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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:58 PM
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United Kingdom, England, Windermere
Joined Oct 2010
199 Posts
Hi Dave, I built your Simple kite a few weeks ago, really enjoying it, i'll have to post you some pictures of the finished build, just wish it was a bit warmer out so I colud fly it...
I'm interested in having a go at the micro version, what power train are you thinking of..? I've some Champ/p51 gear lookng for a home...

Chris...
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 03:18 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
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The idea here is for the micro SU, P51, etc setup or for a 1-2 cell 5gm brushless, perhaps even up to a 10gm brushless..
The dimensions here give a lot of area, but providing the rods are thin enough and the covering light, it will fly ok...The low wing loading will give a nice floaty slow flight..max weight for flying wants to be sub 45gms... sub 30 will be best...for the 1 cell

Its strange really because using the same layout/dimensions and heavier rods and covering it makes for a great simple kite on a blue wonder motor.. keep it below 7oz ..200 gms...for the heavy model and it also flies great..
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 09:47 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
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I have made a lighter framework following roughly my drawing.. I used 2.5mm for the main fuzz rod 1.5 for the LE curve 2mm for the spars and 1.2 mm for the diagonal bracing

the shape is altered slightly... because of how I built it..
note... all rods are cut 1" over length then later trimmed..
Bindings are made by crossing rods, lashing with cord... (upholstery thread is super strong).. then fixing solid with fast CA

1...first I cut the main fuzz rod... and fitted the 16" rear spar to it at right angles and central..
2... I made a LE bow from a 1Mx1.5mm rod with the tie cord set at 16" long.. the tie cord was fixed at 1" in from each end of the 1M length..this is to fit to the rear spar
3....put some hinge tubes onto the rear spar..the yellow tubes in the pic, before you bind on the bow
4... the bow is now fitted to the spar at the location of the tie chord..the bow sides are bound and fitted so they are at right angles to the spar..they are held there at right angles while the CA sets the cord solid. this gives a better shape and more accuracy to the build

When that was done I noticed the curve made at the front end was fatter than my drawing.... a quick measure gave the solution.. a longer front spar at 11" rather than the 10" in the diagram... this fitted nicely...

5 ....the front 11" spar is cut and fitted
6... because I am going to use the shrinking material as a cover I now fitted diagonal bracing, I had 1.2mm CF rod so thats what I used.

things to note...
I use a cutting mat, which has squares on it to line up the rods.. its important that the kite frame is square and equal on both sides..
Note how you cross the rods, one side must mirror the other.... I try to have the rods which will take the covering material always on top of the pile .. as long as you mirror you will have a usable wing...
If you don't mirror it can be like having a twist built in since the covering material will be stuck to the rods.. one up and then one down on the other side puts the material at different heights..
When you make a bow for a bend always leave the cord in place..this takes all the tension of the bend.. if you cut this cord off the frame will get distorted from this tension.. If the cord gets in the way, and it sometims does, replace the cord in a better location and nice and tight before removing the old cord
On the build below I had to do just that, because the first bow cord was running too close to the rear spar and would have interfered with the hinging

That brings me to the pic shown... its nice and stiff , more than I expected , and the weight as shown is 11.7 gms

..
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 05:34 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
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new covering for light weight kites..

after using the Xmas film at 40 microns I was looking for a lighter material... so I bought a load of plastic carrier bags from ebay..these are 12 microns and they also do a heavier bottle bag at 18microns..
The cost is very low for 50 bags or 100......or 1000's
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2510547276...84.m1497.l2649
I made a frame for a test...
Some depron with a hole cut in, stuck on the plastic with UHU por, and used a hot air gun to shrink the film... the results were good although the hot air gun will melt the plastic if you are not careful....and the shrinking and possibly the heat from the gun caused the depron to deform slightly
The follow up was to use the elevons of the above kite. I stuck the material down, then used a digital modeling iron at 110 degrees to shrink the material.. the part was ironed resting on a flat surface.... this is the best method as the temperature is much better controlled and there was no deformation of the part..

these cheap bags are superior to the foil in that they don't tear easily, you can cut them and the slit doesn't get larger..with the foil any cut has a tendancy to run on, and it has to be taped to stop the run......there is good shrinkage, but its not excessive.. its drum tight.. the material also seems tough enough for very light kites
It will be worth a trial on the heavier grade bags...
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 12:35 PM
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Joined Jan 2013
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Larger with Gyro? Ideas?

Hello Ken and Dave, This is excellent. What are your feelings as far as building a larger model of Kens '09 Stinger design as far as what would need to be done regarding the thickness of tubing without over or under doing it? Say maybe a full 1.7m wingspan built to scale? Also do you think a modern day gyro may help her fly easier if one were installed on a larger version? Thanks for any input!!

Updated: 5 mins after this post. I suppose It would be best to read the rest of the thread to see which is the best final design to date regarding this style of kite. Looks like they have changed their designs since and Im at about page forty following your journey. I'll check back in. In the mean time my idea still stands. I'd like to go for the possibility of building a larger scale version but was wondering if that would open entirely too many cans of fresh worms for say a 1.7m attempt. Pros? Cons? Would any crash just be too much on the structure if a larger craft is built with slightly thicker CF? Thanks- I'll continue catching up on your journey later. Like a good book i cant put down. I only just found it yesterday and Im halfway through including breaking off and reading others threads associated with this type of flyer.
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Last edited by Nucc10; Jan 17, 2013 at 01:03 PM. Reason: Updated preferred approx size...
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 12:11 PM
DFC~ We Do Flyin' Right
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USA, GA, Atlanta
Joined Nov 2008
14,402 Posts
I am curious, if I wanted to make my own design where would I buy all the fittings and hardware?
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 02:33 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
nickchud's Avatar
Market Harborough
Joined Apr 2006
3,697 Posts
There's a good website called funwithwind.com

Have fun.

