

Originally Posted by Launch-1

A question was asked earlier in the thread. Who is on the committee, and how do we make a suggestion?
.

Tom K. (the starter of this thread) is the soaring TS commitee chair. If you have suggestions I would suggest you start by contacting him.

The committe itself has at least one member from each AMA district. This comittee serves for all of soaring (so also F3J and F3B). Mike Smith is a comittee member from his district. I think if you search the AMA website you can find out who is the committee member from your district.

Ryan

One reason not to open the flood gates is that where and who can host a very large team qualifier?

Sure it would be nice for everyone with a $20 burning in their pocket to be elegible to attend.

At the same tocket, it was already stated that one of the issue with the worlds was enough volunteer help.

Besides those lucky locations that put on large contests, who else can host a large team selection? You'll be limiting the number of locations that could host it. If I recall, there were only 3 locations that ofered to host it last time.

As for travel, I am not saying that only top pilots travel. I am only saying that the amount of traveling is not the kind requiring airliner assistance and typically is drivein no more than 4-6 hours.

I do not disagree with the more pilots the better but if we already saw the list max out well before the end of the last team qualifiers, what makes you think that having more contests will not have the same effect?

I want more pilots too but I do not agree that just by having more contests as the solution.


the only way you'll get more pilots qualified is if at each contest the number of pilots attending goes up and more points are awarded.