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Old Feb 05, 2009, 03:38 PM
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Finally finished the NK3 heres a picture of it alongside the NK1 for comparison..
I used depron for the tails and skids underneath

also pic of NK3 lights on. The lights are below and seen through the fabric.
now I just need some nicer weather

edit 7 feb... just got some more lights this morning from china.. couldnt resist putting 2 blue/red flashers in between the V tails. They are cool melt glued in place and bent so as to illuminate each tail surface... the depron lets the light through nicely (not as good as fabric, but not bad). In the dark it works very well, lighting up the tail which is in the dark area of the picture, between the butterfly wings

pic 3 ..caught the bulbs on a blue cycle and the white depron fins reflect and diffuse the colour well
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Old Feb 07, 2009, 08:05 AM
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To find the COG for the NK3 I used sketchup to print it out at a smaller scale.
Cut it out from 3mm depron, then I used high power magnets to add the weight.
One magnet is taped down, the others can then be added easily, and wont fall off

I obtained a COG of 206 - 220mm measured from the front cross bar
Use 206mm to start and adjust from there..
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Old Feb 07, 2009, 11:25 AM
Lee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
Finally finished the NK3 heres a picture of it alongside the NK1 for comparison..
I used depron for the tails and skids underneath

also pic of NK3 lights on. The lights are below and seen through the fabric.
now I just need some nicer weather

edit... just got some more lights this morning from china.. couldnt resist putting 2 blue/red flashers in between the V tails. They are cool melt glued in place and bent so as to illuminate each tail surface... the depron lets the light through nicely (not as good as fabric, but not bad). In the dark it works very well, lighting up the tail which is in the dark area of the picture, between the butterfly wings
Dave

What is the wing loading and AUW. Are they fun to fly? They do look cool but some of the flat planes don't have enough drag and fly inconsistent in the air especially if they are a little heavy.

Lee
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Old Feb 07, 2009, 04:57 PM
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Lee

The NK1 and the nutball weigh in at 14.5 and 17.5oz respectivly..including a 1250 3cell lipo

wing loading on the nutball is 17.5/4.5 = 3.9 oz sq ft..(accurate)
............................NK1 is 14.5/6-7 = 2.2 very low and slow ...I need to redraw the sketchup plans here to get the areas back.. I cant remember them accurately, but it is large
The NK3 weighs 12.5oz with a smaller battery is 12.5/3.09 = 4oz sq ft (accurate)

The nutball flies like any nutball...highly recommended in any version..with loads of excess power..it will fly on a blue wonder but has twice that power on board...so it does go well.. check the climb away about half way through the video.

How does your snowball compare to a nutball ?..it looks good in the video and the lights work well

The NK1 is just nice to fly slow and easy, and manouvers well, not as aerobatic as the nutball, but has excess power in hand to go fast if you want.. But I like slow, hence the very easy hand catches in the video

The NK3 is not yet flown, but I expect it to be the fastest with a high rate of roll.. but with a lowish wing loading it should be able to go fairly slow

NK1 and NK2 nutball.....both are plenty of fun to fly...no problems either..
NK3 results will come...just waiting on the weather here to get out and have some more flying...
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Old Feb 07, 2009, 06:09 PM
Lee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
Lee

How does your snowball compare to a nutball ?..it looks good in the video and the lights work well
Dave

They are two totally different planes. The Snowball is about 16 oz AUW and the Nutball is a light weight.

I like the Snowball best not because of the flying but because of the ground handling with the floats. The Snowball can handle significant wind and being EPP can take the abuse. I have two more designs that also use the floats I like them so well.

The Nutball floats a little slower and can be made with more readily available materials. I think you need to make a kite of each. IF I can get through the 8 new planes on the workbench maybe I'' try a kite or two too.

The Capricorn may also be a good kite option.

Lee
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Old Feb 08, 2009, 03:24 AM
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Lee ..
The capricorn built with 3mm white depron would make an excellent night flier, Its shape lends itself lighting up, which I now see youve already done, (I am reading your thread and writing this as I go) where the best results are obtained with lights illuminating the surface from a distance rather than being tight against the surface.
I like it, and yes it will make an excellent kite as well....thats got me thinking,
...nice one..
edit... that shape is just excellent for a kitebuild. The W shape and straight edges just make it easy to fix whatever cross bracing is needed...
.I have now gone through this thread twice
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=898958

So here is my next project, a capricorn...I was wondering what to build next..thanks mate

The 6mm depron nutball I fly weighs 22oz and is 32" span. It is about 4oz overweight compared to another with different construction methods. But it flys superbly.

From my cane build, using a depron tail, I found, like you have, that the 3mm white depron is illuminated well by the lights. There is a lot of reflection and a fair bit of diffusion through the material.

I started building the kite forms rather than the depron planes because the fabrics let even more light through. This lets you arrange the lighting to make the appearence you see at night. Change the lights layout and your plane looks totally different. And so so pretty..