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Old Jan 19, 2013, 07:19 PM
IFO's are planes too
atone1's Avatar
Petersburg, Va.
Joined Dec 2008
432 Posts
bsbauman, here are the sites I use.
For carbon rods and tubes plus depron:
http://www.rcfoam.com/?gclid=CJCbw7L4p5cCFQMnGgod2kyP_A
I get my mercury CA from these guys too.

For Icarex fabric use http://www.kitesandfunthings.com/
I don't see it on their site but you can call Marieanne at 734 454 3760 10:00am -6:00. $15.00 per yd. All the other ripstop I've tried shrinks in the sun.
They have carbon plus the plastic kite connectors, but I lash all mine with kevlar
thread and CA it.

Wildrc.com sells covering too plus the IFO kits. http://wildrc.com/index.html
You can get a 24" x 41" pc of covering for $10. Dans IFO materials page is here.http://wildrc.com/htmlpages/orderairframemat.html

Motors and things I get from Headsup. http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/StoreFront

I glue my covering on with weldwood contact adhesive from lowes.
That about covers it.
Al.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 06:23 PM
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Thanks!!
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 01:08 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
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The problem with the bigger designs is the rods, they get bendier at lengths, so you will have to go tubes for stifness.. The cost of big complicated builds puts me right off now..
Do a sketchup drawing and work out your costs...

I am now going smaller, down to micro sizes .. I can get away with 2mm rods and below..for the micros, and built with a bit of thought they are turning out both light and stiff..

by crossing the IFO with a Bug ive made this.. MyFoBug version 2 .. using lighter rods...
The first version-1 at 17 inch span used fewrer rods of a slightly bigger size and if made with a stronger bag covering, would have been good at up to a 15 gm 2 cell motor setup..

This v2 getting covered with the 12micron carrier bag material...
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Last edited by davereap; Jan 25, 2013 at 12:27 AM.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 06:38 PM
IFO's are planes too
atone1's Avatar
Petersburg, Va.
Joined Dec 2008
432 Posts
nucc10, Dave is right about the cost.
I did a 53" ws IFO and it flew, but the thing warped or flapped in flight really bad.
I thought of adding control lines but the least little bit of wind would make the thing out of control as the surface area was large. Plus I would have one heck of a time getting it back to the runway to land.So if you go big make it stiff or you won't like how it flys. I'm use to the MKIII doing quick rolls and speed dives or just flat out aerobatics of the 3D kind.
So now I'm thinking of reducing the ws to salvage the airframe and covering.
Al.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 10:04 AM
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davereap's Avatar
Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
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These little versions are surprisingly stiff.. and could be the best way to go... I know big is impressive but it does give problems..
The little version-2 MyFoBug is done ... as usuall its over the weight I was aiming at.. but I did add extra bracing rods and wheels.. also I used plugable connectors blocks for the rx/esc/motor where direct soldering would save weight.. the area on this is 152sq" the AUW with a 5gm motor and 160 lipo is 35gms
I was thinking of lights, just a few, but I will see how it goes first of all

messing with the setup its now all working fine.. I have just found that better batteries make a vast difference to the power out of the 5gm motor.. I have a selection and the genuine parkzones are poor compared to the turnegy nano tech , one gets nearly to the hover, so 35gms thrust.. the turnrgy will go vertical quickly... yeh!!!
so now some lights are on the cards....

edit ...Now flown with a COG of 70mm back from its leading edge....very slow and easy, a step up from a vapor type it will loop , but when flown slowly is too slow in the roll..more power should get it rolling, but with our cold weather the bateries were not up to the job
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 04:40 AM
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Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Joined Aug 2006
624 Posts
Hi Dave, forgive my absense in this thread. You are still at it huh? Keep up the good work.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:41 PM
IFO's are planes too
atone1's Avatar
Petersburg, Va.
Joined Dec 2008
432 Posts
Hey Ken, Dave's gotten small minded as he gets older.
Look at what he building now, kites with 5 gm motors on them.
I'm with Ken keep up the good work.
Al.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 02:09 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
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Small minded..nice one...lol
I just run out of room, so the small models are all that I can fit in..
But seriously the micros are more small area fliers, for indoors or even outside on those warm calm evenings ..
Smaller kites are also much cheaper to make...

Ive been redrawing the basic simple kite type.. crossing an IFO with a Bug... and now its at v4
Version-4 is slimmer for a better roll rate, however after a mid air crash with the v2, I will keep the LE rod and outer curve using the 1.5mm CF rods

For the micros...
I am being super critical on both looks and construction. I want to get the weight down, keep it stiff and keep it at 1sqft or slightly above .....the version-2 above is not quite what I wanted, it looks a bit square on the wing...although I suspect it will go well enough
So Ive done another two redraws..

Version-3 at 17" span is similar in layout to version-4.... But v4 goes down to a 14" span without loosing any length...With v4 I want a faster roll rate

The large elevons drawn are for the micro kite which needs more control surface area because it flies so slowly..

Never over strain rod bends or any impact will snap them ..always have more bending available so the rods can still flex..
If your rods wont do a particular curve, use two smaller dia. rods tied together to make the shape... often two smaller dia. rods will be lighter
Note the zip contains a sketchup drawing file which is good for you to make changes to and for resizing..
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