My main dislike with the kites is the cost of the Carbon rods, which is why I am playing with the cheapo split cane garden canes/rods. Now my construction costs are less than for a depron build.. And depron builds are cheap enough, even for a tight old *** like me.
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Old Feb 08, 2009, 08:03 AM
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I have test flown the NK3... There is no problem with the design and it will go much as predicted. It rolls fast but will fly slow as well

EDIT.... Do not use garden canes...even if you can build the kite nice and flat, they will later warp and your kite will not fly well

what I did have problems with was an underpowered engine..
and worse...warping of the cane frame..it looked ok but had a very slight twist that made it turn left all the time...b****.

I will have to think seriously about using cane rods on a flat design like this, its difficult enough with CF to keep it flat..
Maybe a design like the capricorn will go better with the cane rods, it can be braced against warps more readily, and is obviously a more stable design... anyway the cane rods are cheap enough to try at least..

I will bin the cane NK3 and use the radio gear and lights on the capricorn..

Then I flew the nutball... all trimmed for a nice flat glide hands off.. power up and it wanted to climb like mad and turn to the left..so I packed the mount to give more down and right but I couldnt get enough in.. There was a improvement but it needs the same or more again... so I am going to have to make some major adjustments to the thrust lines by removing and retying the motor mount tube..
Rest of flying great, this one rolls fast and loops tight.... all fine there..I do like the nutballs
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Old Feb 08, 2009, 09:52 AM
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Ive done some work towards the capricorn, the NK4-capricorn, putting it in sketchup and adding dimensions.. here is a view with dimensions, and the sketchup file is in the zip.. use the Google sketchup program to resize with ease...

.
edit
the pic now show the final design as it was made..one half is left uncovered so you can see the rod locations better. cut rods 1" oversize for binding..
COG at 8.25 from the pointy nose
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Old Feb 08, 2009, 10:17 AM
Lee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
Ive done some work towards the capricorn, putting it in sketchup and adding dimensions.. here are a few views and the sketchup file is in the zip.. use the Google sketchup program to resize with ease...
Great work. Larry designed the plane after seeing the Gemini. I simplified it for a single sheet of FFF. This is a slow aerobatic plane.

The material could go over and under the crosspieces. You don''t need the pointy nose for flying only looks. It does also help to move the CG forward.

I need to learn to use the Google sketchup or other CAD program and to airbrush. They are on my list of to do.

Lee
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Old Feb 08, 2009, 11:03 AM
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edited out
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Old Feb 10, 2009, 07:14 AM
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I have been building the frame and I am pleased with the job so far..
There have been a minor alteration at the front where I have made the change to get better efectiveness on the bracing. And there is another part where I followed the design build, but it would have been simpler a different way..
pic2.. you can see the free tubes on the cross rod..these can rotate and the elevons will be attached to them, using them as a hinge

The layered build is a bit like a box kite and the structure like this is far more rigid with hardly any twist. The other flater designs are much easier to twist, but it doesnt seem to matter when they are flying..
.
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Old Feb 11, 2009, 03:53 AM
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More pics of the framework. All done now, Ive added wheels as that was easier than floats and the framework made it easy, and some rear skids.
EDIT
make the legs longer than the pictures to give a better angle of attack.. 6" to the bottom of the wheels is better


I have cut depron elevons and rudder, to make the build easier, these are still to fit..
.
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Old Feb 11, 2009, 02:49 PM
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interested.

I use the slowstick as my night flyr now. But .. I like deltas. I was considering using my Maxi Swift or a Swift II, but they are too loud for night flying.

I'd like to just buy a kit .. not lots of time to cut up umbrellas and things.
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Old Feb 12, 2009, 07:19 AM
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The slow sticks can be lit up well, but the shape of the capricorn lends itself for better lighting..see the evolution thread.. the depron/FFFoam lights up well.
I am hoping the kite version will light up even better.
There might be kits of the depron/FFFoam version available, they do seem to be making them in bulk

I am still progressing with the build of the NK4-Capricorn (the flying W). Its covered, motor fitted, elevons, tail and rudder fitted.
Ive used the B&Q..6mm floormaster foam for the elevons and rudder, all tape covered to make stiffer.

Notes
Having the motor more forward similar to the capricorn evolution will make the cog much simpler to acheive..It can be a problem on these kites as they are tending to all build tail heavy...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=898958

Ive also been working on the NK2-Nutball this has needed more weight at the front to get the ballance, and adjustments to the thrust angles. Rather than add lead I have altered the battery platform position, and made it take a bigger battery. I also noticed that the elevator was loosing effect as the weight and speed and stress increased, similar to the NK1, so Ive added a couple more stiffening rods..
The control surfaces do need to be stiff, or they flex back under pressure..Its ok when flying normally, but get in a dive, pick up speed and you notice the controls loosing their efectivness
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